4X8 VS NASCAR

[SqueakyWheels]

OK.....

 

I am sick and tired of hearing about toy trains going around in a circle/oval. I have a toy train going around in an oval with two tracks. So what? You prptotypical guys need to get a grip with yourselves. These are TOYs! If you gain no commerce from them, then they are just TOYS!!!!

You enjoy Nascar/Indy 500? They go around in circles!!!! For Christ's SAKE!!!!

 DO YOU NOT LAZE AROUND ON YOUR COUCH, AND DECLARE- "OH MY GOD THEY ARE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES?"

For what reason do you wrath then?

Because there is a chance that something is going to go wrong- whether it a shellf unit or what not.

You dizzies need to give up, and you need to appreciate that there is anyone left to this Hobby.

[Don Z]

Tim, are we having a bad day?

Don Z.

[tomikawaTT]

Chill out, Brother Squeak.  If somebody tells you that old that, "The prototype doesn't run in circles," ask said idiot if the Yamate line of what is now JR-East doesn't qualify as a prototype.  While the actual ground plan more nearly resembles an unevenly deflated football, the route schematic (found in every JR-East station in the Tokyo Metropolitan Area) shows it as a perfect circle.  The EMU's run round and round in the same direction from the time they leave the storage yard until they return there several revolutions (and 25,000 passengers or so) later.  (That's 25,000 PER SET - the daily total is up in the low millions.)

Yup, there really IS a prototype for everything.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[tstage]

Tim, 

Soooooo...is there a particular thread or threads that set you off?  Or, did another MRRer just happen to push one too many of your buttons.  I guess we're just tryin' to understand the cause and effect of your rant.

Tom

[WCfan]

Chill brother. Yeah I got a 4x8, and I don't mind running it in circles. Running trains in circles can be proto-typical. My layout in the future will have a staging yard off in the corner; I run the trains in circles to represent main line. The staging yard counts as two yards, so I can also run Transfers. Any way, running in circles fine. I kind of like it better that point to point, well on small layouts, because you can actually watch the trains.

[SqueakyWheels]

YES

 

Ticked off......

 

There was another post, but I cannot find it- regarding being bothered by too many questions asked by 4X8-er's.

 

But, it set me off- and has ben bothering me for the last couple of days.

I can't find it, though, I will look farther.

I welcome all, no matter what they protray, because a lot of times, their income/space will differ from the others.

We have to LOVE them all, and with respect and regards of what they do.

[Anonymous]

-

[TrainFreak409]

There was another post, but I cannot find it- regarding being bothered by too many questions asked by 4X8-er's.

 

But, it set me off- and has ben bothering me for the last couple of days.

I can't find it, though, I will look farther.

I welcome all, no matter what they protray, because a lot of times, their income/space will differ from the others.

We have to LOVE them all, and with respect and regards of what they do.

If I'm not mistaken, there is a comment about 4 x 8s in the Student Fare thread somewhere around here.

 

And since you are bringing up NASCAR...That'd be pretty neat to see racing F units or something along those lines. Whadda layout that would be...Need some banked curves and all too. That would be great to set up in a smaller scale on the corner of a layout!

[Greg H.]

OK.....

 

I am sick and tired of hearing about toy trains going around in a circle/oval. I have a toy train going around in an oval with two tracks. So what? You prptotypical guys need to get a grip with yourselves. These are TOYs! If you gain no commerce from them, then they are just TOYS!!!!

You enjoy Nascar/Indy 500? They go around in circles!!!! For Christ's SAKE!!!!

 DO YOU NOT LAZE AROUND ON YOUR COUCH, AND DECLARE- "OH MY GOD THEY ARE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES?"

For what reason do you wrath then?

Because there is a chance that something is going to go wrong- whether it a shellf unit or what not.

You dizzies need to give up, and you need to appreciate that there is anyone left to this Hobby.

I'm sorry - well maybe only a little, but I am in general agreement, and that why I think it's funny.

