Guess what? The northbound Texas Eagle, the train I was hoping to see last night, just went by! Juuuuuuuust a little off schedule, wonder what happened. Always enjoy seeing it go by, but not this late.
Fifedog: in the short time I've been on this forum many folks have posted stories about the way they were treated at a LHS. That's just scary to be treated in that manner. It's no small wonder we all get painted with a tarnished image by some customers. Let me be real frank, though, and say I'm far from perfect, and maybe someday I'll make a list of things I could do better (or someone will do it for me!) but if I ever treated a customer like that I guess I'd start questioning why I opened the door in the morning.
Safety Valve: you mentioned something about longtime customers helping others in the store....it seems like you've helped others in here at times and I do appreciate the help. It's rare to get a real busy time in here, but I know regulars like you (Ron) can tell when I get overwhelmed and my eyes start to glaze over that if someone has a question I don't mind you guys stepping in to help me out.
Once went into a furniture store with my wife - browsing for a sofa. Immediately we were followed by a salesperson - no greeting, just followed us like a shadow. We both felt very uncomfortable and as we were leaving the guy asked us if we had come in to get out of the rain. As an aside, the store is no longer in business.
the goat
My LHS horror story:
My home area suffered for years without a decent LHS. With great delight, I stopped in a fairly new shop specializing in trains! Hooray!
The owner was there, along with two other people (friends? customers?). The three of them never looked at me when I came in and no one greeted me. I walked around the small shop, looking at a sizable inventory of HO equipment (I'm in N scale) and looking over the HO shop layout that was under construction. (No, none of the three were working on the layout at the time. The owner was on a stool behind the counter, the other two were leaning on the end of the counter. All three were engaged in a lively conversation.) After several minutes of just wandering around and being ignored, I left.
I mentioned the experience to a friend of mine and he remarked that HIS experience at the shop had always been pleasant and the owner very helpful. Since I value my friend's judgement, I decided that the next time I was close, I would stop in the store again.
The second visit was as unpleasant as the first. Owner on stool behind counter, friend/customer leaning on the end of the counter. The two seemed content to chat with each other and completely ignore me. I looked at the store layout, noted how little progress had been made on the layout in the weeks since my last visit, glanced through the magazines on a rack and left.
On both trips to this shop, I never uttered a word and NO ONE ever spoke to me or even acknowledged that I was in the store.
The final chapter of the story unfolded some time later. I had a need for some materials for the layout I was building at the time. Since I was close, I went to this store again. When I walked up to the door, I could see through the window that the shelves were empty and the place dark. A sign was posted on the door. It read something like: "I had to close my shop because NOBODY supported it!" (Emphasis was HIS!)
How could I be surprised?
The prologue: Since that store closed, two other shops have opened near me, one even closer than the old shop, the other new store is a little farther away. EVERY TIME I walk in, I am greeted by the owner or clerk! A short exchange of pleasantries follows the greeting. Usually, I am asked if I am looking for anything in particular. If another customer is talking with the salesperson, I am generally included in the conversation with an inviting "what do you think about...?" question. In either shop, I have NEVER been ignored or taken for granted!
My only problem is not having enough money to spend in BOTH shops at the same time! With owners and sales people like they have, my greatest temptation is to OVER-SPEND!
I wish others could have that type of experience ALL the time! Since others on this thread have named names, I will, too: K-10's Trains, in Maryville, IL and Green Caboose Hobbies, in Alton, IL. THE places to shop! (Shameless plug!)
Darrell, quiet...for now
One Track Mind wrote: Guess what? The northbound Texas Eagle, the train I was hoping to see last night, just went by! Juuuuuuuust a little off schedule, wonder what happened. Always enjoy seeing it go by, but not this late.
DURN! Missed it again. Too busy Soldering switches this morning for the other LHS oh well. =)
Yes, sometimes I put in a word or two to another customer but try to be as neutral as possible, I would occasionally dig in and say "THE KAYDEE COUPLERS RULZS!!!! DITCH THE HORN AND HOOK~!" but.. not too often thank goodness.
ask then leave me alone!
The worst is the large sized store owner following you so you dont steal 10 year old Athearn cars.
