One Track Mind wrote: A few times lately I've been accused of "hating" steam locomotives because (most of the time) there are few or none in my shop. Of course, I do not hate steam locomotives. While trying to defend my business practices, I offer the following explanations for why there is a lack of steam in my store. Let's look at what is offered: The Cheap Toyish Stuff - guess we can all agree a 40.00 steam locomotive is not worth stocking? If I can't have any faith in the product, I'm not going to stock it. Next up the food chain is IHC: decent runners, look OK also. Not cheap, not real expensive. Had some a few years ago that tended to wobble. Short discount from my more convenient distributor. Never know when IHC will have one of those 2 page blow-out sales. Just not worth the risk for me to stock. Bachmann Spectrum: this brand seems to be a good balance of quality and price. Now that DCC has been added, I'm not willing to stock them as not everyone here wants DCC and those that do don't want Bachmann DCC. One recent run of locomotives appeared on eBay a month before real shops took delivery...not sure how that can happen and certainly no one has given me an answer. Used to sell OK here, not so much anymore. Now we get into the heights of detail, performance and quality with the price to prove it. I'd rather this thread not be turned into a "everything's over-priced" debate...but 300, 400, up to 700 dollars for a steam engine is a little steep for most of my market. I'm not saying they are not worth 400.00, I'm saying most folks just don't have that kind of money. Add in the limited run nature of the more expensive items, and it is the rare time when you see a Genesis, P2K Heritage, Broadway or PCM model in here. So I get accused of "hating steam" due to the lack of steam inventory. What would you stock if you owned a store? What does your local model train shop stock? Anyone have any practical ideas for addressing folks when they ask where are all my steam locomotives? Would like to hear your thoughts. Any opinions will be appreciated! A clarification edit: the title of this post was a direct quote (note the " "s) from two different customers in the last couple of months. I did not mean for it to be taken literally as to why anyone specifically would hate steam locomotives...sorry about that!
A few times lately I've been accused of "hating" steam locomotives because (most of the time) there are few or none in my shop.
Of course, I do not hate steam locomotives.
While trying to defend my business practices, I offer the following explanations for why there is a lack of steam in my store. Let's look at what is offered:
The Cheap Toyish Stuff - guess we can all agree a 40.00 steam locomotive is not worth stocking? If I can't have any faith in the product, I'm not going to stock it.
Next up the food chain is IHC: decent runners, look OK also. Not cheap, not real expensive. Had some a few years ago that tended to wobble. Short discount from my more convenient distributor. Never know when IHC will have one of those 2 page blow-out sales. Just not worth the risk for me to stock.
Bachmann Spectrum: this brand seems to be a good balance of quality and price. Now that DCC has been added, I'm not willing to stock them as not everyone here wants DCC and those that do don't want Bachmann DCC. One recent run of locomotives appeared on eBay a month before real shops took delivery...not sure how that can happen and certainly no one has given me an answer. Used to sell OK here, not so much anymore.
Now we get into the heights of detail, performance and quality with the price to prove it. I'd rather this thread not be turned into a "everything's over-priced" debate...but 300, 400, up to 700 dollars for a steam engine is a little steep for most of my market. I'm not saying they are not worth 400.00, I'm saying most folks just don't have that kind of money. Add in the limited run nature of the more expensive items, and it is the rare time when you see a Genesis, P2K Heritage, Broadway or PCM model in here.
So I get accused of "hating steam" due to the lack of steam inventory.
What would you stock if you owned a store? What does your local model train shop stock? Anyone have any practical ideas for addressing folks when they ask where are all my steam locomotives?
Would like to hear your thoughts. Any opinions will be appreciated!
A clarification edit: the title of this post was a direct quote (note the " "s) from two different customers in the last couple of months. I did not mean for it to be taken literally as to why anyone specifically would hate steam locomotives...sorry about that!
rrbell: have not made in concrete decisions yet. Been pretty busy the last couple of days and I plan on reviewing all of the responses tomorrow on my "day off" and perhaps come up with a better answer tomorrow night.
