Rivarossi Locomotive from 1960s

[Anonymous]

I inherited my grandfathers HO scale trains recently. He passed away 30+ yrs ago and the stuff has been in storage since then. It's all 1960s vintage stuff. One of the engines is a Rivarossi locomotive(0-8-0) with the drive in the tender coupled to the engine to drive the engine via a plastic shaft. No markings on it other than a 280 on the tender. In any case, the locomotive has some repair issues, missing some parts. Is it possible to acquire replacement parts? Any ideas where? Been looking on e-bay but it's near impossible to find the exact same engine. Is it possible this engine is worth the trouble to fix? It has sentimental value so that in of itself is worth going to the effort of fixing it.

There are also some plastic and metal locomotives that are in good shape but likely need new motors(Mantua shifters). Also has some diesels(Athearn). Is it worth the effort to rehabilitate these units?

Sorry if these questions have been asked a million times.

[Anonymous]

You might contact rivarossi about the 0-8-0. Im sure they dont make that exact engine anymore but the new parts might be compatible. Also look at places like northwest short line (reffered to here as NWSL). The athearn diesels should be easy to repair (you cant break those things) and once you get them fixed they should give you many more years of service. If they have been sitting around for 30 years they may just need a good cleaning and some new lube. The mantua shifters are a toss-up in my book. They wont fetch too much on ebay, but shouldnt be too hard to fix either. Its really up to you.

[fwdguy]

Hello,

I would try contacting Golf Manor Hobbies for parts.

Golf Manor Hobbies
Cincinnati, Ohio USA
[phone]
[phone] (Fax)


www.golfmanorhobbies.com

[Berk-fan284]

I agree with fwdguy call Golf Manor ( website is at: www.GOLFMANORHOBBIES.com)they should have the parts. Rivarossi was bought out by Hornby a while ago and despite Hornby's Rivarossi listings anyone in my area that deals in Rivarossi dont' have any idea when they are going to get parts, new release locomotives or cars.

[cacole]

Considering the age of the Rivarossi, it might not be worth trying to rehabilitate because it no doubt has deep wheel flanges that won't go through Atlas turnouts or crossing diamonds without stalling. If you want to make it operational, you're going to need Peco track or another European brand that can handle a European locomotive's wheels. My old Rivarossi models are just display items.

The Athearn's are worth cleaning up, lubricating, and running.

[dknelson]

I am sure that is the Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0. Rivarossi has modified the engine since and even by the late 1960s I think it had the engine in the cab. In its day the detail was considered exquisite. Tender drive has its problems -- it tended to be noisy and sometimes the tender would shake in an odd way. And of course the pulling power was reduced because you were pulling a heavy tender. But I recollect that as being one of the better tender drives, next to the old old Mantua "general" 4-4-0. The common advantage they had was that the tender could be somewhat heavy.
My own advice would be to set the 0-8-0 aside and not put retail dollars into repair parts, but keep an eye out at swap meets for one. Assuming your tender drive still works and the missing parts are more or less cosmetic, almost any Rivarossi/AHM IHB 0-8-0 should be raidable for parts. These were popular train set engines in the 1960s (anyone remember the "Thunder Line" of trainsets?) and with luck some kid beat up his engine but did not destroy the parts you need.
I was at the swap meet in DuPage Illinois two years ago and a guy was selling an entire box full of Rivarossi 0-8-0s for $10 each.
Dave Nelson

[joeyegarner]

Yo Boss, what I tell everyone it to look on E-Bay, you can find almost anything there.

[Anonymous]

It has a marking of 1515 on the bottom side of the locomotive. Not sure if that means anything. I've looked at some of the pictures on the internet of the Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0 and this doesn't appear to be it. The locomotive I have has far less detail in it than the Indiana Harbor Belt units I've seen on the internet. My grandfather wasn't a rich man and I suspect this unit might have been a bottom of the line Rivarossi. As I understand it the Rivarossi's were expensive back in that day(and they appear to still be pricey).

[emdgp92]

I've heard of people turning down the deep flanges with a file...but I don't know how wellthat works. Maybe you could replace the wheelsets with newer items?