I started model railroading less than a month ago, and joined the forum perhaps 2 weeks ago, and the first thing I did was search 4x8 layouts, because that's what I'm working on for my first layout, because that is going to fit on the dinning room table, and as I read, it felt like I had stumbled into some kind of mine field "Oh no, not a 4x8. They are so insert negitive description of choice ".

Personaly I think it's a bit of a chalenge to make it so that a train can take the longest most interesting possable trip ( read trip as loop ), before it actualy passes over the same bit of track twice in the same dirrection.

What I can't understand, is a engine and 3-4 cars going back and forth, just changing the order of one paticular car to another, pretending to drop freight off and picking it up.   

Sorry, if I'm going to take a car somewhere, I'm going to at least have some kind action going to load and unload a hopper car or some such.   Sure, that means I have to come up with some kind of " cargo ", and a means to transfer it from the area that the RR cars unload it, to the places where it's loaded, not to mention trying to figure out how to get a N scale hopper car to actualy work, but that is part of the hobby is it not?   Sure, I may end up pulling what little hair I have out ( it's only about 1/4 inch long ), but to me that beats to all heck worrying about how many bolts are visable on a z scale bridge - but hey different strokes for diferent folks, and that means that just because I can't understand what it is that gives them pleasure it not my place to tell them that they are doing the hobby wrong.  

[alco_fan]

For what reason do you wrath then?

Huh? Dude, mix in some decaf.

FWIW, I find oval auto racing extremely tedious.

[cordon]

Hmm.  My first, 55 years ago, was a 4 x 8 oval American Flyer S-Gauge with two remote controlled switches.  I added an HO oval with a couple of sidings with switches thrown by steel cables and knobs salvaged from automobiles.

My second, five years ago, was 4 x 7, due to space limitations.  It had an HO double main line loop and a reversing loop.

Now I have expanded that to 7 x 12 because I have more room.  The reversing loop never worked well at 4 x 7.  I have "abandoned" the 18-inch curves and changed from No. 4 to No. 6 switches. The reversing loop works just fine.  The layout will have a yard on one end and industries on the other inside the loop, plus a couple long sidings outside the main.  The main will also be double.

I enjoy continuous running, and the oval supports that in a limited space.  With 15 or so cars it even begins to sound like a train.

Ultimately, I hope to model the the Gilluly Loops in southeastern Utah by going up the wall behind the oval and at the ends of the room.  We'll see.

 

[vsmith]

Well then heres a solution...

4x8 with 4 oval tracks side by side, with banked curves, runnin yer stuff at full throttle...

Can you say RACE DAY!!!!!

I knew you could...

[loathar]

I don't like watching NASCAR tail chasers. That's why I watch NHRA DRAG RACING!!!

It's more prototypical.

[SteamFreak]

Don't sweat it, Squeak. Model railroading can take many different forms and involve all sorts of different creativity, so don't let "The Man" get you down.

In fact, here's an example of a different take on things. I guess this is how they do it in Norway.

Model railroad in livingroom

[richg1998]

OK.....

 

I am sick and tired of hearing about toy trains going around in a circle/oval. I have a toy train going around in an oval with two tracks. So what? You prptotypical guys need to get a grip with yourselves. These are TOYs! If you gain no commerce from them, then they are just TOYS!!!!

You enjoy Nascar/Indy 500? They go around in circles!!!! For Christ's SAKE!!!!

 DO YOU NOT LAZE AROUND ON YOUR COUCH, AND DECLARE- "OH MY GOD THEY ARE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES?"

For what reason do you wrath then?

Because there is a chance that something is going to go wrong- whether it a shellf unit or what not.

You dizzies need to give up, and you need to appreciate that there is anyone left to this Hobby.

I suppose you must feel better after that RANT. Grow up. You are going to hear worse than that in the real world. You have control over your emotions and do not have to "allow" others to upset you.

I model with code 100 track. Plastic locos with DCC. Mostly "shake the box" models etc.