Virginian wrote: and you "must" have a service agreement in their opinion. .
Reminds me of when I stopped into a local Radio Shack, they had a coupon in the paper for a free flashlight. Decent flashlight, 3-D cells, bought two packs of those. The salesman tried to sell me a service agreement/warranty on the FREE flashlight! I think it was about $2.50 for the $10.00 flashlight!
Thanks but no thanks!
I don't think I've had any bad experiences in hobby shops myself. We have so few in our area, and I know all of the owners, so they don't bother me. Always glad to help and special order for me if I need something.
What bugs me in other types of stores, if you are just browsing, the salesmen are all over you. BUT if you want some info, just try and find one!
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
I told my biggest horror story in a thread about a year ago. In essence, I was an eager 16 year old who finally earned enough money to buy and build his own layout. I picked my plan from Nine N Scale layouts, made a shopping list of track and took it to the LHS. I walked in, he looked at me like I was surely going to steal something and grunted, "What do you want?" I showed him my list of track pieces and he rolled his eyes back, shook his head and told me that wasn't the way to build a model railroad. I'm skipping details here, but I bought the track I could find but was so bummed. I didn't know that wasn't the way to build a model railroad. I almost quit after that experience, but the draw to model trains is too strong for me (and thankfully it appears my son has the same drawing). Anyway, I just happened to be there almost twenty years later kicking around the store. They had moved to an out of the way place, but it just happened to be near my sister, so her and her son and I went to the store to have a look around. When we walked in they looked at us like we were interrupting their work. The store was small and anything that cost more than $10 was locked up behind glass or hidden from view entirely. I asked about Unitrack and he went looking and came back a few minutes later with this cardboard box with varying pieces of Unitrack completely unorganized. I almost fell over when I saw the prices he had marked on them, too. I'm sure they were MSRP +15%. Its hard to believe he's still in business.
However, specific to your question, I think the thing you need to be aware of is that people like me who are a little more shy, would rather just take a glance at you and catch your eye, then have you come over and ask again if I need help. When I DO want help, I will look at the person first, and if I can't make eye contact, I'll approach them, but I think its always good to just keep an eye out and if you see them glancing at you regularly, chances are they probably have a question but maybe aren't sure what to ask exactly. If they don't ask any questions (especially if they've been looking for a long time), I don't think there is anything wrong with saying, "is there anything you'd like me to show you?" or something like that just to engage them a bit. If they are fine, then just back off again and do something else. They already know if they have questions to ask, they can ask you, but this guides them in a different direction and also helps break the ice with those that are maybe more shy or guarded. Just a thought.
Having worked at my LHS for a period of time, I feel quite welcome going there, and i always get a nice warm welcome, I don't get asked if i need help, but i know if i need to ask a question or if i need to get something out of the display cabinet (where they keep the locomotives) they are happy to oblige. most of the time I end up chatting to the guys at the shop which makes my visit well worth it.
On the other hand, I have walked into some stores and looked around for quite a bit, and got not one response from anyone there, I just leave and take my business elsewhere.
So OTM I think you have it right, keep it up. and if i'm ever your side of the drink, i'll be sure to visit you.
James, Brisbane Australia
Modelling AT&SF in the 90s
That's how I like to be treated in any store. Acknowlege my presence, offer to help, then leave me alone to browse. Especially in a hobby store. So many pretty things to look at! But when I want help or I'm ready to buy something that's in or behind the counter, be there to help me, unless you're busy with another customer, of course. I realise that anyone who comes in while I'm browsing and requires service is ahead of me in the line. The LHS that I shop at most treats me like that, and more. I always go there on a Saturday, so I'm only familiar with the clerk who is there that day. He always greets me when I come in, even if he's busy with another customer. If he's not busy, we'll even chat for a moment. He leaves me alone to browse and drool, but if there's no other customers, he'll come over to see if I need help and talk about the products I'm looking at. Sometimes I've brought my 3 y.o. granddaughter with me and he'll talk to her and give her candy from a bowl he keeps under the counter for little kids. Any questions why that LHS gets the bulk of my business?