As for the Athearns, the parts are still available, and their engines tend to go on forever. They're easy to work on and run well. My old F7 recently took a trip to the workshop floor, and was fine...other than having a bent handrail or two, and the cab windows knocked out. But, it still ran great :)

[MisterBeasley]

I've got a bunch of old equipment from that era that I've pulled out of the attic this year. I was able to get 1 gear-drive Athearn F7 running well enough to install a decoder, but I did need to add power pickups to the other half of the wheels to maintain good contact. The rest of my Athearns, 1 gear and 3 belt-drive units, don't run well at all even after cleaning and lubrication. I did put decoders in a couple of them, but they ran so poorly that I cannibalized the decoders for something else, took out the motors and now they run as dummies.

My father-in-law gave me some Rivarossi 0-6-0's and 0-4-0's that he had. Most have the very large flanges, and they won't even run on flat Atlas code 100 flex track, let alone make it through turnouts. The flanges bump up against the ties and lift the wheels clean off the rails. One of them, though, has smaller flanges and runs around well enough that it will get the full couplers-and-decoder beauty treatment one of these days.

Before you put good money into restoring those old diesels, take a look at what's available in new equipment. After buying a P2K GP-9 brand new for $40, I realized that I couldn't restore the innards of one of my old ones for that, and the new models have such better detailing, too.

[Darth Santa Fe]

Do you have a picture of the 0-8-0? And what kinds of parts are missing? If it's just detail parts like bells and handrail wire, then you could replace those easily.[:)][:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

The part that it's missing is unfortunately the metal plate that covers the gears/wheels on the bottom side of the engine. The coupling appears to be missing a part but that could easily be fabricated from metal tube stock. That metal plate is a different story. It looks like it's flat for the most part but I am guessing there's a punched relief for the gear that protrudes from one wheel. Or is it typical for that gear simply to be exposed through the plate via a hole in the plate?

One part of the front "cow catcher" is missing(excuse my terms if they are wrong). That's just cosmetic, although important, isn't a show stopper. Otherwise it is in flawless physical condition.

I believe I can get this thing into runnable shape if I can either fabricate or find a replacement piece to cover the wheels.

I've confirmed that 1515 means it was a yard goat. I found an old auction that sold one.

I could post a picture, what's the standard way of doing it on this forum?

It's getting fairly inexpensive these days to do sheet metal fabrication in prototype quantities. I may go that route to fabricate the bottom piece and the missing coupler if I can't find another used unit.

I appreciate everyone's input, it has been very helpful in helping me decide what I am going to do here.

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 235301

Or is it typical for that gear simply to be exposed through the plate via a hole in the plate?

I believe so. I have two old Rivarossi steam engines and the gear just comes through a square hole in the plate. I think it would be easy to make a new one.[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 235301

I could post a picture, what's the standard way of doing it on this forum?

You have to register an account at a photo website like Photobucket.com. It's free if you use Photobucket. Then you copy the link to the picture and put it in two boxes that look like this: [ img][ /img] (leave the spaces out for it to work)

And it's just that easy.[:D]

[MisterBeasley]

I use http://www.railimages.com for my postings. It's "free," but a small donation is appreciated.

You could probably make that cover plate out of styrene rather than metal. It's cheaper and easier to fabricate, and it's also an insulator in case you derail - the styrene won't short across your tracks.

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

You could probably make that cover plate out of styrene rather than metal. It's cheaper and easier to fabricate, and it's also an insulator in case you derail - the styrene won't short across your tracks.

Some Rivarossi steamers need the metal plate. My 0-6-0 gets half of it's power from the electricity going through the metal plate. If I got rid of it, I'd have to build some extra ugly contact strip outside the frame to get power.[:0]

[ICRR1964]

235301,
I was going to try and get you answer to you this morning but had to leave for the day, but I have an answer for you on the age of your 0-8-0, it was actually made in the late 1950's. This loco was made by Rivarossi for about 4 years, like 1958-1962 or so. They did not run really good either, I purchased one back in the 80's and tried like you to get new parts for it, bad news, there are none. Rivarossi made three veriations of the 0-8-0 yard got so to speak.

The first is the one you have that was made from 1958-1962. You see one of these pop up on ebay, but not often, The tender chassis has a bad habbit of crumbling, the diecast would just crack and fall appart. They also made a 0-4-0 that had the same problem, but it was the steam chest that would start to crumble. I am not sure but some of the early Rivarossi diecast was really lead casting, not sure though. The loco you have was the first 0-8-0 produced and was nothing like the later ones that were made, in looks and running .