You all have given me plenty to think about, but I think the real answer here may very well be that I did have this pretty well thought out and there may not be any real good options on stocking steam afterall.
I'll have a better answer tomorrow or next week though.
OTM: This has been a interesting thread and I find it hard to believe that anyone actually HATES steam. Some may be a bit more ignorant than others, but as has been posted earlier, once you try a steam excursion, or perhaps a dinner train, or go to one of the steam history parks, you will definately have a better "feel" for steam.
I personally prefer steam and think all LHS should stock some steam. I would think the following bits pulled from earlier posts in this thread should be considered ( from a customer of a LHS' point of view):
Yes, stock 'some' steam, perhaps what one post called the inexpensive impulse buy to one or two "named" roads for you area.
Yes, do devote some time to an active layout in your store. Displaying locos and trains "on the move" will generate more interest and sales.
Oh boy!! A demo class to show me how to make a tree!! Dad, can we go??!? Get a local modeler to put on a class some Saturday...what a draw for customers.
Listen to the engine as it goes by.......steam locos have all sorts of chimes and whistles that sound so cool ....and can sell themselves. DCC sound is expensive, but what a modeling experience.
And, for those discerning modelers looking for a particular engine, the posting the sign about ...."We order anything you want..." is a good idea...but even better would be to have a couple of painted, but unlettered and un-numbered steam units, with a selection of different types of tenders, that can be operated with or without DCC would also be a selling point.
For those modelers that complain that they can't buy that Big Boy because their layout will only support smaller steam, have a list of local clubs in the area where the modeler can run his BIG engine and give the modeler a place to go.....after you sell them the bigger unit. Local clubs need members, just like LHS's need customers.
For myself, I about died and went to heaven three weeks ago when I received an email from Bachman about the latest run of...get this.....Heavy Mountain 4-8-2 steam, DCC ready ( 8 pin), painted, but unlettered in the Spectrum line for only....$150.00!! Man, I finally have the loco I need for my late 30s, early 40s military transport train. Got the confirming email this morning. The puppy is in the mail. I can't wait......Now I have to decide if I want to spend $85 for a sound decoder with speaker or just get a regular 4 function decoder....decisions....decisions.......Isn't model railroading fun??
Heh heh, I love steam so much I would push for it to be reformed and pressed again into revenue service.
One Track Mind...Do you allow special orders? Make it known to your customers that you can always order the steam locomotive they are looking for. And if your are looking for something to stock...Bachmann Spectrum definitely due to the dual-mode decoders. IHC items have impressed me for their price.
Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
OK folks, thanks again for all the replies. Didn't think this post would receive that many. After reviewing your replies and some additional thinking, I did a couple of searches to further show my predicament in trying to stock steam.
Several of you mentioned to make sure and just stock local road steam. (I have good reasons for believing it's a mistake to only stick to your region, but that's either for another thread or my thoughts on that topic may be too close to store promotion. Remember there are always things I would like to say about my shop to fully explain situations but I can't and that's cool with me)
But let's look at what IS available for local railroad steam. Being somewhat generous I included MP, RI, KCS and Frisco as local region roads. Of all brands, only 21 locomotives are offered, 14 are not available. Of those 21 locomotives, 17 are IHC.
Not a lot of selection there, as one might expect.
Several mentioned special ordering. All I can say is if I told you about special ordering, it really would crossover the fine line of not promoting my store on here.
But hey, let's special order a Big Boy, afterall, they just came out! The #rd versions are already sold out for this run. Special ordering many releases these days (as some did point out) is not an option.
Was a little surprised that more folks didn't point out what their LHS stocks. The reason why I ask about other shops across the country is because I didn't grow up in an area with model train shops, and rarely get the chance to travel and see what other stores are doing. So I like to hear what others do. One mentioned that his LHS did stock a lot of the more expensive steam but also noted he lived in a more affluent suburb.
