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Freelancers Killing The Hobby?

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Posted by Jason-Train on Monday, March 5, 2007 1:41 PM

Being new to the what I hope to be a long lived hobby for me I will point out some flaws but I wouldn't say "freelancers" cause them.

My biggest "beef" with MRR communities, not just this one, is whatever you call that "don't make the same mistakes I made" syndrome.

These forums offer some much great data I can't even express my thanks to all (well 99% of the posters), especially the long timers, guys like selector, brakie, chip, etc etc, lots of them I've missed.

However what I find is that sometimes the forums desires to avoid the syndrome I described above leaves the first time hobbiest with an uneasy feeling of, "am I SURE MRR is right for me?".  Especially the young maybe unsure types.  Could it be scaring away folks, I'd say yeah, probably some but I don't think enough to offset the gurus sounds advice.

What I don't see enough from the "guru's" is:

"<place the best advice / solution / etc here> but whatever makes YOU happy"

It seems that alot of advice goes along the "Choose two can't have three rule"  but the gurus tend pick all three.

quality, time, cost

I wish the gurus would reference something like that when they post advice.  I'd also extend it to include "knowhow" or "ability" or "skill" in there.

I use the word gurus in the sense of compliment, I don't want folks to think I'm "name calling"

Personally, I look in awe(sp) at some of the screen shots folks put up.  It isn't even something I would attempt to strive for, good gosh some of the shots, it is difficult to tell it is a model at all. 

All that said, you can't deny the intimidateing feeling some gurus leave with some folks though.

 

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, March 5, 2007 1:45 PM
Quote:

Do Freelancers drive away people?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a Very Clear Answer to your question. It is fact, not opinion or "they say" or "I heard". Isn't weird that you cannot find those two groups.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070303/lf_nm/life_trains_dc_2

The article will no doubt start some of the old timers complaining that it is "just running trains", not modeling. 

Oh, this thread is the greatest. Thanks for starting it.

By the way, I am 66 and I know how people my age can get to be a nit picky grouch.

rich 

 

 

 

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by TrainFreak409 on Monday, March 5, 2007 8:39 PM
 richg1998 wrote:
Quote:

Do Freelancers drive away people?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a Very Clear Answer to your question. It is fact, not opinion or "they say" or "I heard". Isn't weird that you cannot find those two groups.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070303/lf_nm/life_trains_dc_2

The article will no doubt start some of the old timers complaining that it is "just running trains", not modeling. 

Oh, this thread is the greatest. Thanks for starting it.

By the way, I am 66 and I know how people my age can get to be a nit picky grouch.

rich 

That's an interesting article. I enjoyed reading that one.

What got me though, is the "Kids don't want to assemble sets." Sure, I guess for most it's true...It's amazing how lazy kids are getting nowadays. And the kid that said that was 16...

Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, March 5, 2007 9:47 PM

Many present day model railroaders started off like that, running trains. My first train in 1950 was a 027 Lionel steam engine with smoke, whistle, operating milk car, operating log car, searchlight car and a couple more cars. A friend had an O gauge Santa Fe twind diesel with passenger cars. Those engines where huge. That was quite a train. With four younger brothers, nothing of mine survived. All I ever had was a loop.                              Another friend had a 027 layout in his cellar and all we did is run trains.
Many years later I had the funds and home to build a HO layout. Yes, it is freelance.                                         I still put 027 Marx around the Christmas tree.                                                                                              Many model railroaders forget their humble beginnings.

rich 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Monday, March 5, 2007 10:01 PM
I vote Troll.  It is hard to see how a freelanced railroad that gives its owner (or club, for that matter) pleasure is going to drive anyone who sees that pleasure away from the hobby.  Same for a more 'prototypical' layout.  The one thing that might drive people away from the hobby is someone that is so obsessed with any one thing that they don't seem to be having fun.  (Kind of like said Troll, in my opinion.)  After all, if your hobby isn't fun for you, why would I want to do it?  Fun, good; obsession, bad.

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, March 5, 2007 10:11 PM
 Jason-Train wrote:
quality, time, cost

I wish the gurus would reference something like that when they post advice.  I'd also extend it to include "knowhow" or "ability" or "skill" in there.

I am not certain I understand this point.  Elaborate please.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 8:57 AM

 

Scott,

I have worked on various propulsion projects including fuel cell, electric and electric-hybrid drives. I looked at your designs and think they are very imaginative and plausible. You did a great job on the website as well. You should be proud. Thumbs Up [tup]

The person who posted the negative comment was probably jealous. Jealously can be a terrible thing. It is easy for someone to leave a stupid comment, no special skills required. The person needs to get a life and stop looking to hurt others.

On the subject of freelancing, I doubt it has any negative effect. Look at some of the great freelanced model railroads. Most inspire us all.

Tyco and other low-end train sets have drove more people from the hobby than anything else.

Jim

Jim

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 9:12 AM
The ultimate freelancer was one of the hobbies greatest model railroaders -  John Allen.  His creatvity and modeling skills continue being an inspiration to 1000's many years after his death. 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 9:15 AM

Scott,

With the way the Internet is these days, it's easy for the "spineless" to become "bold as a lion" in their stealthy attacks on others - whether that's here on the forum or when leaving a comment on someone's web site.

It's obvious that this particular "night raider" gets his jollies from putting others down so that they can boost himself up.  I wouldn't even take what he has to say to heart.  For a "dork", you put together a pretty nice looking web site. Smile [:)]Thumbs Up [tup]

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by perry1060 on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:22 AM

I think there's room in the hobby for the real, the unreal, and the unlucky. Diversity matters and provides something for everyone to enjoy. (IMHO)

The real ???

The unreal...

The unlucky...

