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FORUM CLINIC: Building realistic scenery

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Posted by hminky on Saturday, April 2, 2005 9:59 AM
QUOTE: subject of grass

My March 2005 RMC article about making grass and bushes from faux fur is now on-line . It is the original manuscript.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/fur_grass/article/





Thank you if you visit[:D]
Harold
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Posted by jfugate on Saturday, April 2, 2005 4:52 PM
Great example of fake fur grass there, Harold!

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 4:57 PM
Harold,

I picked up MR crafstman at Borders a couple weeks ago. It was cool to see a guy who's layout I recognized from this forum. Nice Job! You make On30 look extremely tempting!!!
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Posted by hminky on Saturday, April 2, 2005 5:22 PM
Thanks guys,
I find faux fur very versatile for grassland development. Here is my initial attempt at sagebrush. Having a central California based railroad most standard scenicing methods don't work.



I have found faux fur can be transmorgified into lots of things.

Harold
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 3, 2005 2:19 PM
So today (Sunday April 3) I traipse over to the Greenberg Train (and Toy) show in Wilmington, MA. Which I did not know was happening until I read about it in another thread on this forum.

Stuffed along one wall I come upon a long set of tables stacked with scenic details - you know, trees & tree kits, flocking etc. Well what do I stumble on? Both Silfor and Heki grass plus a Noch puffer bottle. Now I'm in trouble. Whilst perusing all this great stuff I feel a little nudge at my elbow and this fellow hands me a little basket (yeah I've got that much stuff [}:)]). And I needed it because the trees were way cool.

After spending a few minutes grabbing stuff I check out before I do any more damage to the already thin wallet. Of course in these situations you get to talking to the person running the table and he introduces himself -- Jim Elster. Now sometimes I'm a bit slow; it isn't until he says he'll throw in one of his catalogs that has "Scenic Express" emblazoned on it that I realize that I've just had one of those uncanny coincidences (and in case the rest of you are as slow a me Jim Elster is the owner of Scenic Express).

So thanks for the tip Joe! [:D]
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Posted by jfugate on Monday, April 4, 2005 11:25 AM
Rich:

That's a great story!

Now you see what I mean ... isn't the Scenic Express catalog a gold mine? Too bad their web site isn't such a disappointment . Their catalog is everything their web site is not.

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by cwclark on Monday, April 4, 2005 11:44 AM
Joe....what's a spring clamp?..will vise grips holding the wire at the end of a table work also?

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Posted by ukguy on Monday, April 4, 2005 11:44 AM
Joe & all, I contacted Scenic Express by e:mail in regards to aquiring one of their catalogues. The next day I recieved a detailed e:mail back (hows that for service) saying that they would place me on the mailing list to recieve the new catalogues whenever they were released (free of charge) and as I had just missed out on the last mailing if I sent them $3 to cover postage they would send me the current catalogue immediately.
I hope that their order shipping and processing is this good (as I am sure it is), its so good (and refreshing) to find a supplier with customer service in mind.

Now I cant wait to see the catalogue, man I hate waiting, God give me patience..... but hurry !!

Have fun & be safe,
Karl.

P.S Oh and she also stated in the e:mail that although the website was currently a little bare they were in the process of adding the rest of their products and updating the site.
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Posted by ukguy on Monday, April 4, 2005 12:31 PM
Another method I have discovered (probably reinventing another wheel) for making long grass is :-

1 Die the fake fur your desired colour
2 Glue the fake fur fluffy side DOWN in the area you want to cover. Leave overnight to dry.
3 Instead of ripping the backing off as per Joe's sweatshirt method, peel the backing back cutting the 'grass' to the desired height as you go using an exacto or scissors thus releasing the backing.

Two benefits are :-

1 Gives a very controlled method of placement and height. Also there is no backing 'edge' to hide as with the traditional fake fur method.
2 The backing that has been cut off will still have a good length of nap and can be used in the conventional method of fake fur (fluffy side up), also, this will require minimal height triming, hence you will get twice the area covered with the same amount of fake fur.