The second design was a totally different and had the motor in the firebox with a attatched gear box to the front of the motor, which in turn went through a drive shaft to a worm gear, then to the drive gear on the wheels. This design worked well and ran really nice, even had good slow speed response, but the motor was a large left over sized motor from the older loco's like yours, they were a square looking type, 3 pole motors. It was made from 1969-1974 AHM/Rivarossi.

The third is with the motor in the boiler with the shft pointing straight down with a worm gear attached and driving the main drive gear on the wheels. This had the round 3 pole motor, but still had problems with week motors. This loco had the same look as the 2nd one, it was made from 1974-1977AHM/Rivarossi.

As stated as by other members it has very large flanges on the wheels, larger than normal. You can cut them down on a lathe or sanding, lathe works better though.

As far as remotoring, you can get a motor and drive shaft set from NWSL and put a whole new system in it, use the old gearing though. It is going to be a expensive undertaking and allot of work. I know it has allot of value to you being your grandfsthers, but you have to make the call. Like I said you see one pop up on ebay from time to time, thats the easiest way to find parts.

If it was my grandfathers, I would clean it up really nice and put it on display where I would see it every day so it reminded me of grandfather. Thats me though, hope I helped you with your question. Rivarissi does make a forth generation loco, that is the current design, it is an really nice loco that is detailed and runs perfect.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

235301,
I was going to try and get you answer to you this morning but had to leave for the day, but I have an answer for you on the age of your 0-8-0, it was actually made in the late 1950's. This loco was made by Rivarossi for about 4 years, like 1958-1962 or so. They did not run really good either, I purchased one back in the 80's and tried like you to get new parts for it, bad news, there are none. Rivarossi made three veriations of the 0-8-0 yard got so to speak.

The first is the one you have that was made from 1958-1962. You see one of these pop up on ebay, but not often, The tender chassis has a bad habbit of crumbling, the diecast would just crack and fall appart. They also made a 0-4-0 that had the same problem, but it was the steam chest that would start to crumble. I am not sure but some of the early Rivarossi diecast was really lead casting, not sure though. The loco you have was the first 0-8-0 produced and was nothing like the later ones that were made, in looks and running .

The second design was a totally different and had the motor in the firebox with a attatched gear box to the front of the motor, which in turn went through a drive shaft to a worm gear, then to the drive gear on the wheels. This design worked well and ran really nice, even had good slow speed response, but the motor was a large left over sized motor from the older loco's like yours, they were a square looking type, 3 pole motors. It was made from 1969-1974 AHM/Rivarossi.

The third is with the motor in the boiler with the shft pointing straight down with a worm gear attached and driving the main drive gear on the wheels. This had the round 3 pole motor, but still had problems with week motors. This loco had the same look as the 2nd one, it was made from 1974-1977AHM/Rivarossi.

As stated as by other members it has very large flanges on the wheels, larger than normal. You can cut them down on a lathe or sanding, lathe works better though.

As far as remotoring, you can get a motor and drive shaft set from NWSL and put a whole new system in it, use the old gearing though. It is going to be a expensive undertaking and allot of work. I know it has allot of value to you being your grandfsthers, but you have to make the call. Like I said you see one pop up on ebay from time to time, thats the easiest way to find parts.

If it was my grandfathers, I would clean it up really nice and put it on display where I would see it every day so it reminded me of grandfather. Thats me though, hope I helped you with your question. Rivarissi does make a forth generation loco, that is the current design, it is an really nice loco that is detailed and runs perfect.

Wow, informative post. I believe I have the 69-74 version, it's a plastic body with the motor in the tender, driving a worm gear in the locomotive. Makes sense on the dates, he passed away in 70 so this was likely one of his last purchases. Great information, thanks.

[1shado1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 235301

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

235301,
I was going to try and get you answer to you this morning but had to leave for the day, but I have an answer for you on the age of your 0-8-0, it was actually made in the late 1950's. This loco was made by Rivarossi for about 4 years, like 1958-1962 or so. They did not run really good either, I purchased one back in the 80's and tried like you to get new parts for it, bad news, there are none. Rivarossi made three veriations of the 0-8-0 yard got so to speak.

The first is the one you have that was made from 1958-1962. You see one of these pop up on ebay, but not often, The tender chassis has a bad habbit of crumbling, the diecast would just crack and fall appart. They also made a 0-4-0 that had the same problem, but it was the steam chest that would start to crumble. I am not sure but some of the early Rivarossi diecast was really lead casting, not sure though. The loco you have was the first 0-8-0 produced and was nothing like the later ones that were made, in looks and running .

