Is the Hobby being priced out of reach?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

Many are quick to start arguing that MRR prices are keeping pace with inflation, introduction of new technology, more details, etc. Others will argue that things in the hobby are actually more expensive. Who is right?

Time to take a big step back because I’m not sure the right question is being asked. Instead of asking if this hobby is being priced out of reach (which it may have always been), I wonder if the question should be “Is this hobby being priced to deal with its competition?”

So if you argue that the increase in prices is in line with the general cost of things over the years, is that really good? I think not. I think that if this hobby is to survive and grow in the long term against its newer (and powerful) competition, it must at least win on low cost.

A long while ago it was the advent of TV that people thought would fini***he hobby. Now its video games. Who knows what’s next? I don’t think any of these by themselves will finish us off, but they have each taken their toll. Sure the hobby has endured, and has even maybe grown a bit recently. But if you take a hard look at the overall history of MRR’ing, I’m sure you will see an overall decline. So do you think keeping prices in pace with inflation (at the least) will help?

Regardless of how you look at the hobby, Kato and Atlas sell their products very quickly and we have to search to get the hard to find models. BLI have also sold well, but they got rid of thier stock by the blow out sales. Most of the sound models have sold well because of the advances in sound and quality of the models. The price is high, but our market seems to paying for the higher prices without too many complaints.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

"Other half-dozen locos"? I have exactly two (2), and they will remain my only two locos for quite some time (just did my income tax). I would love to have an early diesel (I'm in the transition era), and an all-metal K4. They will be my dream for a time to come, but the thoughts of ever having so many that I could contentedly leave a half-dozen sitting in a drawer are beyond me.

Crandall,

Send me an email. I have an idea.

[rrgrassi]

Well, the answer to the question lies in the buyer. I do not drive a 45,000 truck, I drive a paid for 89 Nissan 4x4. I am currently converting the garage in my house so I can build a lay out. The garage has stalled due to lack of time and funds. I have made MR purchases, albeit small ones. Same for the garage. So, is it expensive? It can be, but if you utilize lay away, and buy a piece here and there, you can collectively spend lots of cash, but since it is done slowly, it is not a painful. As noted before, train shows are a great place for bargains, or junk. Also, some LHS have a consignment section. Sometimes the consigned stuff costs more that brand new, other times, it's a great deal. You can get good stuff pretty cheap on e-bay, but you have to be careful. I also want the BLI or MTH K-4 because my great grandfather was a passenger conductor on the PRR when the K-4 roamed the rails.

Almost every hobby out there costs money, time, etc. It is all in what we like, and what we choose.

[emdgp92]

This hobby is only as expensive if you want it to be. I know of people who will drop $3-500 for an engine, and then an addition $100-150 in detail parts for it. To me, that's a bit insane. I'd rather pick up a used engine and rebuild it. If it runs as good (or better) why not? Not too long ago I picked up a still-in-the-box-and-sealed Bachmann Spectrum F40PH for less than half price.

While we're on the subject, I've heard of people complaining about various BLI items. Considering what BLI charges for those engines, I think the customers are right. If I spent that much on an engine (or anything else hobby-related, for that matter) then it *** well should run as it's supposed to.

I'd rather pick up used equipment and redo it than get new stuff. For one thing, if it's used, I'm probably going to take it apart anyway when I repaint it, and that's how I can figure out what's wrong. Second, I can always use the extra parts in my scrap box :)

[wd45]

Like most things, it's as expensive as you want it to be. I'm cheap, so a large part of my rolling stock is made up of pieces that I've paid .50 to a couple of bucks for; old Tyco, AHM, LL, etc. They may not have the detailing that the $15-$30 new ones have, but after changing couplers and wheelsets and adding some weathering, they work fine for me. And it keeps my modeling budget from skyrocketing.

[dwick]

Hi!
It seems that every time there is a forum question being present to the chat room gang, some one has to interject an entirely new catagory to the main question. Why not stick to the main agenda and quit whining about other items that don't relate to the main subject.
Yes, the World's Greatest Hobby is getting expensive and that snowball rolling downhill keeps on getting larger. Let's face real facts. manufacturers are producing for two reasons:
1. To service a given market [Model Railroading]
2. To make a profit and use these profits to be able to continue creating new products for the hobbyist s that want them.