I've had bad experiences too. My daughter asked me why I didn't go to a hobby shop in her part of town. It's not convenient for me to get to, but I thought I'd give it a try. They had virtually nothing in N scale except for a few items behind the counter and I didn't bring my binoculars to get a good look at them. The owner was talking to a couple of customers and like a previous poster, even getting right in his face didn't attract his attention. Nothing was going to interrupt that conversation. I finally got the attention of, I think it was his wife, behind the cash register and got her to bring down a couple of N scale items for me to buy. I've never been back.
My worst experience was in a Wal-Mart. I stopped at the audio/video department to buy some blank cassette tapes while my wife and I were in the store shopping. I'm very particular about my blank media and I knew exactly what I wanted and they had it. I had the tapes in my hands when a salesman came over and asked what I was looking for. I told him I had found it and started to move to the cash register. He told me that what I had wasn't the right stuff, I didn't want that kind of tape, and I should buy this other kind instead. He actually tried to take the tapes out of my hands and put these other tapes into my hands. Politeness didn't work on him and after a bit of struggling with him, I unfortunately lost my cool and yelled at him. I'm a big guy (but a pussycat inside) and he backed away with a scared look on his face like I was going to beat him up. I was embarrased all to heck, but it did get rid of him and I bought what I wanted. I just wonder how long his sales career with Wal-Mart lasted.
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
I myself had a few bad experiences with a hobby shop dealer/owner during the 1980's. The gentleman's name was Paul, and most of the time I got along with him just fine, had no problems. He had been in business since about 1959 or so, and was one of the original, or very early members of the Sioux Valley Model Engineers Society here in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Our HO scale club was founded in 1947 or '48 and I joined this club in 1980.
In 1982 I purchased my first brass steam locomotive from Paul, and even though I was happy with my purchase, it was not what I originally wanted in the first place. I had an interest in the Canadian Pacific Railway at that time, and I still do, and I had asked Paul to order a CPR 2-10-4 Selkirk class locomotive from Totem Pole Models of Vancouver, British Columbia. Paul's response at that time was that, "No, I don't do business with outfits like this any more." And he offered me another locomotive with the very same wheel arrangement from another importer. What I ended up with is a CB&Q M-4 class 2-10-4 from Nickel Plate Products. He told me that it was brand new and that it had been factory painted. Not knowning any better, I took him at his word. I later found out that it had been previously owned by someone else because the paint finish was much too fine to be a factory paint job. And in talking with one of our club members who was an authorized Walther's dealer at the time, he told me that Paul's statement about him not doing business with some importers was the other way around..........he was in the habit of writing nasty letters to some of his suppliers and for that reason they quit doing business with him.
On another occaision, Paul showed me an unpainted, brass CB&Q 4-8-2 from Overland Models. He wanted $210.00 for it. I told him that I would think about it for a while and later that night I got on the phone and called my other friend and I aske him what the running quality is of steamers imported by Overland. His answer was, "not very good" and that he and another one of our club members had worked on a number of steam locomotives from Overland and never had much luck in getting them to run smoothly. He told me that if I was patient, he could get me a nice, used steamer through a swap meet. I said to him, "O.K. I'll go back and tell Paul that I really don't want this engine."
I went back to Paul on the following Saturday and I told him that based on what one of his competitors had told me, I had changed my mind about purchasing this 4-8-2 from Overland. Paul got mad, and after I had left his shop, which was on the back side of his house, he called my other friend and proceeded to chew him out for having cost him a sale. My friend said to him, "F#%@ you, Paul! Ray doesn't need your help in making up his own mind!!"
I am convinced that his attitude about certain things and the way he treated customers in general drove a lot of people away from the hobby of model trains. And those of us in the local club used to refer to Paul as the "Great White" for obvious reasons. Paul died in September of 1987, and I figure the hobby has done well enough without him.
CANADIANPACIFIC2816
I stopped shopping at an electronics store for a while ( I won't say the name but it rhymes with circuit city lol " I dont care who you are, that's funny right there") because without asking me any details the salesman insisted I NEEDED a $500 receiver when I WANTED the $99 sale brand. "Oh you'll just return it in a month when you're not happy with it" was his pitch. It was for my parents who have a hard time with a cordless phone, never mind a super fancy overpriced stereo, and 10 YEARS LATER still have the $99 model that has just enough buttons to do its job and keep them happy.