If you know who you are, what you do with modeling is what you want or are limited too. I have heard from geezers about wasting money for plastic locos with added gearboxes and can motors. I have HO tender drive locos where you can see the drive shaft between the tender and loco. I should be buying brass locos they say. Us geezers have nothing better to do than point out everyone else's mistakes or what we perceive as mistakes.

Remember, model railroading is an analogy of the real thing and all analogies break down some where. People with intricate layouts have curves with a radius that scaled up to full scale, trains could never maneuver around them. Many also pride themselves on their models but use Kadee #5 couplers that are over size. There are numerous areas where the analogy breaks down.

Cheers

Rich 

[Greg H.]

In fact, here's an example of a different take on things. I guess this is how they do it in Norway.

Model railroad in livingroom

Neat, but, like prototype, derailments must cost a bundel to repair.

[Gandy Dancer]

I don't like watching NASCAR tail chasers. That's why I watch NHRA DRAG RACING!!!

Ok, this is one I would like to really understand.  What is it that people find interesting about drag racing?  There is no strategy in the race that I can see.  I see some strategy in setting up the car properly, but not in the race itself.

On circuit racing I understand the strategy of running hard at first, or later in the race, timing of pits, following vs leading, running high or low, diamonding the corners, etc.  I keep thinking there is something similar in drag racing but I can't figure it out.  How much can a driver make up for a poorly set up car in a few seconds?

[ARTHILL]

Here's one for those who say my cliffs are too steep or do not have enough foilage. As for 4x8s, I have built three of them and I have two now connected with a big loop so I can watch trains run.

[loathar]

I don't like watching NASCAR tail chasers. That's why I watch NHRA DRAG RACING!!!

Ok, this is one I would like to really understand.  What is it that people find interesting about drag racing?  There is no strategy in the race that I can see.  I see some strategy in setting up the car properly, but not in the race itself.

On circuit racing I understand the strategy of running hard at first, or later in the race, timing of pits, following vs leading, running high or low, diamonding the corners, etc.  I keep thinking there is something similar in drag racing but I can't figure it out.  How much can a driver make up for a poorly set up car in a few seconds?

There's strategy involved. It's mostly pre-race. Setting your air/fuel mixture for current conditions. Tire and suspension settings for track conditions. (which are always changing) The driver has to find the best "groove" in the track for best traction.Drivers can't do much if the crew chief sets the car up wrong.

In the lower classes, you can have the best car, but if you steer out of the groove and miss your shift points...you lose! No making up laps in drag racing. It's not a very forgiving sport like roundy round. Two nitro powered cars produce the same horse power as 20 Nextel Cup cars.

Go to a drag race and stand by the finish line as two 7000h.p. cars blow by you at 330mph. It's a RUSH!!!

[Midnight Railroader]

YES

 

Ticked off......

 

There was another post, but I cannot find it- regarding being bothered by too many questions asked by 4X8-er's.

 

But, it set me off- and has ben bothering me for the last couple of days.

I can't find it, though, I will look farther.

I welcome all, no matter what they protray, because a lot of times, their income/space will differ from the others.

We have to LOVE them all, and with respect and regards of what they do.

It is simple.

We are attempting to simulate real life in miniature.

If I was trying to simulate a NASCAR race, I'd build an HO scale model of a track in which cars run in circles. Maybe Bristol.

But the operation of a railroad, which we are trying to simulate, does not happen in a loop. And should you choose to build a layout in which the loco chases its tail--and you're welcome to do that--you will discover that operating it will get boring very, very quickly.

[WCfan]

YES

 

Ticked off......

 

There was another post, but I cannot find it- regarding being bothered by too many questions asked by 4X8-er's.

 

But, it set me off- and has ben bothering me for the last couple of days.

I can't find it, though, I will look farther.

I welcome all, no matter what they protray, because a lot of times, their income/space will differ from the others.

We have to LOVE them all, and with respect and regards of what they do.

It is simple.

We are attempting to simulate real life in miniature.

If I was trying to simulate a NASCAR race, I'd build an HO scale model of a track in which cars run in circles. Maybe Bristol.