The second design was a totally different and had the motor in the firebox with a attatched gear box to the front of the motor, which in turn went through a drive shaft to a worm gear, then to the drive gear on the wheels. This design worked well and ran really nice, even had good slow speed response, but the motor was a large left over sized motor from the older loco's like yours, they were a square looking type, 3 pole motors. It was made from 1969-1974 AHM/Rivarossi.

The third is with the motor in the boiler with the shft pointing straight down with a worm gear attached and driving the main drive gear on the wheels. This had the round 3 pole motor, but still had problems with week motors. This loco had the same look as the 2nd one, it was made from 1974-1977AHM/Rivarossi.

As stated as by other members it has very large flanges on the wheels, larger than normal. You can cut them down on a lathe or sanding, lathe works better though.

As far as remotoring, you can get a motor and drive shaft set from NWSL and put a whole new system in it, use the old gearing though. It is going to be a expensive undertaking and allot of work. I know it has allot of value to you being your grandfsthers, but you have to make the call. Like I said you see one pop up on ebay from time to time, thats the easiest way to find parts.

If it was my grandfathers, I would clean it up really nice and put it on display where I would see it every day so it reminded me of grandfather. Thats me though, hope I helped you with your question. Rivarissi does make a forth generation loco, that is the current design, it is an really nice loco that is detailed and runs perfect.

Wow, informative post. I believe I have the 69-74 version, it's a plastic body with the motor in the tender, driving a worm gear in the locomotive. Makes sense on the dates, he passed away in 70 so this was likely one of his last purchases. Great information, thanks.

No, you have the oldest version. The 69-74 had the motor IN THE FIREBOX, not in the tender. : )

Jeff

[Anonymous]

OK, gotcha, must be the older model, confused on my terms.

OK, pictures:

[ICRR1964]

WOW! It looks to be in really good shape, Really nice pictures! The one I have like this is in bad shape and a shelf warmer.

The last one I seen like yours was last fall at a train show in the original box and looked as good as yours. If you do take the tender apart, be very careful, the tender chassis is made out of diecast and is old, it might crumble or break in half.

As good as shape as yours is in it might need a good cleaning and some lube is all.

Is the bottom plate on the bottom of the loco missing, or did you just take it off for inspection?

ICRR1964

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

WOW! It looks to be in really good shape, Really nice pictures! The one I have like this is in bad shape and a shelf warmer.

The last one I seen like yours was last fall at a train show in the original box and looked as good as yours. If you do take the tender apart, be very careful, the tender chassis is made out of diecast and is old, it might crumble or break in half.

As good as shape as yours is in it might need a good cleaning and some lube is all.

Is the bottom plate on the bottom of the loco missing, or did you just take it off for inspection?

ICRR1964

Yes, it's the plate on the bottom that's missing. I see a later vintage yard goat on e-bay that looks to have a similar if not identical bottom plate. If I can get it cheap enough I may just pop for that unit rather than attempt to fabricate my own plate. The connectors are there although they'll need new wires and soldering. The cow catcher has one side broken off otherwise it's in flawless cosmetic shape. That's why I assumed it was the 69-74 vintage, the plastic work on it looks so clean and I assumed they didn't do plastic work like this back in early 60. I am not sure how the tender cover comes off on this one. I don't see any mounting screws on the bottom side of the unit.

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 235301

Yes, it's the plate on the bottom that's missing. I see a later vintage yard goat on e-bay that looks to have a similar if not identical bottom plate. If I can get it cheap enough I may just pop for that unit rather than attempt to fabricate my own plate. The connectors are there although they'll need new wires and soldering. The cow catcher has one side broken off otherwise it's in flawless cosmetic shape. That's why I assumed it was the 69-74 vintage, the plastic work on it looks so clean and I assumed they didn't do plastic work like this back in early 60. I am not sure how the tender cover comes off on this one. I don't see any mounting screws on the bottom side of the unit.

Nice pictures.[:D] It looks like the engine may have been a 2-8-0 at one time, because the pilot looks really long for an 0-8-0.

Rivarossi had some of the best detailed plastic steam engines in the 60s, 70s and 80s. My dad's old 0-4-0 Dockside has a very nice looking shell, and it's from the early 60s.[:D]

The tender shell might be snapped on. It could also be that the screws (or pins) holding the trucks on are also holding the shell on.