Inflation is a killer when it comes to our hobby. Gone are the days of "cheap trains" Now the era of Super Detailed RTR rolling stock and Highly Detailed with and without sound
Locomotives for the 21st Century is here to stay.
New tooling and re-designed motor drives are replacing the old growling gear grinders we had to re-juvenate when we got them new, right out of the box. That was an education in itself. A great learning phase in our early modeling days.
Now you can have more time for running, building, creating scenery , for raiload history/rail fanning time. Hopefully, this is what we all got into this hobby for in the first place! Time is a valuable asset to modelers. There are situations where we may not have time to enjoy the hobby as we hoped for. But we make the best of it.
Is the hooby being priced out of reach? Only if you are trying to build and spend your hard earned dollars faster than your paychecks come to you.
I believe that the hobby is getting high priced, but the quality of the products on the present day market are much more superior than those of the 1980,s and 1990,s. [How time flys!]
Shop smart. Read reviews. Compare between products that you may be interested in purchasing. And most important, establish a budget for you hobby interests.
We all want the best bang for our bucks.
Don Wick - West Bend, WI

[jwr_1986]

I've noticed many are comparing locomotive prices but it's the little things that seem to add up. My mother and I (I'm in college and we belong to the same club) are just starting to dabble a bit in scenery and a recent trip to the hobby shop (I won't put LHS because it isn't local at all) came out to 150+ and that was on small items and they don't go as far as you'd hope. I think the difference in cost is that in the old days you made things where as today you buy things. The old timers I know did some amazing things with saw dust and various inks. Much of these techniques are now dismissed as not being good enough. While I find the hobby reasonably affordable it is only because I micromanage my finances and because I resist the temptation to buy beyond my rather meager means.

Jesse

[selector]

Couldn't have said it any better, Jesse. It is a stark truth. Some of us can live within our means, while others can't. Some of us dream of a brass 4-6-2, others find a way to acquire one.

It's the same all over.

[Anonymous]

Jesse,

I totally agree about the making vs. buying stuff. In the most recent MR, there's an article about building an overpass. I don't know how many products it references, but it's a lot. It almost reads as an advertisement for those products.

I'm re-entering the hobby at a snails pace, and I certainly won't spend a ton of money on it. I just don't feel good doing that.

Styrene, etc. could be bought from non-MRR'ing sources, etc.

There are many types of layouts in MR. My favorites are the ones that have a "look" to them. I think most of my efforts should be spent on making the "look", not on buying stuff and arranging it together.

For example - Aggrojones who's always posting on here - his layout has a "look" to it - all nicely weathered, etc. I think you could have a very nice layout without spending a ton of dough - I think it's all in the "presentation".

Part of my plan to keep costs down is to build a "shadow-box" style layout - which won't require me to re-fini***he garage. I'll just build the layout in a "box".

Let's hear it for all the cheap Model Railroaders out there!

[Anonymous]

Well it depends on what you're looking for...

The brass in my signature (two more pics added as well) costs about $2200 not including insured shipping from Germany and spares no detail, is made in Germany, and is made of Brass, Silver, titanium, and surgical steel... runs off of a faulhaber motor, and has prototypical 4 cylinder operation... only about 100 made period. that's one end of the scale...

Here are two more pics..


On the other end of the scale, Brawa makes the same model for $119 in DCC... all plastic, sounds like a farm tractor, more than 1000 per week are made in China by a 16 hour/day 7day/week laborer that make $1200/year (and is happy about it!)..

You have many options for inexpensive toy trains... the Bachmann stuff is as cheap as ever, but the "hobby grade" quality stuff is hovering at the top of the price range $400+ for a loc is the entry level for quality these days.

Gone are the days of American made quality locs for $30... for ever :-(

[Anonymous]

Did you see the Z scale post I ran 2 days ago,$1,200 for a gs-4!

[davekelly]

Got the June RMC today. In the collector consist, the author is discussing the cost of model railroading in the 1930's. "A ready-to-run O scale steam locomotive could cost up to half the price of a Chevrolet coupe; a ready-to-run diecast passenger car, several weeks or more wages." WOW I don't think that BLI has reached that level yet!

[CNJ831]

Dave, you've got to appreciate what the hobby was all about in the 1930's. Back then the majority of hobbyists usually had small machine shops in their basements or knew how to use handtools to fabricate just about any detailed item necessary. The pages of MR from the period illustrate many very fine and totally scratchbuilt steamers...some of which would rival the best of todays commercial offerings. It was the relatively few mechanically helpless but well-to-do model railroad enthusiasts that were paying big bucks for these one-off locomotives. Be assured, if you could contract with someone today to build you a one of a kind custom 0-guage steamer, you'd be stunned by the asking price.

Yes, the hobby was relatively more expensive back in the 1930's (it became cheap in the 1960's and stayed so until 1990) but if you check the pages of vintage MR's, typically hobbyists weren't paying astronomical sums for loco and rolling stock kits or for accessories.

