Are trains getting uglier?

[trainboyH16-44]

When I look back to the cab units of the '40s and '50s, they look so nice, especially EMD Es and Fs, in that deep gloss coat that they applied. Then we went to the high nose geep. That was a step down. *** Dilworth did, as it says in "Nicholas Morant's Canadian Pacific", design an "Ugly duckling". Then we got to the low nose units. They look pretty nice, but they still don't compare with Fs. Then we got into the wide nose phase. The 2 window SD60s and 70s look niceish with their rounded nose. Meanwhile, GE designed their own wide cab. In my mind it is quite ugly. And now we have that new wide nose from GMD. It looks like it was designed around a door, and made from scrap metal. Compared to F-units, it is[censored]ugly. What do you think? Will they continue to get boxier and uglier, like they have done?
Trainboy

[Anonymous]

Locomotives today are more focused on function rather than form as they were in the '40s and '50s due mainly to the fact that they are freight and not passenger oriented. If there was a significant change in our transportation habits back to long distance trains, I am sure there would be a lot of re-styling done.

[orsonroy]

I don't think so. Most modern American train designers seem to think that European trains are the epitomy of style. Bull; they're at LEAST as ugly as they've always been, which is why American railroads traditionally didn't copy them in the first place. If some doofus designer tried to create stylish modern freight engines for this market, they'd end up looking like a suppository (or worse).

And the F-series by EMD is generally considered to be the "standard" American stylish diesel. Even though they haven't been seen regularly on the rails in almost 30 years, you can show Joe Public a nose-on profile of an F, and the'll immediately recognize it (Metra still uses it on their "train station here" sign). And the F is a freight engine.

Personally, I think anything not steam or at least first generation diesel paint scheme is ugly as sin.

[selector]

I think the locomotives that CP is currently using (don't know diesel, so can't say what they are) are nice looking.

It seems to me that, when diesels were first introduced, we were at the tail end of the Art Decco and Buck Rogers eras, so it should come as no surprise that the newest type of (future) locos should be rocket-like in appearance. Now, however, with rail competing against trucks and other forms of tpt, keeping solvent is the name of the game. It is now function, not form.

[trainboyH16-44]

AC4400CW and SD90/43MAC
I don't like Candy Apple Red as much as the old Action red. It is too dark, and with a little dirt or exhaust looks like crap.
Trainboy

[SpaceMouse]

I posted this on another thread, but this one rolls past my door. I think it looks pretty good.

[Anonymous]

of course they're getting uglier, they've nbeen getting uglier since the day they decided steam was no more. Only way they'll get better looking is to bring steam back. :)

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I posted this on another thread, but this one rolls past my door. I think it looks pretty good.

I actually think that the low-nose EMD cab isn't that bad. It's those new SD wide noses and the GE wide noses I'm talking about.
Trainboy
P.S. SteamerFan, you have to agree that F units look better than the new SD cab.

[mustanggt]

Actually, I think Trains are getting easier on the eyes- well, the equipment and not the paint. UP is the worst. That yellow's been around since, the 30's? Anyway, I like the look of an F40PH or F59PH better than the old "bulldog nose" F units. Also, you have to admit Dash 8's and Dash 9's are prettier than the U boats with their ugly little short hood. And some people dislike the euro- inspired styling of the AMD103/P40/P42? I love it![:D]

P.S. I hope I did'nt offend anyone that likes old trains. But anything is prettier than the BL2, right?

[Anonymous]

There is no competition in the locomotive market. I think GE and GMD don't think they have to design anything better looking (and I guess they don't). They are more involved trying to meet the tougher EPA regulations and such. Come to think of it, 18-wheelers are going the same direction. Most trucks on the road are the ant-eater design. You don't see cab-overs any more, which I thought were butt-ugly anyway.

[Anonymous]

The only modern engines I have a problem with as far as their looks are concerned are switchers. They remind me of my ex-wife!. Need I say more...

