Do you like arm-twisters at model train shops?

[One Track Mind]

Hi fellow forum members, I'll try not to make this similar to a poll, but I would be curious to know your thoughts.

When I go into a store, say a used record shop or something, I like be acknowledged that I've walked into the store, and that if I have a question someone is available, but then I basically like to be left alone to browse. No arm-twisting, no hard selling, no suggestive selling, whatever you want to call it.

So when someone comes into my store, I say "Hi, howyadoin, let me know if I can help you find anything" and then they are on their own until they need me.

Do most of you guys like that approach in a model train shop?

Sometimes, like twice today, someone came in, I said "hi" and they walked around for quite awhile and then walked out without saying anything and that makes me feel like I didn't do my job. I don't want people to feel ignored, but I don't want to follow them around either.

What do you think? Thank-you for your thoughts.

[jbloch]

I think you're right on.  That's what I usually want--easily available if I have a question (since I'm a newbie I'll usually have several)--but sometimes I like to just browse.  Maybe the guy who just walked out was another LHS owner who was scouting out your prices!!(HaHa)

I'd just keep doing what you're doing--seems like an even handed approach.

Jim

[TrainFreak409]

I'm in sales myself, except I sell Bose audio equipment, not trains. Used to sell trains...But not anymore...

When I worked at the train store...I would always acknowledge that someone walked in through the door. I was happily greet them, and then ask if they needed help with anything. Most people usually say "Just browsing/looking," it's a natural response. So I would always tell them that I would be available to answer any questions or help them get something.

Now that I'm at Bose...It is totally different due to the nature of the store. I am no longer seen as the first time employee working happily for a little train store...I am the evil salesman waiting to take the customer's money. I'm ignored frequently, and even talked rudely to. One time, my favorite example; someone was looking at a pair of speakers...All around them for connections and all, and I asked if he had any questions; he promptly told me, "Space! Give me space. I'm just looking," all the while making arm gestures around him as if he had an anti-assistance bubble that I couldn't see and had invaded.

It is my job to make sure everyone gets the help they need...And although I do feel that I didn't do my job when someone ignores me completely...It just can't be helped sometimes. I generally think..."Man, that was kind of rude...Good thing I was raised better than that."

And yes, you are doing the right thing by not hovering over the customer. As long as you offer your service and knowledge, you are doing no wrong.

[cjcrescent]

OTM;

I don't like it if someone doesn't at least acknowledge that I'm there. But I hate it even more when I go to a store and then have someone try to sell me the latest and greatest from BLI, Bowser, Athearn, etc without knowing what I am modeling or what my goals are.

I was in one of our LHS a few years ago, and one of the owners actually told me that I really didn't want what I was needing at that time, but another model that was TOTALLY different, (modern) from the era I have always been buying models for,(steam).

I left without making a purchase. After talking with several others that had a similar experience, I found that this was the "tactic" the owners used to make more sales. Needless to say the LHS soon closed its doors.

[Razorclaw]

i agree. arm-twisters are the type that you feel like turning around and walking out. Or being rude and telling them to make like a bird and fly away.  Personally i like going into a train shop,have the owner or person in charge say" hello(or hi),how are you doing,if there is anything i can help you with just let me know?" then they walk away and you can look to your heart's content. if you need anything,you can ask them. When i leave without buying anything,i usually try to remember to say good-bye. as in turn they will say "thanks for looking. Come again."

 

    bottem line is i think you are doing the right thing.   by the way,where is your shop located?

 

 

   stephen

[Anonymous]

Well I personally hate arm twisters.  I usually walk in and greet the owner of my LHS and ask him anything new I just gotta have to break the ice. Then he goes through the list of things that have come in that I might be interested in. He doesn't try to sell it to me or force it on me just tells me about it.  I like to know in a store that help is there if I need it but they don't need to hold my hand.  I usually stand by the counter and talk with the fellow MR in the shop and I will step aside when somebody comes up to buy something or ask a question....Sounds like you got a great store and attitude...Keep it up...

 

[CSX_road_slug]

...Now that I'm at Bose...It is totally different due to the nature of the store. I am no longer seen as the first time employee working happily for a little train store...I am the evil salesman waiting to take the customer's money. I'm ignored frequently, and even talked rudely to...

Scott, sorry you have to deal with jerks like that.  Probably many of them compare a Bose store to an upscale auto dealership: They figure you have to have lots of money to even think of going in such a place, and they assume that they are on some higher social plane [than the store employees] because of their money.  Sort of like, "I can address you, but don't you dare talk to ME!"