A Hi How are ya..Let me know if there's anything you need is perfect..in places where I 've shopped on a regular basis , the salesstaff might tell me there's something new out I might want to check out in the roadname/era I model ( Amtrak and Norfolk Southern in Pennsylvania/present day)..and a Thomas play table to keep my daughter occupied while I peek around is always a plus!
keep up the good work and I'll maybe be by saturday for some more track
lisap wrote:I am glad to her there are some good shops out there, I don't know if it just NH or maybe it's Newengland in general but all of the shops I have been in have lots of stuff but all the train stuff is stuck in some back corner some where it would be nice if I could find a shop that was mostly( if not all) trains.
Maine Trains, North East Trains (Peabody MA, Acton Model Railroad Center,Acton MA and of course Charles RO, Malden MA..are a few I can recommend having shopped at all of them when I lived in Boston. All are listed in Model Railroader for addys and phone #'s and all are 100% trains ( give or take)
Happy $hopping!
I have not read all the post's but just saying Hi and let them walk around is not the best way to help them or your self.
Let them know you know they are there, that is a biggie. But never ask them "can I help you" buyers are afraid of salesman's for reason. You know what you have, but they have no clue to what you have.
When they stop and look at something, step up and tell them about what they are looking at. At this point do a warm up asking what they are modeling, what they have and what they think they want to inprove over what they have.
From that show them what you think will help them in there quest. Tell them what you know about it and point out the strong points or what it has that is like what they have. But be honest, if it is not as good as what they have, not the right era or out of there prices range let them know.
Give them chooise as well, If they like 2 cars asking them which one they want to take with them if not both. Guess like chooise (sorry about the bad spelling) that way they feel like they are in control.
Main thing is try to close, it does not need to be high pressuer either. Close means to ask them to buy. It could be as simple as before the leave the shop say " you seem to like that PK E-6, would you like to take it with you?"
I have made my living for the last 28 years in some form off sale's. But I think of my self as a tour guide. I don't shuv something down there throasts, just find out there need's by asking questions and then fill there needs with what I have.
Best thing that can happen is to have a guest find a good, informed and honest saleperson/ tour guide. It happened today at work. Older couple thought they knew what they need what they needed for a good night sleep with a bad back. I knew better and showed them a lower pressuer point sleep system would help keep there spine in a linement. They wanted a hard mattress and went to another store.The Saleman there just wanted the $ and pushed them to buy.
They walked and called me and bought over the phone me. It was $500.00 more than what they where showen, but knew I had there best intreast in mind. Plus I was able to show how it would improve there life. Or in HO world layout.
You asked about Arm Twisters. A bad saleperson will grap there arm and yanking it off. They get one sale and that is it. A good salesperson will get to know there needs and wants and get repeat businnes.
I wish the frist time I went to a LHS there was a goos salesman was there. Eric was a good guy, but never informed me about the bad buys I was making. He let me buy 5 Pancake LL F-7's and 30 LL rolling stock. If he had treat me like I treat my customer he would have knew my wants and showed why I should have bought. Spectrem, PK's and Athearns. Now I have around 100 pices of cheap stuff that I am spending more to up grade than I paid for the junk in the first places.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken wrote: I wish the frist time I went to a LHS there was a good salesman was there. Eric was a good guy, but never informed me about the bad buys I was making. He let me buy 5 Pancake LL F-7's and 30 LL rolling stock. If he had treat me like I treat my customer he would have knew my wants and showed why I should have bought. Spectrem, PK's and Athearns. Now I have around 100 pices of cheap stuff that I am spending more to up grade than I paid for the junk in the first places.
I wish the frist time I went to a LHS there was a good salesman was there. Eric was a good guy, but never informed me about the bad buys I was making. He let me buy 5 Pancake LL F-7's and 30 LL rolling stock. If he had treat me like I treat my customer he would have knew my wants and showed why I should have bought. Spectrem, PK's and Athearns. Now I have around 100 pices of cheap stuff that I am spending more to up grade than I paid for the junk in the first places.