 

My web site (updated monthly)

http://home.mchsi.com/~ironmaster1960/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

 

 

 

 

Enjoy the hobby Perry
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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 12:04 PM

Nice modeling Perry. I enjoyed the slide show. Thanks.

 

Rich 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 12:13 PM

I think that a hobby is just that a hobby...

People have hobbies like Model RR to increase the fun and enjoyment in their lives...

If someone leaves because they can't kit bash like a experienced hobbyist then maybe this hobby is not for them...

I have tried many things in modeling and in other types of fine arts over the years...

Some have been great successes some have been terrible flops...

As in any hobby if it feels good do it...if it hurts stop doing it...

This is the wisdom of the Cream Corn...

Later....

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Posted by Jason-Train on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 12:19 PM
 Texas Zepher wrote:
 Jason-Train wrote:
quality, time, cost

I wish the gurus would reference something like that when they post advice.  I'd also extend it to include "knowhow" or "ability" or "skill" in there.

I am not certain I understand this point.  Elaborate please.

My post got eaten by the intarweb (dang it all, was  good response to you too).

Cliff notes:

Assumptions often get made that cause folks to rethink the question , is MRR right for me.  The assumptions most often come across in posts by the "MRR educated" that time, quality and costs are moot points.  When I'd bet in every case, one of those three is a sacrifice.

The "Pick two" rule should only have three options, my attempt to add a fourth (skill) was incorrect. The three break down like this:

Quality = how skilled and knowledgable are you

Time = how fast do you want it

Money = how important is money

It often seems responses to folks assume all three are non-issues when usually that is far from reality.

To clarify the "Pick two" rule, it goes like this:

You want something fast and cheap, you will sacrifice quality

You want something fast and of quality, it will cost you

You want something of quality and cheap , it will take a lot of time

Hope you're following me.  I hate the internet sometimes for eating posts /grrr !!

 

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Posted by cudaken on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 1:08 PM

 409 bulid what you like. I have ran into that kind of stuff in my HP Mopars. My 70 Cuda has a Fresh Air air cleaner (for working hood scoops) but hood scoops on my Cuda are none working.

 Guy at a Mopar show started telling me how it wrong, looks silly and I should sell the rare air cleaner to some that needs it! I looked at him them pointed at another Cuda and said "go look at that one he has a round air cleaner" and walk off.

 What other people model will have ne effect on me unless I like it and copy it.

 

                          Cuda Ken

I hate Rust

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Posted by cudaken on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 1:22 PM

 Jason I went the (You want something of quality and cheap , it will take a lot of time) route. After doing this for a year I am glad I did. But the few that follws my post all so remberBanged Head [banghead]Sign - Oops [#oops]Confused [%-)]Banged Head [banghead] times as well.

 The worst thing for me was I did not understand the answers I was given for a while. Finaly sorted out the information and figured out how to use it. When you tell a new person you need to clean up the booster to make a car roll better, you need to tell them what a booster is!Wink [;)]  Have around 70 cheap Tyco's and LL making there rounds with no problems and pull as well if not better than Athearn RTR's.

                       Cuda Ken 

I hate Rust

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 1:37 PM

One magazine I really miss is AWNUTS (Always Whimsical, Not Usually To Scale)!! They had some great (and bizarre) train stuff in there done just for FUN - which no matter how serious we are, should always be a part of the hobby.

 

BTW, I thought I freelanced because I was too lazy to add all the correct details to this railroad or that railroad's engines!! Blush [:I]

Stix
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Posted by DaveInTheHat on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 1:39 PM

Personally, I'm only in it for the fun. It doesn't matter to me. I enjoy looking at trains any scale any price range. I'll probably be running something kit bashed from a couple cheap swap meet finds. The main reason being I don't want to invest the money in expenisive trains. If someone has a problem with anything that model, it's their problem not mine. 

My pictures: http://public.fotki.com/DaveInTheHat/

My videos & slideshows: http://www.youtube.com/user/daveinthehat/videos

My book: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/411321

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 6:41 PM
 Jason-Train wrote:
Assumptions often get made that cause folks to rethink the question , is MRR right for me.  The assumptions most often come across in posts by the "MRR educated" that time, quality and costs are moot points.  When I'd bet in every case, one of those three is a sacrifice.
And I've always been puzzled by the posts when someone asks what do do with a billion tons of brass track, or warehouses of old Rivarossi, Bachmann, and Tyco type toy train equipment.  How encouraging can it be when everyone tells them they need to throw it all away and start over with "good" stuff.
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Posted by on30francisco on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 6:48 PM
 DaveInTheHat wrote:

Personally, I'm only in it for the fun. It doesn't matter to me. I enjoy looking at trains any scale any price range. I'll probably be running something kit bashed from a couple cheap swap meet finds. The main reason being I don't want to invest the money in expenisive trains. If someone has a problem with anything that model, it's their problem not mine. 

 My philosophy is "Model Railroading is Fun"! Besides the indoor freelanced Large Scale logging layout I'm building on #1 gauge track, I started modeling a Large Scale industrial/mining line using HO track. That comes out to around 15 prototype inches for the gauge. Although it's definitely freelanced, it's plausable and allows me to enjoy modeling in Large Scale in the space required for HO.  

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:09 PM

The fact is you really can't draw a thin black line between freelancing and "prototyping."  Granted, the latter is anchored by guys like Jack Burgess who have every line pole and every weed in its place (Jack's the guy who does the spectacular model of the Yosemite Valley RR).  But there's a spectrum, and I think the transition is very blurry at best.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the random, spasmatic postings of a troll.  Nobody has any right to tell you how to spend your hobby time.  I chose a prototype (PRR) but then chose to freelance a section of it for my layout.  Why?

To quote a famous current politician, "I am the decider!!!"  And so it is in your world too.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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