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4X8 VS NASCAR

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Posted by PASMITH on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:19 PM
Penskie and Posey at Lime Rock, mid 60's.

Peter Smith, Memphis
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Posted by ArtOfRuin on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:11 PM

Racing locomotives, huh? All of a sudden, those annoying "Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!!!" radio commericals came to mind. Does that Tyco set come with crossovers, or do you have to have staggered starts and finish lines like track and field events to keep things even? I can imagine the Hot Wheels-like havoc if the locos make it to the crossovers at the same time...

 I don't have much more than a 4'x8' space in my house to run my trains and even then it's not a permanent space. I guess one of the good things about snap-track is that I can keep mixing things up for each operating session. Once I get a permanent train spot, I want to make a switching yard layout with long spurs so I can connect it to a bigger layout later.

As for auto racing, I don't watch NASCAR unless its at Watkins Glen or Sears Poi... oops, Infineon Raceway. 200mph traffic jams don't really interest me. I much prefer rally, road racing, drifting, and autocrossing. Even better than watching racing, I've actually autocrossed, drifted (or at least tried to), and driven the NH International Speedway's road course on a track day. Once winter's over and I get a more competitive car, I plan to keep autoX'ing and road racing.

-Jonathan Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, Is just a freight train coming your way - "No Leaf Clover," Metallica
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Posted by on30francisco on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:16 PM
 secondhandmodeler wrote:

 

As for 4x8's, I enjoy watching trains go through the scenery.  I've come to realize that my layout is really more of a diorama that has a train going through it.  It's certainly not a model railroad at this point.  I'm ok with that.  I have been taking my time building it though,  I don't want to finish it.  That would ruin the fun.  

As I said in a previous post, I also enjoy trains going through scenery and past structures. I'm more of a builder when it comes to model railroading and enjoy scratchbuilding  unusual rolling stock, wooden structures, and scenery as opposed to prototype operations. My layout is more of a diorama with an oval and a few sidings with super detailed scenes, scratchbuilt structures, and unusual rolling stock.
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Posted by on30francisco on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:32 PM
My layout is small (for Large Scale), runs along the perimeter of a 12'x15" room, and is basically a large oval with a few sidings. I enjoy seeing the trains going round and round past structures and scenery. If I'm going to spot a car or pull in at some industry, I like the train to run a few laps before I do that operation. I may add a small yard with a small, wooden turntable in the furure. The layout probably isn't prototypical with 39" radius curves (very sharp for LS) but since it's narrow gauge, it probably is. Whatever, the most important thing is I really enjoy it and love building the rolling stock and structures that go on it. Despite what anyone thinks or says, the most important person you have to please is yourself. Since most of us are in this hobby for enjoyment, when the time comes that your layout is no longer fun and working or operating it turns into a chore, it's time to rethink your goals and do what you really like.
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Posted by Jake1210 on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:11 PM
 alco_fan wrote:
 SqueakyWheels wrote:

For what reason do you wrath then?

Huh? Dude, mix in some decaf.

FWIW, I find oval auto racing extremely tedious.

 

I agree. Whoopdeedoo. Some guy jsut went around a track for the 300th time at 200mph. yaaaaaay... Sign - Dots [#dots]

 

I prefer European Formula 1. Now THOSE ain't no sirkul tracks! 

 

And dirt rally! Can't forget dirt rally! 

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Posted by SteamFreak on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:47 PM
 AltoonaRailroader wrote:
 SteamFreak wrote:

Don't sweat it, Squeak. Model railroading can take many different forms and involve all sorts of different creativity, so don't let "The Man" get you down. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

In fact, here's an example of a different take on things. I guess this is how they do it in Norway.

Model railroad in livingroom

Wonderful!!! That's exactly what I want to do with my dad's old American Flyer train once I get my family room completed.(which at this rate might be a while) And I want to do a double, one running one way and one running the other so they pass. One is a passenger car set and I'll make the other freight instead. Can't wait!!!!!!