When I originally posted this, I had already given a lot of thought to options and didn't see many. After this thread, I still don't see a lot of options for my market.
What I do see, from now on, is unless someone special orders a high-dollar locomotive, I am no longer going to order any for stock. No more sound units period. Like rock'n'roll and TV, that's a fad.
All the money I save from not blowing it on expensive locomotive stock will go toward inventory that is rarely bought on-line. I'm finally waving the white flag. After one of my best steam locomotive customers told me all about buying a recent release from Caboose (saving 50 dollars in the process, but see if I speculate ordering anything else for him in the future...) and then calling me up and griping about it for 5 minutes....that may be the straw that broke the camel's back.
So that's where I'm at this afternoon. Thanks again for all the responses, and there are a couple of ideas in this thread that I may very well try and see what happens. Onward and upward.
OTM sez:
I buy new steam locomotives from my LHS. 'Course, he does discount about 20% from retail, but even then the 'net sellers can beat him often as not. Doesn't matter, because he treats his customers right. And he has all the little bits and pieces in stock pretty much all the time (including some brass detail parts so old they're still in Kemtron packages).
What people don't realize is that if you want your vendor to be willing to supply you with what you want is to meet him halfway. In order for him to supply you, he's got to stay in business. This insane business of insisting on the absolute rock bottom price for every single item is just plain nonsense. People are cutting their own throats to just to shave a little off the price of an item which might well disappear because no one can make a profit off it except for those who buy up the stock of defunct hobby shops (and/or manufacturers) for pennies on the dollar and resell it.
Andre
Farfax County VA has a extremely rich cost of living, the utilities alone equals the cost of my Mortgage and is enforced by Housing Community Associations. You cannot live on less than 15 dollars an hour up there or even on one income unless you are very high up in the pay scale of the State or Federal Government.
Im within a year of paying off my mortgage but that does not mean I will be seeing an increase in the train budget where I am. I already enjoy a generous spouse who knows it keeps me out of bars and trouble on friday night. Cannot get arrested playing or building models at home.
Hong Kong may have the engines before we get them in the USA, but I bet you the slow shipping will cause the USA engines to be in hand and paid for before that slow mail boat got here to the west coast.
I have a preference for BLI steam but cannot buy many each year. I dont know how many customers are in the Little Rock market but the store needs other products besides steam models to survive. I for one, am content with the selection inside the store.
Limited Runs by manufactors really cripple both steam and desiel at times. I recall learning about the Trainmasters from Atlas with DCC and Sound and found that they already had thier Limited Run and not availible. So I am careful to select from what CAN be ordered and look ahead 6 months or more in planning.
I do express interest as a customer from time to time but try to be very careful to make clear if I am ready to buy or just looking or enjoying a really nice item.
Bowser is a nice set of engines but they require tools, materials and work bench assembly time which alot of people in this fast paced life does not have time for. Besides there are nicer engines that are complete and ready to go for a few dollars more.
I would think it will cost a great deal of money to hold a large inventory of steam and think that there might not be enough customers who model steam to support such a large inventory. Alot of model railroads that I hear about or have seen in this part of the USA is modern desiel heavy. Steam lives but in Bastions where only a few gather with the space and generous curvature needed to run them. 18" just dont cut it with steam.
I dont want to be the one making a comparision between 20 dollar and 400 dollar sales. I would over 12 months see 5.00 here and there, 40 here and there maybe a 100-200 and on up depending on the budget. And there is always Layaway to "Catch" the limited runs that seems to pop up with a surprise out of no where. Gotta be careful to not abuse that system because it is one method that has allowed me to enjoy some of the items that other wise would have gotten away.
Im surprised that the internet locomotive customer would attempt to lay one on the LHS owner with the loco he purchased off the net. Serves him right if the LHS owner dug in and defended his need to use time, labor and shipping costs to help the cheapsake with his broken engine.