[MHan]

Well it only took me five years(I am the original poster, 235301, just a new name on the forums) but the Rivarossi 1515 is back up and running.  I had to cobble it together with parts from 2 other units purchased off of e-bay(it's now a frankenlocomotive but at least 2/3 is original).  It's satisfying to get this 50 yr old engine back up and running and looking pretty good.  Runs OK on code 100 track.  But boy what a dumb design.   The tender is always trying to torque itself off the track, trying to rotate around the engine(the motor and drive shaft is in the tender).  Question:  for the rods/valves attached to the wheels on the engine; I can't get them tightened down enough so that they don't loosen themselves while the engine is running(with disastrous results when they come completely loose).  Is using threadlocker common for the screws into the wheels?  There are belleville washers on some of the wheels between the rod and the wheel as well as brass sleeves/bearings.  So either I've assembled this wrong or threadlocker is the answer.  I have no idea what I am doing and this is all being done by feel.   Which means I've had to do everything over and over at least 10 times before it looks right.

Also, the motor when running has that typical old motor smell(not burning, the motor is running very cool even at high speeds).  Just has that funky smell that isn't pleasant.  Any idea what causes this and can it be remedied?  Is it the brushes?

TIA!

[bobwrght]

The smell is normal for Rivarossi motors. I think it is ozone from the brushes sparking. You have to choose the correct threadlocker or you may have a problem getting them apart again. I have used a very small amount of rubber cement on the threads with a toothpick. Even a small amount of model (testors) paint sometimes works.

Bob

[dknelson]

Now here is an old thread that I did NOT expect to see revived!  But it is good to hear from you and about the progress with the locomotive.

The problem with tender drive that you mention is simply endemic to tender drive.  As my old post mentioned the only saving grace is to make the tender heavy -- as with the Mantua General 4-4-0. 

Rivarossi offered  a special tiny little wrench to tighten the hex bolts for side rods and valve gear.  My general experience is that once loosened they never get quite as tight again.  Indeed that is also my experience with HO brass locomotives.   I would go with Thread locker.  What harm could it do so long as you take care not to gum up the entire works.

The HOSeeker pages for the AHM 0-8-0 all date from when the motor was moved to the cab but the drawings for the valve gear and side rods might be of some slight help

http://www.hoseeker.net/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm080switcherpg1.jpg

Dave Nelson

[dinwitty]

I am not sure why you cannot lockdown those siderod screws, but hit the hardware stores and look for the mini-wrench sets, look for metric as these are european built. The screws and nuts are metal they aughta tighten in fine. The drivers are however plastic and your bound to snap them overtightening and trying to loosen if you tightlocked them. Just lube your siderods up, check for interference/binding, you should be okay. If the screws just won't stay, start with walthers goo, if it still won't stay, go a little stickier cement, if still try the tightlock. But try none at all first just tightening them down snug enough.

Giving the enge the overall lubing may help some torquing, weighting the tender should help.

 

[andrechapelon]

235301

OK, gotcha, must be the older model, confused on my terms.

OK, pictures:

 

That's not actually an 0-8-0. It's an Americanized version of the FS (Ferrovia dello Stato - Italian State Railways) class  740 2-8-0 that Rivarossi sold for some time in the late 50's and perhaps a bit longer.

If you get a chance, watch "Von Ryan's Express". IIRC, the engine involved was a 740 class 2-8-0. IIRC, the German train chasing "Von" Ryan's escape train was of the 743 class with a Franco-Crosti boiler.

Here's a pic of a later Rivarossi model of the 743: http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/30015/HR2195_Rivarossi_280_Steam_locomotive_Gr743301

 

Andre

[MHan]

The unit I have from my grandfather did not have the forward truck to make it a 2-8-0. And every one I've purchased off of e-bay for repair parts did NOT have the forward truck.  But I did find this from the catalog in 1963:

http://www.hoseeker.net/ahminformation/ahmcatalog1963page01.jpg

It's the 280 unit in the lower right.  Showing the forward trucks.  There is an empty screw hole on the bottom of the engine that looks like it would accomodate the forward truck(excuse me if my terms are completely off).

So, wondering if a) adding a forward truck would make the engine run better and b) if so, where would one go to get said truck to attach it to the engine.

Thanks for all the great input.

[RR_Mel]

Come on you guys, give the newbie a break, that was his third post.

Clint

Mel



 
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