I love AF. Please post pictures or a video when you get it done. Cool [8D]Thumbs Up [tup]

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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:18 AM
 SteamFreak wrote:
 vsmith wrote:

I still think it would be alot of fun to do a 4x8 "racetrack", soup up your old engines with wings scoops and airdams and paint them up in NAStyCAR gaudy colors and race them roundy-round for cash!

I hate to break it to you, but it was done years ago by a company named Tyco. Clown [:o)]

NOOooooooooooooooo!!!!

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by AltoonaRailroader on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:00 AM
 SteamFreak wrote:

Don't sweat it, Squeak. Model railroading can take many different forms and involve all sorts of different creativity, so don't let "The Man" get you down. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

In fact, here's an example of a different take on things. I guess this is how they do it in Norway.

Model railroad in livingroom

Wonderful!!! That's exactly what I want to do with my dad's old American Flyer train once I get my family room completed.(which at this rate might be a while) And I want to do a double, one running one way and one running the other so they pass. One is a passenger car set and I'll make the other freight instead. Can't wait!!!!!!

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:47 AM

Scott:

I love your "Steasel".  Did EMD build them, or was it a local upgrade?      Laugh [(-D]

Did Ill Central run many of them?

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:12 PM
I think that MOST of the people who are not 4x8 fans (and I must admit to being one of them) are not really out to put down 4x8s or modellers who build 4x8s.  I general I think they are just trying (sometimes perhaps too aggressively) to point out that there are other options that you might want to consider.  A lot of people build a 4x8 first mostly because 'it's always been done that way".  Considering other options that may make different (I'm not going to say better) use of the space seems a reasonable thing to do, but a lot of people are not aware that other options are out there.  If after that, 4x8 still suits you, have at it.  Please don't take these posts as personal attacks, a lot of them are coming from people who have 'been there, and done that', some even have the t-shirt! 

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by zgardner18 on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:09 PM
 loathar wrote:

I don't like watching NASCAR tail chasers. That's why I watch NHRA DRAG RACING!!!Cool [8D]

It's more prototypical.Big Smile [:D]

I'm more of a SCORE kind of guy.  Nothing like all out dirt racing through miles of terrain from one point to another, and even some races that are loops.  Trophy Trucks with all out raw power just like your favorite locomotive moving with the conturs of the land.  It's a rush.

So I guess I like point to point and loops...........I'm good!

--Zak Gardner

My Layout Blog:  http://mrl369dude.blogspot.com

http://zgardner18.rrpicturearchives.net

VIEW SLIDE SHOW: CLICK ON PHOTO BELOW

 

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Posted by wm3798 on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:53 PM

Drat!  I thought this was going to feature layouts using my two favorite Christmas presents... a train set and some slot cars!

 

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by dale8chevyss on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:37 PM
I put a backdrop in the middle of my circular 4x8 to make it look like the trains don't follow themselves- they go from one town to another. 

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 Daniel G.

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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:52 PM
 SteamFreak wrote:
 vsmith wrote:
I still think it would be alot of fun to do a 4x8 "racetrack",
I hate to break it to you, but it was done years ago by a company named Tyco.
Those are really really hard to find.  I saw one at a garage sale several years ago and wish now I would have bought it.  At first I thought it was just a slot car set!
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Posted by loathar on Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:28 PM
 secondhandmodeler wrote:

As for 4x8's, I enjoy watching trains go through the scenery.  I've come to realize that my layout is really more of a diorama that has a train going through it.  It's certainly not a model railroad at this point.  I'm ok with that.  I have been taking my time building it though,  I don't want to finish it.  That would ruin the fun.  

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

Only, I want to finish mine...Big Smile [:D]

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Posted by secondhandmodeler on Saturday, July 28, 2007 10:24 AM

My wife is a rabid NASCAR fan.  In fact, we're driving eight hours to Michigan to see a race.  My only demand is that she does not complain about $6 beers, or anything else I need to occupy my time.  I never understood the racing in circles thing until I got into the stories behind the scenes.  I don't think it's any more boring than watching baseball on TV.  Blasphemy I know! 