I dont want to start a battle but...when you talk of ugrading from cheap stuff and still include Bachmann and LifeLike? Isnt that the same as military intelligence and an honest politician?
Oh, and to be fair I do N scale...so those brands in HO or others that you may model may be good, but in N they are the bottom of the barrel (in other words---pure junk!). Now to be even more fair LL has done two decent units, their new E6's and th S series switches-which I believe has a little to do with Walthers.
Athearn is coming along rather nicely so I tend to classify them with Roundhouse and Atlas. Well, let me shut up. I know I have already cheesed off a lot of poeple already. I dont need to dig a hole any deeper.
Bachmann and LL are bottom of the barrel when it comes to thier main product line. LL P2K and P1K are actually pretty good models. Bachmann has thier Spectrum brand and it is also very good.
I'm surprised I thought that the Spectrum N Scale stuff was actually pretty good. My brother swears by it, and at the standard brand.
I have to say that I am pretty happy with the two main hobby stores here. Both have real helpful staff, and a staff of regulars. Both knowledgeable and friendly.
One Track Mind wrote: Hi fellow forum members, I'll try not to make this similar to a poll, but I would be curious to know your thoughts. When I go into a store, say a used record shop or something, I like be acknowledged that I've walked into the store, and that if I have a question someone is available, but then I basically like to be left alone to browse. No arm-twisting, no hard selling, no suggestive selling, whatever you want to call it. So when someone comes into my store, I say "Hi, howyadoin, let me know if I can help you find anything" and then they are on their own until they need me. Do most of you guys like that approach in a model train shop? Sometimes, like twice today, someone came in, I said "hi" and they walked around for quite awhile and then walked out without saying anything and that makes me feel like I didn't do my job. I don't want people to feel ignored, but I don't want to follow them around either. What do you think? Thank-you for your thoughts.
Hi fellow forum members, I'll try not to make this similar to a poll, but I would be curious to know your thoughts.
When I go into a store, say a used record shop or something, I like be acknowledged that I've walked into the store, and that if I have a question someone is available, but then I basically like to be left alone to browse. No arm-twisting, no hard selling, no suggestive selling, whatever you want to call it.
So when someone comes into my store, I say "Hi, howyadoin, let me know if I can help you find anything" and then they are on their own until they need me.
Do most of you guys like that approach in a model train shop?
Sometimes, like twice today, someone came in, I said "hi" and they walked around for quite awhile and then walked out without saying anything and that makes me feel like I didn't do my job. I don't want people to feel ignored, but I don't want to follow them around either.
What do you think? Thank-you for your thoughts.
Boss to me: Greet the customers closer to the door.
Customer enters, man and woman.
Me: Hi. How are you tonight?
Man: Good, thank you(most customers go directly to, "just looking) we're just going to browse a minute.
Me: Ok, if you need anything, let ME know.
<<<ten seconds later>>>
Man: (to the Boss)can you tell me about this?
Me(to myself): I'm not standing that close to the front door ever again!
---------------------------
We had a little system going. Get the customer the item he came in for, and if there was a selection, get him into the best that he feels comfortable affording. Then make sure he's got the needed accessories or related items. Lastly, offer him ONE item unrelated to his purchase and on that item only, do take no for the first answer and let it go. The same company now tells its slaves to offer every customer a cellular phone, every time they visit. It is damned annoying. I've never been treated like tht at a hobby store. On the other hand, walking into a store and not being acknowledged usually winds up with them not getting my business, even if I NEED what they have. That brings us into the needs/wants discussion. The top down sales approach. The generate repeat business makes your job easier later philosophy. Which lesson do we teach here next? I'm pretty easy going, but if people ignor me, they obviously don't want my business and if they suggest something which I didn't come in for and don't accept my no as the only answer, they lose my business. Just ask the folks at Chili's who forced their wait staff to push alcohol items hard. So hard the loser my wife and I had waiting on us managed to insult my beautiful wife.(really classy guy got one cent tip and a really messy table to clean up)
I've only had over twenty five years retail sales experience, so I'm no expert.