One-Track, let me share a little story about a train shop I visited in early 1983, in a business park in south Columbia, Maryland:  I walked into the store - which was actually the retail area for a small factory - to have a look around.  I saw lots of O-scale stuff but nothing in my scale.  I wanted to ask the guy behind the counter if this was all they sold, but he was chatting casually with one of his buddies.  I waited for him to pause, but he just kept right on yapping.  I leaned against the counter, right in his line of vision so he'd know I was there --- but still, not even an acknowledgement of my presence.  I was amazed that a shopkeeper could be so clueless about courtesy, let alone customer service.  Finally I just stormed out of there, resolving to never do business with that company EVER!

The name of the company? Why, Mikes Train House of course!

[AntonioFP45]

Good thread!

Basically if the guy or lady at the counter  looks, smiles and says "Hi! If I can help you don't hesitate to let me know" then that for me is a good "PR" and chances are I'll visit again.

An incident I'd like to forget is when I visited a train show during 2004 in Sarasota Florida.  I went to a DCC vendor's booth who had a small "demo" layout set up with a couple of locomotives.  I told the gentleman that I was interested in the Digitrax Zephyr. Man!  Right away he went off and started babbling about NCE like a used car salesman!   He shoved an NCE controller in my hand and had me run a dcc equipped Athearn undec BB F7 (with a hanging headlight bulb in the cab).  His comments:  "Here! See?  See how easy that is?! Try the lighting effects! Piece of cake!! Real easy!"  My blood pressure was slowly going up as he spoke, but I decided to remain polite.  I kept staring at the Zephyr controller on the layout, which of course was unplugged at the moment. I asked him if I could run the mallet that was parked on the siding. His quick answer "No, I don't want to run that one".    I'm thinking:  This guy wants to promote DCC?  His customer skills stunk.

I was so dissappointed, because this vendor didn't realize that he and I had actually been e-mailing each other over the past month! I had been asking him dcc questions and his replies had been cordial....over the internet. 

Anyway, I decided not to bother identifyng myself.  I decided at that time to stick with Litchfield Station or Tony's Trains.   His arm twisting, pushy attitude cost him a potentially loyal customer.

 

[Anonymous]

 I kept staring at the Zephyr controller on the layout, which of course was unplugged at the moment. I asked him if I could run the mallet that was parked on the siding. His quick answer "No, I don't want to run that one".    I'm thinking:  This guy wants to promote DCC?  His customer skills stunk.

 

HA HA HA HA HA!!!

I have dealt with people like that.  All I want in a hobby shop is what I want, a decent price, and maybe a nod when I enter.  Dont follow me, pester me, or ask me 20 questions unless I am drooling at the mouth looking for a 'HO-G-N scale Z gauge'....

Your doing the right thing, and it will show.  Some people take thier jobs, preferences and hobbies WAY to seriously.  Case in point...Charles Manson!

[selector]

I make it a point to walk to the counter (the trains section of the store is at the back, with its own counter) and I greet the owner/clerk.  I tell them what I'm there for, after a brief exchange of pleasantries, and they invariably ask a quesition, check inventory lists, or take me to where the item is.  After a few minutes, they leave me to my own devices, and I like it that way.  More often than not, I will make at least one purchase, but many times I'll eventually thank them and leave without buying. 

 I like to be in charge of my shopping experience, and the smart retailers sense that.

[Anonymous]

OTM, I think there are a few customers like that everywhere no matter what store.

Most of the people I see coming to your place usually spends time swapping stories, catching up on that waited-for model (Is it in yet?) or going thru looking for that one item.

In Trucking, Ive seen shippers and recievers enjoy first class service from me and the wife team with very expensive loads that were "Problem loads" that we worked hard to deliver asap because some singles could not do it.

These customers were generally nice and very happy to see thier freight but once in a while you get one that does not acknowledge the existance of that truck, crew and paperwork. Just a grunt and a scribble of a pen and were done.

Oh well.

I do have a pet peeve at malls (Some place I dont go to much anymore) is being intercepted by a herd of sales people intent on grabbing me by the hand and dragging me past the high dollar stuff asking if I would like to buy, layaway, pay for, take home, try on, examine and otherwise be hounded.

The best stores I have seen are those such as yours that trade greetings, catch up on the latest and get browsing time. I do feel guilty at times for spending hours and not buying much but looking at the orders months in advance waiting on the factory with those pre-orders and limited runs.... it seems to balance out.