As for 4x8's, I enjoy watching trains go through the scenery.  I've come to realize that my layout is really more of a diorama that has a train going through it.  It's certainly not a model railroad at this point.  I'm ok with that.  I have been taking my time building it though,  I don't want to finish it.  That would ruin the fun.  

Corey
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Posted by pastorbob on Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:35 AM

Well Nascar bores the heck out of me, I don't like going in circles.  I had the standard 4 by 8 when I first started in model railroading in 1958, but have graduated over the years to the current layout, which was started in 1987, and covers three decks in an area 28ft by 35 ft.  There isn't a loop anywhere on it, because I enjoy proto operations over watching a train chase its tail around the loop.  But that is me, and I certainly endorse anyone enjoying the hobby in their way, whether I would do it or not.

So Nascar can run circles, cats and dogs can run circles, I prefer a straight line.

 Bob 

 

 

 

Bob Miller http://www.atsfmodelrailroads.com/
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Posted by bcawthon on Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:41 AM

We're forgetting even one of the most famous layouts of all time, John Allen's Gorre & Daphetid, was a small pike in its first incarnation.

Some years back, some friends and I built an 8 X 12 (three 4 X 8s) layout for a real estate company to display in one of its buildings. We had not only a multiple loop for trains, but an oval slot car highway, as well. It was a lot of fun to build, operate and watch. Of course, it ran only for a few weeks each year.

To me, a 4 X 8 is a fun size. It's small enough to be manageable and finished relatively quickly and, even in HO, it's possible to add some switching and a little A-to-B shipping. My 4 X 8 modeled a branch line and the trains were small road switchers with 3-4 cars. I could carry lots of different loads between the small town in one corner and the commercial orchard in the opposite corner. Spurs in both allowed for some operating. Most of all, it allowed me to learn and enoy several aspects of model railroading.

As far as NASCAR, I enjoyed it back when it really was stock car racing and still watch now and then.

To sum up, I guess it's not the oval that counts, it's what you do with it.

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Posted by SteamFreak on Friday, July 27, 2007 10:48 PM
 vsmith wrote:

I still think it would be alot of fun to do a 4x8 "racetrack", soup up your old engines with wings scoops and airdams and paint them up in NAStyCAR gaudy colors and race them roundy-round for cash!

I hate to break it to you, but it was done years ago by a company named Tyco. Clown [:o)]

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Posted by TrainFreak409 on Friday, July 27, 2007 7:27 PM
 richg1998 wrote:

I suppose you must feel better after that RANT. Grow up. You are going to hear worse than that in the real world. You have control over your emotions and do not have to "allow" others to upset you.

I model with code 100 track. Plastic locos with DCC. Mostly "shake the box" models etc.

If you know who you are, what you do with modeling is what you want or are limited too. I have heard from geezers about wasting money for plastic locos with added gearboxes and can motors. I have HO tender drive locos where you can see the drive shaft between the tender and loco. I should be buying brass locos they say. Us geezers have nothing better to do than point out everyone else's mistakes or what we perceive as mistakes.

Remember, model railroading is an analogy of the real thing and all analogies break down some where. People with intricate layouts have curves with a radius that scaled up to full scale, trains could never maneuver around them. Many also pride themselves on their models but use Kadee #5 couplers that are over size. There are numerous areas where the analogy breaks down.

Cheers

Rich 

Rich...Please don't take this personally...But isn't it a little hypocritical to be telling SqueakyWheels to grow up when there are so many others that accuse others of being wrong for having a 4 x 8? Sometimes things just get to us for no reason; but Squeak is right, too many people critize the plain 4 x 8 and those "basic" layouts that come about for one reason or another.

And I agree with you 100% when you say that "what you do with modeling is what you want or are limited too." Everyone should come to see this hobby as that. If more people saw it this way, then this hobby would be much more friendly to everyone.

Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

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Posted by Jetrock on Friday, July 27, 2007 1:32 PM

As a fan of point-to-point layouts (and the owner of one,) I don't oppose the idea of 4x8 layouts as a whole--but I do get frustrated by the idea that the 4x8 layout is the One True Layout Size. People get trapped into the 4x8 box and are afraid to leave it, and they get suckered into the whole panoply of 4x8 myths--my favorite of which is "I don't have room for anything but a 4x8." So while I don't actively oppose the continuous run as an operation scheme, to me the 4x8 is a sorry compromise that too many people take as the general rule.

 I also get bored of watching the trains go round and round a lot more quickly than I get bored of switching. When prototype railfanning, I tend to prefer watching switching operations, in a yard or an industrial area, to watching the trains go by: to me, that's where the action is.

 And yeah, I think NASCAR is pretty boring to watch too. I'm not actively interested in drag racing, but it suits my attention span more than watching a couple dozen guys make left turns all afternoon.

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Posted by Biased turkey on Friday, July 27, 2007 12:31 PM

Tired of going around in circles/ovals ?

Try a switching micro layout, no huge space required 4 square feet is enough

http://carendt.com/

 

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, July 27, 2007 12:00 PM

Since we've been comparing motor sports and model railroading, why not a side-by-side comparison, with an added starter:

1.  Quick run action at the end, FINI!

  • Test track (or programming track) - 2 yards of Atlas flex.
  • Drag race - 1/4 mile in a (hopefully) straight line.
  • Vault (gymnastics) - sprint, POP, (hopefully) no deductions.

2.  Small area, circular (or not) run:

  • One or two laps on a 4 x 8 - can be made interesting (anybody remember John Armstrong's Allagash and Penobscot?)
  • Bristol - 43 cars chasing themselves around in a soup tureen.
  • Floor Exercise (gymnastics) - all the action you can pack into a 40 foot square and seventy seconds.

3.  Enough area, prototypical or otherwise:

  • A garage (barn, hangar) filler, with all the features the owner wants - possible for a small percentage, dreamland for most.
  • Le Mans - 24 hours of French countryside, weather, fatigue, mechanical failures and (eventually) victory.
  • The whole Olympic Games, from opening ceremony until the Flame goes out and the banner is furled for the next four years.

If the choice was available, most of us would take 3.  Reality limits our choices.

My personal modeling world, for many years, was a module eight feet long and 16 inches wide - something like what Spacemouse is working on, but narrower and with off-module cassette staging.  These days, I'm slowly expanding across a 2-car garage.  I, too, had loops - and some REALLY small things carved from wood with an 0-5-0 for motive power.  The one common factor - I was having fun!

If you aren't having fun, you're in the wrong hobby.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Friday, July 27, 2007 11:57 AM

 loathar wrote:
Go to a drag race and stand by the finish line as two 7000h.p. cars blow by you at 330mph. It's a RUSH!!!
Oh, I didn't say I had never been to a drag race.  I've been to plenty.  My brain must be geared to get a rush from different things.  I even ran some bracket style back in high school, but when I'm driving I've always prefered going fast for a longer period of time.  I lived 35 miles from my high school and my mother never figured out that I walked out the door of our house at 7:30 but was sitting at my desk, on time, at 8:00. 

 vsmith wrote:
I still think it would be alot of fun to do a 4x8 "racetrack", soup up your old engines with wings scoops and airdams and paint them up in NAStyCAR gaudy colors and race them roundy-round for cash!

Come-on, doesnt it sound like a fun thing to do for like a trainshow event ??

I don't know about the loco modifications, but I'll bet the hosts of the shows like the Great Train Expo would love it if someone did roundy-round type of race.  

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Posted by Greg H. on Friday, July 27, 2007 11:40 AM
 SqueakyWheels wrote:

SNIP

Sorry Greg about the migraine.