Have fun & be safe,
Karl.
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Posted by egmurphy on Monday, April 4, 2005 1:29 PM
Great thread. Thanks to Joe F for starting and maintaining it, and to everyone else for chipping in with great tips and suggestions.



Regards

Ed
The Rail Images Page of Ed Murphy "If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion and avoid the people, you might better stay home." - James Michener
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Posted by AggroJones on Monday, April 4, 2005 2:34 PM
ukguy, I was contimplating using fake fur in place of sweatshirt in that technique. Thanks for confirming that it works. Great minds think alike.

"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"

EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION

http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588

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Posted by AggroJones on Monday, April 4, 2005 2:48 PM
Dirt is okay for dirt. But sometimes it comes out a little dark. To fix this, I mix the scenic base color with white paint in a thin wash. And I spackle the ground with sponge wet with the wash. It looks terrible when applied, but it dries fantastic looking. Forgive the quality of the photo.


[2c]

"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"

EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION

http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588

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Posted by jfugate on Monday, April 4, 2005 8:50 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark

Joe....what's a spring clamp?..will vise grips holding the wire at the end of a table work also?


CW:

Vice grips would work also, but they're not quite as convenient as a spring clamp. You can find them in all sorts of sizes at any hardware store. I find the 2" and 3" sizes to be the most useful. Here's a photo:



If you do spline roadbed like I do, you'll have several dozen of these puppies lying around. [:D]

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by ukguy on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:09 PM
Did this topic die, I was looking forward to the next instalment. I'm not wanting to put any pressure on Mr Fugate at all, I much appreciate all that he (and everybody else) has contributed but it just seems a while since anybody posted. Call it pesimistic but is Mr Fugate OK? I hope so. Does anybody know?
Anyways I hope you are all havin fun and the wheels are on the rails,

Be safe & take care.
Karl.
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Posted by hminky on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:52 AM
I use paver sand. I prefer it over dirt and outdooor materials. Also the sand is that, sand. It is more consistent in texture and finish when it is glued. Dirt from outside needs to be debugged and demagnitized. Dirt offers suprises when it is glued.



That is paver sand in the foreground. I found that it is very versatile, see my web article.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/gravel/

Just a thought
Harold


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Posted by jfugate on Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:35 AM
I'm Okay, just very busy getting ready for my current April 9 op session ... next installment on this clinic coming soon ...

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by tomytuna on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:13 AM
To Joe and all contributors....please accept my sincere Thanks for this TOPIC...Joe...I'm sure that I can speak for many that this topic is suppurb....But like others..I will not CLOG up this post with mindless comments...but be assured..I love your " Clinics "..thanks again . Tom
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Posted by jfugate on Monday, April 11, 2005 12:24 PM
I'm currently building an op session report from my *very unusual* April Op session on the Siskiyou Line.

I've decided to do photo essay reports from Siskiyou Line op sessions as a vicarious tutorial to folks who may not be able to make prototype-based op sessions very often. I've got 40 some photos from last Saturday's op session and it will take me a while to get them all posted with captions. But once I do, I'll come back to this topic and do the next installment on rocks.

Here's one photo as a teaser ... Wink [;)]

(click to enlarge)

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, April 11, 2005 1:47 PM
And I am working on rocks right now. Dang!

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by jfugate on Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:44 AM
Well ... phoey! I had planned to post the next installment on rocks last night with photos, but this forum was down!

I'll try again tonight.

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by jfugate on Friday, April 15, 2005 3:59 AM
TOPIC THIS POST: Doing realistic rock faces

We'll start this post out with some prototype and model rock face photos ... of south Roseburg on the prototype SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon:

PROTOTYPE LOCATION

(Click to enlarge)


(Click to enlarge)


(Click to enlarge)

SAME LOCATION ON THE MODEL
Here's a couple photos of the same location on my HO Siskiyou Line:



(Click to enlarge)

I prefer to hand carve my rocks most of the time and it's difficult to describe exactly how hand carving is done other than to say just practice. I use a kitchen butter knife (one with a smooth edge, not one with serations) to do the work.