I only ran into one bad Hobby Shop in my life and that one whew... I walked in this one place on the east coast seeing it was a new hobby shop to explore. The greeting was a growl and a tirade about how crappy some people were. Obviously I was not the target, but I must have arrived at a particularly bad time.

I stayed all of 20 seconds. I aint going to be back =) and that was about 20 years ago.

[GearDrivenSteam]

I'm a big dude, so I hardly ever have that problem. When I do, I just give um the evil eye, and they go away.

[SOU Fan]

Your doing the right thing.  I hate it when they follow you around.  It's best when they say Hello and then ask if you have any questions or if you need help finding anything.

 

[BRAKIE]

When I walk into a hobby shop greet me and let me go about my business..I will usually spend more money that way.Twist my arm and the on-line shops will get my order for the items I was going to BUY in YOUR SHOP..

 

[DrummingTrainfan]

I know most of the owners/managers of the LHS's I go to, so I normally go in, share some words and go on.

The owner of the LHS I go to for engines and rolling stock is a very smart salesman; he always keeps track of what his customers buy (he has a very loyal clientelle) so that he always has the printout of the new stuff that will be coming out that he knows his customers will be interested in. Unfortunately he has throat cancer so his hours are spontanious .

[Anonymous]

I know most of the owners/managers of the LHS's I go to, so I normally go in, share some words and go on.

The owner of the LHS I go to for engines and rolling stock is a very smart salesman; he always keeps track of what his customers buy (he has a very loyal clientelle) so that he always has the printout of the new stuff that will be coming out that he knows his customers will be interested in. Unfortunately he has throat cancer so his hours are spontanious .

 

That's too bad. I hope his prognosis is good.

[tomikawaTT]

Sounds to me that you've got the right approach.

Since I model in a minority (of one, I'm beginning to think!) scale, there is very little of use to me in the stock of even the most fully equipped LHS.  I appreciate being acknowledged, but I really don't want to know about all of the latest and greatest things I can't use.

If I encounter the hard sell, I simply nod and walk out.  In a shop like yours, I'll probably walk out with some Kadee #6 couplers or an under-track magnet.  Even if I found absolutely nothing in your inventory, you would get a "thank you" as I left unless you were busy with a customer.

Of course, there's one thing that throws a chock under the wheel of all but the most determined hard-seller.  When asked, "What scale (or gauge) are you lookin' for?" I answer (truthfully) "1:80 scale, 16.5mm gauge."  That usually gets a stunned look and a mumbled, "Well, let me know if you need anythin'."

(In Japan, I'd simply load his arms with boxes, of my choice!)

Chuck  (HOj, 1:80 scale, 16.5mm gauge, Japanese prototype)

[Milwhiawatha]

Your doing the right thing I wish a local hobby shop around these parts would get someone to say hi but they it ther and I dont think they know anything bout hobbies. But then theres Walthers showroom and there you get respect.

[Anonymous]

Sounds to me that you've got the right approach.

Since I model in a minority (of one, I'm beginning to think!) scale, there is very little of use to me in the stock of even the most fully equipped LHS.  I appreciate being acknowledged, but I really don't want to know about all of the latest and greatest things I can't use.

If I encounter the hard sell, I simply nod and walk out.  In a shop like yours, I'll probably walk out with some Kadee #6 couplers or an under-track magnet.  Even if I found absolutely nothing in your inventory, you would get a "thank you" as I left unless you were busy with a customer.

Of course, there's one thing that throws a chock under the wheel of all but the most determined hard-seller.  When asked, "What scale (or gauge) are you lookin' for?" I answer (truthfully) "1:80 scale, 16.5mm gauge."  That usually gets a stunned look and a mumbled, "Well, let me know if you need anythin'."

(In Japan, I'd simply load his arms with boxes, of my choice!)

Chuck  (HOj, 1:80 scale, 16.5mm gauge, Japanese prototype)

I once spent a week researching a particular Camcorder, with it being a very expensive purchase I wanted it to be right the first time. I went down to the retailer expecting battle with the feeding sharks smelling a fat commission.

I was handed the exact camera, asked if I had any questions, Fired off many specific questions and requests for other accessories also very specific. The sales lady stood up to my interrogation and I left a very happy customer.

Im not sure if I want to shop in Japan =) What's in it for our HO?

[philo426]

I prefer to exchange brief greetings and then just browse on my own.I will not tolerate the so called "Hard sell" and do not like the salesperson to follow me around.I usually have a good idea what I want when I go to the LHS,so salesmanship is ineffective on me.My local LHS's have the right attitude;They acknowledge my presence and then allow me to look around unbothered.