[Anonymous]

I don't know? The top mid section of the SD70ACe below the horn is pretty cool. Its not round but its angled enough to look like the old days.[8D]
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=72042

[Anonymous]

Locomotives of today are getting much sexier than the "UGLY" ones of the 40's 50's 60's and 70's They came from ugly now are getting nicer. Thank god for the sexy SD70Ms, Ac4400, and the SD90Macs

[tatans]

And uglier and uglier. they are just diesel engines and electric motors wrapped in a steel shipping container, no more no less, not meant to appeal to the eye, they are TRACTORS pulling stuff.. I'm surprised they even bother to paint them.

[brothaslide]

My first thought when I saw the latest GE and EMD offerings with all the exposed piping, etc. (for ease of maintanence) was, "Man, those engines are ugly!"

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Butch Cassidy

Locomotives of today are getting much sexier than the "UGLY" ones of the 40's 50's 60's and 70's They came from ugly now are getting nicer. Thank god for the sexy SD70Ms, Ac4400, and the SD90Macs

Wait a minute Al. Your saying the Alco PA-1 and EMD E8 are not "sexy"? Whaaaaaaa?
Aren't they the definition of "sexy diesels"?

[AggroJones]

The SD40-2 is the only modern diesel that can hang in the same coolness genre as the PA, Es, and F units.

[ericsp]

I think everything through the Phase 1 SD70Ms and AC4400CWs are pretty good looking, with some exceptions. However, all of the locomotives currently being made are ugly.

[METRO]

I think the passenger diesels are looking better. The F59PHI and DE30 are quite sleek. I also like the fact that they are not trying to copy the older locomotives, last thing we need is a messed up rip off of an F7 or PA1 the classics should stay as they were. Compaired to the F40 and unstreamlined F59 the new units are positively beautiful.

As for the freight diesels, well nothing can hold a light to the old Alco RS series and the FM units. But one must realize that those units were also intended from the begining to look good. Modern freight diesels are not styled by superstar industrial designers. I think if Renzo Piano or Santiago Calitrava were to pick up the sheet metal on a modern locomotive like Raymond Lowey did they'd probably be amazing looking machines. However, today function plays above form in freight motors.

~METRO

[mustanggt]

Tatans brought up a good point. They are basically tractors- on rails. And I forgot to mention, The newest diesels I can think of with actual contours instead of being utilitarian boxes are the F59PHI and GE Genesis. I think alot of it has to do with fitting the style, such as these locos being on passenger trains, they need to flow visually with the cars. Freight trains are different, probably because the cars shapes vary greatly.

[AntonioFP45]

I guess I'm in the minority here.

I think that these modern six axle giants are great looking engines!

The SD90, SD80, AC6000, SD75M...............ugly?

The functional "boxiness" adds to the image of tough, rugged, high horsepower machines that will haul super heavy freights at 70m.p.h, if need be. Similar principal to the "boxy" lines of 1960s muscle cars.

Funny thing. I remember that quite a few (yes, me too) didn't like the Amtrak Genesis units when they first hit the rails as they looked "wimpy" with the cab resembling that of an airliner. They grew on me, but I still miss those F40s!

Yes, the old PAs, E units, and F units were sleek, but don't short change the modern units either. Even the new SD70ace, with that weird looking nose, is not so bad compared to the EMD Spartan Cab (standard) which has been around since at least the 1960s. I grew up seeing Spartans everywhere, rather boring at times!

The arrival of the EMD and GE safety cabs in the 80s were indeed a very refreshing sight for my eyes. Started with those Santa Fe Super Fleet GP60Ms. Modelers and Railfans were excited. I still remember model railroaders at my LHS wondering out loud when Athearn or Atlas was going to hurry up and produce HO and N scale safety cabs. Seems like yesterday!

Good Goobly! Now, we're calling these things ugly? [banghead]

Go figure!!!!!!!!!][;)][(-D]

Peace and High Greens![%-)

[Bikerdad]

Nah, they aren't getting uglier. The E, F, PA, and Sharknoses were pretty good looking, but they were also created in an era when their design had to speak to the public, AND when the functional shortcomings of their designs were not obvious.