For this rock wall, I mixed up my standard vermiculite plaster mix (see previous posts for details) and then globbed it on in little bumpy globs, shaping it to look similar to the prototype photos. If you're hand carving and are new at it, it's best to work from prototype photos. If you aren't sure you can do hand carving, try working on a throwaway scrap piece of scenery first.

I did the final shaping while the plaster was still soft -- the vermiculite mix has a working time of about 10-15 minutes, which is just enough time to shape it but fast enough it will hold it's shape without you having to constantly check to make sure something didn't sag on you while you weren't looking.

Once the plaster sets up for a few hours (overnight is ideal), I paint it with my earth-tan 50-50 latex paint mix (again, see earlier posts).

Then, I mix a thin black-brown stain of water and raw umber brown acrylic paint, and paint it over the rock face, letting it settle into the cracks and crannies in order to give the rock face more texture. Plus as you can see from the prototype photos, these rocks are dark volcanic basalt, so tending toward the darker side is correct. However, I avoid making the rocks too dark (erring on the side of slightly too light) in order to compensate for the lower intensity of indoor layout lighting as compared to the sun.

I let the stain dry for a few hours then come back with some dirt brown plaster mix (see the ballasting post) and dust that on the rock faces, giving them a nice weathered, dusty look. Then I mist the face with water to set up the dirt plaster mix.

Finally, I dry brush some very light tan almost white on some of the protruding rock faces to give them a bit of extra highlight and snap. Then I let everything dry thoroughly for a day or so before proceeding on to plant vegetation in the area.

After that, for these rock faces, I planted some silfor grass using a hot glue gun. In comparing the model to the prototype, it's apparent to me I could probably stand to plant still more silfor.

NEXT TOPIC: Doing realistic paved roads

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 15, 2005 7:15 AM
Another winner, Joe! Plan to try your techniques, together with others, on rockfaces already started.

John
Austin, Texas
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, April 15, 2005 10:08 AM
Well tonight I was going to start carving my mountain. I have my prototype picture...

But dang that is some good scenery in those pictures.

You set the bar so I high I'm going to have to take up pole vaulting..

...maybe rocket powered shoes are more my style.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by n2mopac on Friday, April 15, 2005 10:21 AM
A recent article in MR (one of the Turtle Creek extension articles) talked about carving rocks from extruded foam by punching and gouging it with a screwdriver. I know Joe and some others here do not use foam for scenery, but some of my new layout has foam and I needed to make a couple of cuts for my mainline. I thought this sounded like a good way to make cuts through limestone hillside, so I tried it. It worked great for cuts and rocky bluffs like are found in the midwest. I worked with it some more and got a finer exture that resembled the more sandy rock cuts of the southwest. The foam requires a thicker paint and/or more coats to cover than plaster, but the overall effect of the rocks was very pleasing and easier than the rock castings I have done in the past.

Ron

Owner and superintendant of the N scale Texas Colorado & Western Railway, a protolanced representaion of the BNSF from Fort Worth, TX through Wichita Falls TX and into Colorado. 

Check out the TC&WRy on at https://www.facebook.com/TCWRy

Check out my MRR How-To YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/RonsTrainsNThings

 

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Posted by jfugate on Friday, April 15, 2005 11:14 PM
Ron:

Glad to hear your hand carving experiences were favorable.

I find I can hand carve rock faces faster than using lots of rock molds, and the results are almost as good. Especially for western Oregon scenery, where we don't have that many bare rock faces anyway, I can get away with hand carving most of the time.

I'll still use a rock mold here and there, but not as often as I hand carve.