But the operation of a railroad, which we are trying to simulate, does not happen in a loop. And should you choose to build a layout in which the loco chases its tail--and you're welcome to do that--you will discover that operating it will get boring very, very quickly.

To a point it does. But that's why I have industry spurs/sidings, and an up coming staging yard for LOTS more operation.

[Stevearino]

Hey Squeaky,

 Not really on topic, just saw that you are from my hometown and wanted to say hey, so, "hey"

[jeffers_mz]

Here's one for those who say my cliffs are too steep or do not have enough foilage. As for 4x8s, I have built three of them and I have two now connected with a big loop so I can watch trains run.

 

Awesome pics, Arthill, they make me miss jeeping in Colorado, it's been too long. Do you know where those roads are? I'd like to drive them if possible.

 

Squeaky Wheels, don't let the grumps get you down. You're never going to please them.

If your layout doesn't look as "real" to them as their own does, they will use your "failings" to help convince themselves they are superior.

If your layout looks better to them than their own, they will nitpick it to death, to excuse their own shortcomings.

That glass has always been half empty, and it's always going to be half empty, the leopard simply isn't going to change its spots.

You can let it eat at you, or you can accept that it's never going to change. It's not about you. It's about people who do not live by or even trust their own judgement, and who do not hold their own standards above all others. In essence, they do not actually exist until they have someone else to measure themselves against. Spend all your money, and take thousands of manhours doing everythoing exactly the way they tell you too, and they'll just double their efforts to prove you still have it wrong. It's about their ego, not your work.

You can tilt those windmills till it consumes you, or you can surround yourself with truly superior people, those who put their best into what they do and look for, and recognize, the best in other people. 

Choose wisely, because you only get so many years either way, and when you're near the end, you will have to account for how you spent your own time. 

To yourself.

 

;-)

[Greg H.]

We are attempting to simulate real life in miniature.

Are we?   If so how much and to what degree?

Who determins that one part of life is any better to model or worse than any other parts of life?

SNIP

But the operation of a railroad, which we are trying to simulate, does not happen in a loop. And should you choose to build a layout in which the loco chases its tail--and you're welcome to do that--you will discover that operating it will get boring very, very quickly.

Doesn't that all depend on what part we are trying to simulate? You better believe that it does!

To me that part I'm interested in simulating, is watching a train go by some senic countryside, and thinking I'm on board for the trip - the thought of moving a few box cars from one point to another back and forth along the same 3-4 ft of track - frankly because my imagination is good enough, that I don't have to sit down and try and controll every last little detail, in some little side yard.   If I model Glenwood canyon along I-70, that's because I want to be there again, and the same thing goes for

Who are you ( or anyone else ) to try force upon others that the purpose in life is to waste our time to moving a box car through a maize of 30 paralell tracks with 18 different connecting points, just to satisify your own personial opinion of how things should be done?

If you want to move a box car from one piece of track, to another, just pick it up and move it by hand, it's a lot less waste of time than fliping a bunch of switches back and forth.  

Me?  I'm going to build a loop, and then sit back for a while and dream that I'm on journy where cell phones don't ring every 2 minutes, no mail, and univerasal peace and no cares in the world for an hour or so - Thats My privalage, Not Yours.  

You don't like the little slice of the world that the rest of us have made? Tough, you can get off at the next stop, without a refund, no one is forcing you to take our trains or even enjoy them, so stop trying to rain on other peoples parade, just because you can't march with the band that's playing.

Take a good close look at prototypical railroads, and you will find alot of loops, even in point to point systems such as trains picking up coal from mines and delivering it to power plants only to turn around and go pick up more coal over the same piece of track month after month, year after year  ( at least they are actualy picking stuff up and dropping stuff off ).

Light rail & commuter trains do nothing but loops going over the same ground hour after hour - sure, they stop every so often to take on passengers and let them off again, but it is still a loop.   If you don't see loops in prototypical operations, you haven't looked hard enough, about the only thing that doesn't loop is the actual contents of the rail cars.