[boxcar_jim]

I really think you have the right approach, its a good balance between the hard sell - which would certainly get me walking out the door and what I get at my LHS which is being completely ignored unless go to the counter to buy something.

Bob - if you ever read this (and I don't suspect you do) take note - I've spent enough in your store over the years to at least get acknowledged.

[Anonymous]

Hi, I'm new here and new to the hobby(started about 1 year ago) So when I go into a shop I think the owners see NEWBE written across my fore-head or sothing because I get lots of "help" from most. I even had one sales man following me around as if I was a child who might break something(I'll be 40 next month) so I've had my share of pushiness from shops. I like your aproach much better. I wish I could find a shop like yours near me(the only one I've found so far has gone under).

[CAZEPHYR]

Hi fellow forum members, I'll try not to make this similar to a poll, but I would be curious to know your thoughts.

So when someone comes into my store, I say "Hi, howyadoin, let me know if I can help you find anything" and then they are on their own until they need me.

Do most of you guys like that approach in a model train shop?

Sometimes, like twice today, someone came in, I said "hi" and they walked around for quite awhile and then walked out without saying anything and that makes me feel like I didn't do my job. I don't want people to feel ignored, but I don't want to follow them around either.

What do you think? Thank-you for your thoughts.

You will always have customers that will look and leave without buying anything as that is the nature of the hobby.   You may not have anything they were looking for or at the price they wanted to pay.

I normally go into stores when I am on the road and try to find something to buy.   Ocassionaly, I find a store that has so little stock overall it is hard to pick up anything that I need.   Some of your older customers have been shopping for over forty years and we have accumated too much already.

Most people will say thank you when they leave, but I am sure a few do not.

Don't let that stop you from saying something like  "  Thank you for coming and come back again."   

Not everyone is buying today, but if you are friendly, they probably will come back.

 

 

 

[chessiecat]

I've known the owner of my favorite hobby shop for over 30 years and he knows when I walk in that I know what I want and if I can't find it I ask. He always greets me no matter how busy he is, and let's me know if I need anything just ask. He will tell me what's new and in stock and I decide if I want it.I usually end up spending the whole day there as it is a pretty good drive to get there.  I usually look the whole store over to see if there is anything I will need in the future. I don't feel pressured and I like that .    Jim

[rudywa]

I definitely appreciate the acknowledgement of entering a business and not being ignored, and I especially like it when someone offers..."If I can be of any help let me know" I was in sales while going through college and I did it in hardware and major appliances and nothing boosts your customer base more than the offer to help, how can you not like it, and if you don't then a friendly, no thank you works too. Keep going, I think you've got it right and will you come to Salt Lake City and teach the stores here how to do that....?

[One Track Mind]

Thanks for all the replies so far everybody. I've been at this nearly 9 years but I've often wondered about this. Again, it's very cool to hear from a broad spectrum of folks on this forum. Still down here tonight catching up on work. Thanks to a couple of shipping snafus everything came in at about 4 this afternoon instead of on Wed, Thu and today...so instead of coming in tomorrow, uh, later today...I got it mostly put up tonight. Start fresh in the morning, hoping for a good day tom,er, later today. Thought I might try and stay until the Texas Eagle went by here, but amtrak.com indicates a service disruption. To answer a couple of questions and comments...I really don't use the "quote" boxes but here goes:

Jim: "another LHS owner scouting prices." Hadn't thought of that, but my main competitor used to be one of my best customers so I don't worry about him. We're still good friends. I AM pretty sure that Wal-Mart sends their spies in here, but no real proof!

Stephen: "where is my shop located?" As some of you no doubt remember, I was and still am a little worried about the "not promoting your own shop" on this forum. But I think we'll answer this one since like an idiot I used my store name for an ID on this forum anyway and then the town is listed there too, to the left...so...Stephen I think you are in Texas, I'm up I-30 a piece here in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Safety Valve: Ron...thanks again for all of your business here. You should never feel guilty for browsing awhile here though! You are always welcome to spend as much time here as you like.

DrummingRailfan: sorry to hear about your LHS owner's health. Hopefully all will work out OK. Always feel a kindred spirit with these other owners even if I don't know them. I said a prayer for him.