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by hminky on Saturday, April 16, 2005 6:21 AM
I have had good luck with ceiling tiles for sedimentary rocks:



http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/more_rocks/

and have been experimenting with thin cork:



http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/thin_rocks/

Thank you if you visit
Harold
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Posted by electrolove on Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:23 AM
jfugate, is it possible to get the same realistic result with Whalters/Shinohara code 83 instead of ME track? The reason I'm asking is because I need a lot of number 4 turnouts on my layout and ME does not make any as far as I know.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

TOPIC THIS POST: Ballasting and weathering track

With the sky backdrop finished and the rough scenery plaster work done, I usually ballast and weather the track next. I use MicroEngineering flex track, codes 83, 70, and 55. I like this track because it has very tiny spike heads and a realistic randomness to the ties. Ballasted and weathered ME track looks better than handlaid, in my opinion.

(NOTE: Model Railroader editor Andy Sperandeo asked me to submit an article on these techniques, which I have done. My article might appear late this year (Nov/Dec) or sometime next year, so watch for it. In the meantime, I'm going to be covering these techniques in the Siskiyou Line video series video volume 4 on scenery, among other things.)

I ballast the track using Woodland Scenics fine gray ballast, which is a color that matches the prototype Siskiyou Line. You'll need to pick a color that is right for the region you model. Keep in mind that when you bond the ballast using the techniques I outline here that the color darkens slightly.

I spread and shape the ballast using my fingers and a small stiff-bristled brush. I like to use my fingers because it gives me lots of control. I use the stiff-bristled bru***o brush ballast away from the rail sides and off the tops of the ties after doing the shaping with my fingers. You want your ballast to be even with the tops of the ties, but not *on* the ties.

I use 70% isopropyl alcohol straight to wet the ballast prior to gluing. This pre-wetting step is essential because without it the glue will simply bead up all over the ballast and ruin all your careful shaping efforts. The alcohol is great because it goes right in without disturbing the ballast. I use an old white glue bottle, fill it with alcohol, set the tip to release just a drop at a time, and then dribble it all over the ballast until everything is soaked with alcohol.

Next, I bond the ballast with a white glue solution. I mix 1 part white glue to 3 parts water, and add several drops of dish detergent to the mix so it will soak in readily. Carefully dribble the white glue all over the ballast and let it dry overnight.

The white glue will displace a few ballast grains, but for the most part, things should stay put nicely if you follow these directions. For the few grains that always stray, after things have dried overnight, I take a small screwdriver and lightly scrape the stray grains off the rails and tie tops. Use light pressure on the rails so you don't strip any plastic spikeheads off the track (especially critical with ME track because of the tiny spikeheads).

Vaccum to remove any loose ballast grains.

I paint the sides of the rails with Pollyscale Roof Brown (mainline) or DRGW Depot Brown (sidings/spurs). I prefer waterbased paints, and Pollyscale sticks to the metal rails well. Use a size 00 brush, and don't fret if you get paint on the ties. If you look at real track, you'll see some of the weather color on the tie plates and ties under the rail -- so you're just making things more realistic if you get the rail weathering color on the ties around the base of the rail!

Next, I use an old phonebook as a paint palate and mix some craft acrylic paint (black, brown, white) to get some black-brown and gray-brown color that I paint randomly on a few ties using a size 0 brush. Hit maybe 20-30% of the ties to give them some realistic variation. Paint spur and siding ties more weathered brown and gray tints to reflect the greater weathering and less maintenance they typically get.

Let everything dry for about 30 minutes.

Next, we need to weather between the rails. Looking at prototype track, it tends to weather differently between the rails than it does elsewhere. To simulate this, I mix 1 part plaster with 1-part black powered tempera paint and bru***his dry powdered mixture down the middle of the track (mainline).

I mix 1 part black, 1 part yellow, 2 parts brown, and 4 parts plaster and bru***his dry powdered mixture down the middle of sidings and spurs.

I mist the track with wet water to fix the plaster-tempera mix in place (it will also fade somewhat). The secret is the plaster in this mix -- that will make between-the-track weathering more or less permanent once you mist it with water and it dries. For extra heavy weathering, brush some more weathering powder between the rails while the track is still damp.