[SteamFreak]

In fact, here's an example of a different take on things. I guess this is how they do it in Norway.

Model railroad in livingroom

Neat, but, like prototype, derailments must cost a bundel to repair.

Hopefully your head would break the fall.

[Midnight Railroader]

Who are you ( or anyone else ) to try force upon others that the purpose in life is to waste our time to moving a box car through a maize of 30 paralell tracks with 18 different connecting points, just to satisify your own personial opinion of how things should be done?

First of all, you actually quoted the part where I said you're welcome to build a 4x8 if you wish, so it's hard to imagine that I'm trying to "force" anyone to do anything.

Secondly, you're attempting to make the options to a 4x8 circle of track very limited (30 parallel track, etc.) when no one has suggested that's the only (or even best) option.

You're taking this very personally, when it isn't meant that way. We express our opinions here, and if mine is that 4x8s limit that you could be doing in the same relative space, that is not an attack on you.

[Greg H.]

SNIP

First of all, you actually quoted the part where I said you're welcome to build a 4x8 if you wish, so it's hard to imagine that I'm trying to "force" anyone to do anything.

Secondly, you're attempting to make the options to a 4x8 circle of track very limited (30 parallel track, etc.) when no one has suggested that's the only (or even best) option.

You're taking this very personally, when it isn't meant that way. We express our opinions here, and if mine is that 4x8s limit that you could be doing in the same relative space, that is not an attack on you.

Midnight,

My appologies, I was fighting a migraine last night when I mis-read your post.   At this time, I don't even remember how I was understanding what I thought I read.

Me, I like 4x8 because it big enough to show some serious sceanery, yet small enough to move out of the way - at the same time I chose to work with N scale, since that openes up more possabilities with a standard 4x8, yet is not so small a scale that it becomes real expensive.

Again my appologies for mis-reading your post and acting on what I thought I read.

[vsmith]

Well if you ever wanted to run a line down the side of your hallway...

Actually I can see this being an option on a lot of room layouts where space is iffy or as a interesting way to do something floor to ceiling without eating a ton of space...

[vsmith]

I still think it would be alot of fun to do a 4x8 "racetrack", soup up your old engines with wings scoops and airdams and paint them up in NAStyCAR gaudy colors and race them roundy-round for cash!

Come-on, doesnt it sound like a fun thing to do for like a trainshow event ??

 

[SteelMonsters]

I am sick and tired of hearing about toy trains going around in a circle/oval. I have a toy train going around in an oval with two tracks. So what? You prptotypical guys need to get a grip with yourselves. These are TOYs! If you gain no commerce from them, then they are just TOYS!!!!

Us "prototypical" guys do what we do because we enjoy doing it. We model the prototype railways. We spend countless hours researching, designing, selecting, building, wiring, troubleshooting, crafting, sculpting, painting and weathering. We take pictures, ideas, and memories and build a railroad in it's own setting. The accomplishment and satisfaction of making a high quality scale model of a prototype is immense.

There is no fine line between what is a toy and what is a model. Basically a toy is something that is bought for the sole purpose to play with. A scale model is a recreation of something at a scale size. We just so happen to make a scale model of prototype railroading. To us, this is not playing with toys. We don't buy to play with it. We buy to make a scale railroad. Why do we put the effort in? Because we enjoy it. 

You enjoy Nascar/Indy 500? They go around in circles!!!! For Christ's SAKE!!!!

DO YOU NOT LAZE AROUND ON YOUR COUCH, AND DECLARE- "OH MY GOD THEY ARE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES?"

So? Whats your point? Some people like Nascar, others like running their trains in circles. I don't like either. To me, both are pointless. I let the people I know that do either know it too. The thing is that the jokes that we throw are just superficial. If one of my friends turns to a Nascar race, I'll watch it, drink beer and cheer on Jeff Gordon. (practically everyone hates him)

People do what they like and I respect that. What I don't respect is people going around stereotyping people and proceeding to tear down what they like. This is exactly what you have done to me. There is being cute, then there is crossing the line. You crossed the line.