 

The migraines are one of the reasions that I'm trying model railroading as a hobby - I can take my medication, and turn my train loose, then just sit back and watch it run in loops, while I turn in to a vegtable for several hours - Last month I figured that since last Feb, I have ended up loosing on average between 30 and 40 hours a week due to pain and medication - makes life real interesting, to say the least.

Greg H.
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Posted by SqueakyWheels on Friday, July 27, 2007 11:28 AM

Guess I need to apologize- didn't mean to step on anyone's toes.

Though not really an excuse, I was a bit tipsy while doing this post yesterday.

Usually things like this does not bother me, but the other day it just came across in such a way it ruffled my feathers, and although I kind of forgot about it, with the influence of a couple of beers, the subject raised it's ugly head, and turned me into sort of a Mr. Hyde.

 

And my 4X8 is HO all the way. There is still the talk about cutting it up into four sections, tearind down a wall and two closets to make a 10X20 against the walls, and using the existing portions to build around the walls. It would seem like a lot of work though.

And it is true- it is fun just to cut the trains loose, drink a couple of beers, and think about the next scheme at hand.

Maybe I should have went with Z scale and a few popsicle sticks? The only problem is that detailing would be out of my eyesight- got enough problems seeing HO.

Sorry Greg about the migraine.

 

By the way, HI Stevearino - You on the East or West?

Anyway, for what it is worth; We will carry on with what we have to work with, and try to make the best of it.

Most part is to have some fun.

Tim _______________________________ Our Father is MY PILOT!!!!
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Posted by SteelMonsters on Friday, July 27, 2007 10:43 AM

 SqueakyWheels wrote:
I am sick and tired of hearing about toy trains going around in a circle/oval. I have a toy train going around in an oval with two tracks. So what? You prptotypical guys need to get a grip with yourselves. These are TOYs! If you gain no commerce from them, then they are just TOYS!!!!

Us "prototypical" guys do what we do because we enjoy doing it. We model the prototype railways. We spend countless hours researching, designing, selecting, building, wiring, troubleshooting, crafting, sculpting, painting and weathering. We take pictures, ideas, and memories and build a railroad in it's own setting. The accomplishment and satisfaction of making a high quality scale model of a prototype is immense.

There is no fine line between what is a toy and what is a model. Basically a toy is something that is bought for the sole purpose to play with. A scale model is a recreation of something at a scale size. We just so happen to make a scale model of prototype railroading. To us, this is not playing with toys. We don't buy to play with it. We buy to make a scale railroad. Why do we put the effort in? Because we enjoy it. 

You enjoy Nascar/Indy 500? They go around in circles!!!! For Christ's SAKE!!!!

DO YOU NOT LAZE AROUND ON YOUR COUCH, AND DECLARE- "OH MY GOD THEY ARE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES?"

So? Whats your point? Some people like Nascar, others like running their trains in circles. I don't like either. To me, both are pointless. I let the people I know that do either know it too. The thing is that the jokes that we throw are just superficial. If one of my friends turns to a Nascar race, I'll watch it, drink beer and cheer on Jeff Gordon. (practically everyone hates him)

People do what they like and I respect that. What I don't respect is people going around stereotyping people and proceeding to tear down what they like. This is exactly what you have done to me. There is being cute, then there is crossing the line. You crossed the line.
-Marc
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Posted by vsmith on Friday, July 27, 2007 10:33 AM

I still think it would be alot of fun to do a 4x8 "racetrack", soup up your old engines with wings scoops and airdams and paint them up in NAStyCAR gaudy colors and race them roundy-round for cash!

Come-on, doesnt it sound like a fun thing to do for like a trainshow event ??

 

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by vsmith on Friday, July 27, 2007 10:25 AM
 ARTHILL wrote:

Well if you ever wanted to run a line down the side of your hallway...Big Smile [:D]

Actually I can see this being an option on a lot of room layouts where space is iffy or as a interesting way to do something floor to ceiling without eating a ton of space...

   Have fun with your trains

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