Specific steamers are kind of hard to "Predict" and stock for those who dont tell the Store owner what they have in mind. I do have a shpping list of about 3 steamers or so that I plan to get sometime in the next 18 months but usually dont say much about my plans because I dont want to see a similar steamer in HO sit gathering dust for that long in the display case. When Im financially ready I'll order it, taking my chances with availiblity.
Consignments to me carry a element of risk.. am I buying a well groomed engine that has good manners or someone else's problem?
Bargin Bins are nice provided there may be a small note attached such as "Missing one corner grab iron rail" I might take the model home considering how many of the "Children" in my rolling stock already have a missing grab iron rail from derailing once too many times.
A rigid layaway policy is much better than a free spirit devil may care system with models piling up to bury the store for weeks at a time. That is all I am going to say about it. I noticed that the new layaway policy has been in place for some time and have no issues with it at all. Probably my trips to Little Rock is based on the spouse's VA hospital appointments between once a month to once every 3 months.
Little Rock remembers steam but people here are into Sports, Fishing and hunting more than railroads. Now back home, railroading is strong because it literally is part of the grandfather's grandfather's family history of many people in the city who were served by the railroads both in war and peace. The Deep South has a few places where trains are held in good regard but overall the economy of the Delta does not really lend to spending minimum wage on toys where they might prefer to get Beer and Cigerettes instead.
MSRP is only a guide. Occasionally I'll get an item at that price and not worry about it too much.
Stocking local steam is nice but there are many that will buy from other manufactors and other road schemes if the engine is a nicer one and the re-paint / decaling job is within the customer's skill. I could probably scrub the paint and lettering off the IC steam engine and letter it for Falls Valley and place it into service without too much trouble. But that is part of what I look at when considering what to purchase.
Back home all of the LHS's (At least 10 within 2 hours drive) would stock PRR and B&O engines until your eyes were sore from all the black, brunswick green and gold. Racks and racks of steam engines from IHC all the way to Brass just for the picking availible all the time. No internet and very little mail order back in those days. And Kaybee, Toys R Us and others had Tyco engines and others that really were NOT that good.
Following the trainset crowd, desiels performed better than steam did and if you wanted something nicer you went to the Hobby Shop not a toy store. Ive been to the toy store in my ignorance and never again. What a waste of money that was. 50 dollars back then on 2.50 an hour was ALOT of money for a crappy steam engine of one particular maker that cannot pull anything and run well at all.
I recall several years ago when I was a new customer just making my home here in Arkansas, I saw a BLI Hudson with Sound sitting on OTM's countertop making a show of chuffing back and forth on the test track. I did not buy it on sight but carefully stalked this new Manufactor of engines for the possibility that thier engines do perform well and pull well. I have NOT been disappointed. I remember that day as well because it was truly something new in the HO scale world that was dominated by Riverossi.
I remember when Riverossi released the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 in HO. Seems like everyone with money and access bought a copy. Soon after the maker went out of the business. Would this engine return? Sure. But not to the LHS in any large numbers. If I ordered one of these at 500 dollars would want to have the cash up front. That is something I would not want to put on Layaway.. have enough of that as it is.
Besides how many customers in Little Rock will have the means to buy a 500 dollar engine. There are PLENTY who order the Walthers Catalog on sight (Should have paid for it in adavnce too but that's another thread) but not too many for these really pricey and nice engines.
I dont think stocking a large number of engines is worth the hit on the inventory, I would prefer the dollars to be used to sweeten the availible inventory with a large variety of items which I think One Track Mind and other stores here in Arkansas does a VERY good job of doing.
From that time forward I will order a steam engine with or without sound after assessing it's performance but dont expect me to see walls stocked with floor to ceiling 400 dollar steam. That was 20 years ago and is now part of history.
Would I buy brass. Yes one specific engine which commands a price tag equal to my entire year's hobby budget. That engine would cause my wife to be upset so I will not get it until after the home is paid for to be safe. But that will NOT be an order that will go to the internet or layaway. It would be examined and tested on the track BEFORE it leaves the store to go home to join the other engines.