I personally think the ugliest locos were the first and second generation diesels not mentioned above, especially the high nose units. I like the modern heavyweights, with their wide cabs, although from a visual design perspective I'd work a bit more symmetry into them. Not sure yet about the new one's coming out, the overweening functionality of the SD70ACe hasn't warmed the cockles of my heart yet.

Most of the European and Asian locomotives, with the exception of the high speed passenger jobbies, are truly ugly, lacking in both grace and character.

Of course, ugly is simply in the eyes of the viewer. [8D]

[Anonymous]

Trains getting uglier? For a LONG time they have. Think of the GG1 with its golden stripes and curvey sholders and hips, the SP GS-4 in Daylight colors, the Norfolk and Western J series streamliner steam, the Pioneer Zepher in all its polished stainless glory, the B&O heavy Pacifics in green and gold pulling a royal blue pullman consist., an A-B-B-A E3 slant nose in Santa Fe Warbonnet Livery, a brace of Alco PA s..also in Warbonnet, and a UP FEF 4-8-4 with its masculine smoke lifters streaming along with the golden yellow and grey luxury passenger cars, ..... You bet! Trains have been getting uglier. for the last 5 decades! .......but I like plenty of them,ugly or not... especailly rinkity-dink narrow gauge teakettles. and even some of those boxy 2nd generation diesels.... I just bought a GP-35 in Nickel Plate Road, black with yellow lettering.and recenthy a late 1800s 2-6-0 Cooke Mogul narrow gauge.

Cheers
Jennifer

[TBat55]

Little eyes and a big smile from a J1e Hudson:

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mustanggt

The newest diesels I can think of with actual contours instead of being utilitarian boxes are the F59PHI and GE Genesis.

Have you ever seen a SD90MAC-H?
http://www.trainweb.org/galt-stn/cproster/locomotive/9300s/cp9300b.htm
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=98941
That's what I'm talking about.
Trainboy
P.S. TBat55, that engine looks like it's straight out of one of my old kid's train books. Neat!

[vsmith]

boxy cabs, with steel utility box bodies on platforms,add some handrails on each side and I've just described EVERY freight engine built since 1970.

GOD they are BORING, so boring I cannot tell the difference between ANY newer diesel engine.

Give me a sexy PA1 any day!

[Anonymous]

Ugly? Beauty? What does a modern diesel locomotive cost? How much more do you
think a railroad company would be willing to spend on frills, attempting to make a
locomotive more attractive to John Q? My guess is "zippo"! Lets see, the cab houses the controls and the crew. The hoods house the prime mover and other necessary equipment. All doing these jobs in a functional manner with minimum cost and with the least amount of maintenance as possible. All covered. Now, lets squirt some paint on there for protection, visibility and because paint is necessary, attempt to add some eye catching appeal and we'll get the logo on there so folks will know who the train works for. Again, all covered. Visual ugliness and beauty no longer have any importance and are emotional attributes anyway. The beauty, now, is in the capability of doing the job.
Only model railroaders have the choice of desiring one locomotive over another, based
on the loco's looks.

[aloco]

YES! Trains started getting uglier when the diesel locomotive builders did away with the arched cab roofs. The best diesel locomotive body designs were manufactured from the late 1930s up until the end of the 1950s. The worst body designs are the bodies locomotive builders are making today - there are too many sharp corners. That is why I refuse to model the 'modern' era. I also find unit trains, container trains, and cabooseless trains boring to look at.

[Train 284]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up_santafe

Locomotives today are more focused on function rather than form as they were in the '40s and '50s due mainly to the fact that they are freight and not passenger oriented. If there was a significant change in our transportation habits back to long distance trains, I am sure there would be a lot of re-styling done.

[#ditto]

I definitly have to agree on this one!

[dinwitty]

early steam locos were painted colorful, but got dirty a lot, the proud engineers cleaned them often, but they started to paint them black because the grime didnt show up as much. Now we actually weather our loco's to be realistic...
Steamers were "Streamlined" for passenger PR like the diesels then, its about public view, today designs are more europeanized in some ways. Make the Europeans happy they feel at home.....

meh...