CNJ831

[AggroJones]

Why does everyone keep comparing it to what it was 40 years ago? Everything was different back then, that goes without saying. You should be measuring from a FEW years ago. The price of these typical HO diesels hase jumped up like $40 while not being that much improved.
I'm sure an average person can afford some of the super discounted stuff. But it may not be what you want though.
What if you jump into modeling because of your strong intrest in Steam, particularly articulateds, but all you can afford is a $20 C-liner blowout from Trainworld?
Prices of steam locomotives have gotten way the hell out there. Sure they are better than a few years ago, but $$$$.....?

I make WAY less than minimum wage. I afford the things you see in my photos cause I know how and when to strike. I am a 'MASTER SPENDER', if you will. And I make alot of thing myself, usually using the cheapest options.

The 'hobby' isn't 100% out of reach now. You just probably will not be able to afford modeling the era/equiptment you want or be able to have a layout anywhere near the size you would like.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones
[The 'hobby' isn't 100% out of reach now. You just probably will not be able to afford modeling the era/equiptment you want or be able to have a layout anywhere near the size you would like.

In other words, live within your means!

It isn't the end of the world if you cannot afford the latest expensive loco or other piece of rolling stock, make do or do without. Save up and get it later when prices go down. Watch for bargains on eBay or at local shows.

Bob Boudreau

[whitman500]

One point that no one seems to have raised on this thread is that the biggest cost increase in model railroading is actually the cost of housing which has skyrocketed in many parts of the country over the last several years. Ultimately, we all need space to build our layouts in and as I look at my own situation, affording a house with enough room for a layout is the biggest barrier. Living on the East Coast near a major city, you can't get anything for less than $500K that has a basement, family room or garage. Compared to that cost, the cost of buying actual modeling supplies is quite modest.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by whitman500

One point that no one seems to have raised on this thread is that the biggest cost increase in model railroading is actually the cost of housing which has skyrocketed in many parts of the country over the last several years. Ultimately, we all need space to build our layouts in and as I look at my own situation, affording a house with enough room for a layout is the biggest barrier. Living on the East Coast near a major city, you can't get anything for less than $500K that has a basement, family room or garage. Compared to that cost, the cost of buying actual modeling supplies is quite modest.

Your point is well taken. I reside in what until very recently was a rural area of NY about 75 miles from NYC. House prices have gone absolutely insane over the past 36 months. There has been a huge building boom in the area with new homes STARTIING at $500k and many being offered at around one million. Even quite small, older homes are going for $400k. And this is in an area with no municipal services!

Considering that model railroading has generally been considered largely a blue collar hobby in the past, I do not see many of these sorts of folk purchasing houses in the urban East in the future.

CNJ831

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Considering that model railroading has generally been considered largely a blue collar hobby in the past, I do not see many of these sorts of folk purchasing houses in the urban East in the future.

Really? When was model railroading considered a blue-collar sort of hobby? Near as I can tell, it has always been more of a middle-class phenomenon--it was the big middle class of the fifties and sixties who were able to buy homes to put layouts into, after all. Of course, perhaps the shrinking of the middle class has something to do with that, too...

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock
[
Really? When was model railroading considered a blue-collar sort of hobby?

Really! I suggest that you take a look through the pages of MR between 1940 and 1990. You will find that the majority of hobbyists were "the people that do the work", not execs or those in high paying jobs.

In my lifetime the so-called "middle-class" was composed of common hard working folks and it was from this group that came the typical model railroader. Today the American middle-class is slowly fading away and society returning to the highly dichotomized social classes we had a century ago. In context with my previous post, if you can afford a $500k to 1 million dollar home today, you are no longer part of the "middle-class".

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

The brass in my signature (two more pics added as well) costs about $2200 not including insured shipping from Germany and spares no detail, is made in Germany, and is made of Brass, Silver, titanium, and surgical steel... runs off of a faulhaber motor, and has prototypical 4 cylinder operation... only about 100 made period. that's one end of the scale...


You have many options for inexpensive toy trains... the Bachmann stuff is as cheap as ever, but the "hobby grade" quality stuff is hovering at the top of the price range $400+ for a loc is the entry level for quality these days.

Gone are the days of American made quality locs for $30... for ever :-(

I got a Kato RS-2 for $85 about three weeks ago. Not $30, but not $400 either! My local hobby shop marks prices down on items that don't sell, so I can get some good deals. You guys that have more engines than you know what to do with, how about sharing? If you have a twelve foot switching layout and a dozen loco's, that's one loco per foot! I guess I'd accept any unwanted brass engines with DCC and QSI that you might have laying around[:D].