If I had a choice I prefer to buy from the LHS to keep that store in business. Sure the Internet and Mail order houses might have much better pricing but the risk in shipping or condition of models is not one I am willing to take. I did successfully sell over 100 items on ebay and bought a few but it has ALWAYS been back to the Local Hobby Shop. Keeping the store in business is one good way to ensure a steady supply of needed parts like Kaydee Couplers that is within reach.
If Arkansas did not have any stores I would fall back on two stores but probably will not be purchasing so much (Or so little) each year because of the risk in shipping. I was lucky with a pair of units last year and am very reluctant to try my luck if I dont actually stand inside the store and discuss it with the Owner as to the availibility and pricing.
Some stores in Arkansas are too far away to do any business at all. I would see them in Pine Bluff at the 819 train show there but dont purchase very much because I am mostly there to enjoy the vintage post war merchandise and the current situation regarding the Cotten Belt 819 and to video tape the clubs modular railroads.
Finally I think Steam is restricted to the smaller engines because there does not seem to be many people have radius large enough to run them. I personally am working on a plan that MIGHT carry 30" curves but would be a display track at best. I might buy rollers instead and build a switching layout instead (Which is what I am trying to do)
Regarding clubs, I think there is only one in North Little Rock but dont know much about it yet to decide if it is worth joining to pay dues and run trains. As for other layouts in the area, I have been fortunate to be allowed to run trains on just one so far. Many of the others I know of from fellow modelers dont have the large radius (Or even HO scale) that supports large steam.
My verdict is simple. There does not appear to be that many layouts with adequate curvature to support a large inventory of steam ready to go in the display case.
One way to combat that is to develop the store layout with 32" curves on the closed mainline. That might actually attract those with big steam and desiel and maybe with good fortune form a railroad group right there that can support saturday morning classes or mutual projects that advances the store layout.
I think that OTM is doing a good job stocking just a few steam at a time and everything else the way the store inventory has been this year. It's a good mix.
Cheers.
A while back, I reported a trip to my LHS where I was blown away by a Big Boy. I think it was a Trix, because the Europeans understand that not everyone has the space for 30-inch curves. The Trix will take 18's, but won't really look right.
Then, a week or two ago, it happened again. This time it was the Lifelike/Walthers Heritage Series 0-6-0. Now, here's a small-layout engine. Beautifully detailed, even to the bell-pull lines. The sound was terrific. (I don't know whose decoder it is, but it was clean and crisp.) It didn't look like a shorty steamer, either. I'd be perfectly happy with one of these pulling a main-line load.
It's not my era, but, well, I've just got to have one of these. I've got a few old wooden passenger cars that are just dying to be turned into an excursion train. After that, well, I keep threatening to turn back the clock on my layout. Power up the Way-Back Machine, Sherman...
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley wrote: A while back, I reported a trip to my LHS where I was blown away by a Big Boy. I think it was a Trix, because the Europeans understand that not everyone has the space for 30-inch curves. The Trix will take 18's, but won't really look right. Then, a week or two ago, it happened again. This time it was the Lifelike/Walthers Heritage Series 0-6-0. Now, here's a small-layout engine. Beautifully detailed, even to the bell-pull lines. The sound was terrific. (I don't know whose decoder it is, but it was clean and crisp.) It didn't look like a shorty steamer, either. I'd be perfectly happy with one of these pulling a main-line load. It's not my era, but, well, I've just got to have one of these. I've got a few old wooden passenger cars that are just dying to be turned into an excursion train. After that, well, I keep threatening to turn back the clock on my layout. Power up the Way-Back Machine, Sherman...
It is a QSI decoder. I have two of these engines and they are the "perfect" switchers. Great low speed operation and a great sound system. They both work smoothly at 2 Smph and up. Buy two - best bargin out there.
I don't!
-Ed
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