Lisa and the other newbies that answer: thank goodness for your interest in our hobby! But I gotta tell you, new folks scare the bejeezus out of me because you don't want to overwhelm folks with a lot of technical info, yet you want to make sure they have everything they need, but I never try to sell anyone new to model railroading something that they don't need. I know sometimes I could get some new customers to buy an armload full of stuff they don't need but as others have already mentioned, even a guy like me with no business education knows that doing this is just not good business and not real ethical, either.

CAZEPHYR: love your ID...the California Zephyr was the first train I ever photographed! OK, the truth, at the time it was called the San Francisco Zephyr, but.... I hope I didn't imply by my post that I expect everyone who comes in here to buy something. It's just that if I'm busy with another customer and they get out the door without me saying my usual "thanks for stopping by" or something, then I worry that they may think I was so rude that I didn't even notice them leaving. (and then, God forbid, they write on a forum about what a rude ************ that guy in Little Rock was!) I always hope they still felt welcomed in here.

Rudywa: Hopefully nothing would ever go so bad here that I would have to move to another city. Nothing against Utah, but I think the guys over in Memphis would be mad if I didn't move over there first!!! They are always joking about my store being the best (or only) train store in Memphis. But I like it here in Arkansas...this state has been real good to me.

Well I guess the Texas Eagle won't be seen by me tonight. I'm going home. Thanks again for all the replies so far, happy to hear I seem to be on the right, uh, track.

 

 

[twhite]

I'm pretty lucky at my two LHS's here in the Sacramento area--I'm pretty well known for the most part, and at Bruce's, we've got a standing joke about me because I come in, grin and wave at the guys and just go about my business (I've got the place memorized) and when I get the stuff to the counter, if it's not Bruce that's checking me out, he'll usually say to the clerk "Watch out, he shops too fast, better ask him if he's sure he's got everything."  Usually, Bruce is right--I shop too fast and I about 50% of the time, I DON'T have everything I went in for.  For instance, last week I completely overlooked the new stock of Athearn 50' Santa Fe WWII reefers. 

The other LHS, Railroad Hobbies in Roseville is a little more formal--but nicely so.  I"m always greeted at the door with "Can I help you find anything?"  and when I grin and say that I'm just there to see what hits me, I'm pretty much left alone until I pop the question--"Where do you keep the--?" and then one of the very knowledgeable and pleasant guys is right there to show me. 

Nice thing about both hobby shops, though, they know me enough to let me know if something that they think I might be really interested in has come in.  No hard sell, just information.  I think they all know that I'll probably buy it, anyway, LOL!   And dang it, both hobby shops have their consignment brass loco cases right by the front door.  Now, I ask you, is THAT fair, LOL?

Good places, good people.  I keep going back.

Tom

 

[Virginian]

If you like pushy, be sure to shop at H.H. Gregg  (electronics and appliances).  They will always try to talk you into a higher priced model than the one you are looking at (comission), and you "must" have a service agreement in their opinion.  We bought several things there years ago, and as they always had a good selection of the latest stuff, we often stopped to look around.  They never talked me into anything, and I decided I could live without the hassle, so I never set foot in the place anymore.

[Anonymous]

Well, Ive been trying to intercept the Eagle since it mostly runs by night. Maybe soon I'll catch it. (Video)

You should see some of the stores that have help that displays little or no interest in helping the customer. I recall a friend who was set to spend some money on a Home Stereo and Television for Football games years ago and the store he went to showed very little motivation to help him, they literally saw that money walk out in a few seconds. I realize the store is not trains but it's the concept im trying to show.

Sometimes you over hear a new customer comment on how nice that 2 dollar tyco boxcar might look on thier new loop of track while standing in the sea of 30 dollar ready-to-run models?

I wonder how much fellow customers motivate or "guide" others in thier hobby purchases? 

[fifedog]

Hey O-T-W, here's a reverse arm-twister fer ya.  This week I walk into my closest hobby store (OVERLEA HOBBIES) because I had a few minutes before Picking up Mrs. Fifedog. I'm in there 2 minutes at the counter browsing, with the owner 8 feet away on his bar stool. Just me and him. Small store. He finally says "Looking for something?"---no greeting...  I told him that I was looking for 2 O scale Plasticville through truss bridges. I had already spotted that he carried new plasticville (green packaging). He said no. I asked him if he could order them for me.  He paused while looking at me, "got the number?"  I paused,"noooooo". He replied, "How do you expect me to order it without the number". Eye contact---awkward long pause.  Then he gets off his barstool to reach for the catalogs a few feet to his right, and I proclaimed,"don't even bother", and made my exit,never to return.