Finally, I clean off the railheads with 600 grit sandpaper (poli***he railheads, really) and then vacuum.

Here's a photo of some finished track done this way (from the MR article):


(click on the photo for a closeup)

Notice how realistic the track looks. If you treat the track like any other model and weather it appropriately, it will look great!

NEXT TOPIC: Finishing the rough scenery: applying dirt/background grass
Rio Grande Zephyr 5771 from Denver, Colorado to Salt Lake City, Utah "Thru the Rockies"
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Posted by jfugate on Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:25 AM
Electro:

The spikeheads are larger on Walthers/Shinohara code 83 track but otherwise, yes -- you will get nice results if you follow the techniques for ballasting and weathering your track.

In fact, even Atlas code 100 with it's coarse detail will benefit greatly from ballasting and weathering. To the eye of one standing up and operating the layout, it's hard to tell the difference between code 100 and code 83 at that distance. If you have a tight budget, Atlas code 100 is pretty cheap, and if it's ballasted and weathered, it looks acceptable.

It's only when you get down close with the camera that the differences really stand out in the look of the track. I tell people if they aren't planning to take lots of in close photos of their layout for publication, then the fine detail on ME track isn't as important.

I've got ME, Walthers/Shinohara, Atlas, and even Peco turnouts on the Siskiyou Line. Once it's all properly ballasted and weathered, it's hard to even tell the difference. For example, this photo has an Atlas code 83 #6 turnout in it ...



If you look real close at the points area, you can see the larger spikes on the Atlas turnout, but it's not offensive because the ballasting and weathering helps it blend in. Here's an extreme closeup of just the points area:


Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by electrolove on Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:04 PM
jfugate, thanks a lot for your answer. This is amazing, sooooooo real :) I could never guess that it was a atlas code 83 turnout. I will use your techniques for ballasting and weathering. I will use Shinohara code 83 for my track and turnouts. It feels really good to ask a pro like you.

If you have the time, can you please tell me about the other things in this picture, for example, what manufacturers is making all the details in this picture? I think that will help me understand what you are doing to get these incredible results.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm from Sweden so this is not my language and it's sometimes a little hard to explain what I want to ask [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Electro:

The spikeheads are larger on Walthers/Shinohara code 83 track but otherwise, yes -- you will get nice results if you follow the techniques for ballasting and weathering your track.

In fact, even Atlas code 100 with it's coarse detail will benefit greatly from ballasting and weathering. To the eye of one standing up and operating the layout, it's hard to tell the difference between code 100 and code 83 at that distance. If you have a tight budget, Atlas code 100 is pretty cheap, and if it's ballasted and weathered, it looks acceptable.

It's only when you get down close with the camera that the differences really stand out in the look of the track. I tell people if they aren't planning to take lots of in close photos of their layout for publication, then the fine detail on ME track isn't as important.

I've got ME, Walthers/Shinohara, Atlas, and even Peco turnouts on the Siskiyou Line. Once it's all properly ballasted and weathered, it's hard to even tell the difference. For example, this photo has an Atlas code 83 #6 turnout in it ...


To see a larger version of this photo, click here:
http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/images/post_photos/large/Photo_20.jpg

If you look real close at the points area, you can see the larger spikes on the Atlas turnout, but it's not offensive because the ballasting and weathering helps it blend in. Here's an extreme closeup of just the points area:



To see a larger version of this photo, click here:
http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/images/post_photos/large/Photo_20_turnout.jpg
Rio Grande Zephyr 5771 from Denver, Colorado to Salt Lake City, Utah "Thru the Rockies"
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Posted by jfugate on Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:38 PM
Electro:

Those are Rix Products telegraph poles, a Details West switch stand, and Tomar lower quadrant semaphores.

The loco is an Atlas GP40 that's had extra details put on it, and a Digitrax DH142 decoder installed using miniatronics 1.5v bulbs for headlights.

Any other questions I can answer for you?

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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