Joe
Modeling:
Providence & Worcester Railroad
"East Providence Secondary"
HO scale
I knew almost nothing about either steam or railroad operations until I spent a couple of days at the Nevada Northern RR in Nevada a few years ago, shortly after I began building my layout. I took part in their "be the engineer" program so got to operate their 1909 Alco 2-8-0, and also had full run of the yard and facilities. It was the first time that I ever actually saw a real steam loco in operation. And the experience turned out to be very useful when designing/building my railroad.
As the guys have discussed it takes a huge amount of maintenance and support to run steam. The crew started at 5:00 AM getting the fire going, lubing etc. for the first excursion that ran at 10:00. So there needs to be an engine house or dedicated area for that work to take place. And there is coal and water supply to consider. The tipple at NN is no longer in use and they load coal with a tractor with a front end bucket now, but there should be coal storage somewhere in the yard with ways of loading and unloading it. There should also be an ash pit- at NN this looks like a little bridge with a grate and pit underneath. They put the loco on top and open up the bottom of the firebox to drop the ash. If really modeling accurately you would want areas for all of this.
As far as operations goes, the biggest difference is that steamers are designed to go in one direction. Yes they will back up, but my impression is that this was not a normal mode of operation. The yard at NN has a wye and there is also a wye at an old mine that is used to turn the train back around to head back to the yard. Guessing here but for small lines like NN this was probably much more common than a turntable.
Even with the loco fired up and ready to go it took the better part of an hour in the yard to move cars around and negotiate the wye before we finally got on the mainline and I put my hand on the throttle. Working our way through the yard turnouts took a bunch of time- there was a lot more to it than I realized. As far as operation on the mainline goes, the one thing that struck me was that a lot of the grades were steeper than what I am used to seeing on modern railroads around here. The grades made it more fun to operate the loco since constant attention was required to maintain proper speed. And pulling the hills and braking going down made me feel good about the grades that had already built into my railroad design.
So how to apply all this to the layout- in my case I had already designed a double dogbone to keep the steamers going forward. And a yard with a turntable. But I added a reversing loop to get trains turned around since the turntable is way off in the future. And I am considering skipping the turntable in favor of a wye, but a wye takes up a lot of territory and haven't figured out how to fit it into my space. I am also re-thinking the yard design to make more room for all the support areas.
Don't know if any of this helps, but food for thought.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Just read you are planning at going on an excursion. That should give you some good insight!
Can't help it... here are a couple of pics from my experience. A consolidation may be a relatively small loco, but it is still a big fire-breathing powerful monster. And yes that's me at the throttle waving :)
HObbyguyYes they will back up, but my impression is that this was not a normal mode of operation.
Back in the steam era that was very common on urban locals,transfer runs,some branch lines that no longer had the means to turn a engine and even some mine runs to return tender first to the yard. Today's steam powered tourist roads is fine but,they lost the understanding of railroading as it was and what was required to get the job done.
Railroading for a living in the steam era was not work for the faint hearted. It was harsh work under harsher conditions where your constant companion was death or injury..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
As Larry says, reverse operation of steam locos was quite common. A local switcher, or a shortline or branchline train, often had no place to turn at the end of a run, so it simply ran to the opposite end of the train. On many lines, engines were never turned. The practice is still common on a lot of tourist operations such as the Strasburg, which is one of the country's most successful tourist railroads.
Operationally, a steam loco is equally powerful in either direction. Because of the design of the suspension, there can be stability issues when steam engines are operated in reverse at high speeds, so employees are instructed to reduce the speed when operating in reverse. Sometimes a trailing truck can help in reverse moves, but not always. Leading trucks are designed to support weight AND to guide the engine into curves; trailing trucks usually just supported weight.
The classic means of turning an engine is with a turntable, but a wye was probably more common because it cost less to build and maintain, even though it took up more space. Relocating a turntable was also much more problematic than relocating a wye. Balloon loops were rare, but could be found occasionally. I understand that's what the N&W used at Winston Salem, NC.
Servicing was obviously necessary, but the means might range from a massive coal dock, down to a simple coal pile and conveyor belt, or a bucket and crane arrangement. We think of large water tanks as essential servicing components; but in actual fact, some small time operations just used a hose from the municipal water supply. The bottom line was that the job had to get done, with whatever resources were available.
Tom
As a fun fact..Engineers would make a backrest for these reverse moves and would place the backrest in the cab's window.This ease their back strain while operating in reverse.
Now the real fun part.. The head brakeman would ride the tender deck (that's the flat area where the tender's water hatch is located) in order to protect the reverse travel. You can imagine what it was like in inclement weather.
Brakie, I am hardly a RR historian and no doubt you are right- they did what they had to to get the job done. So no reason not to consider point-to-point with that in mind. I haven't built my second dogbone end yet so I've been run my steamers backwards. But looking forward to being able to turn them around.
I'll add a bit of insight on this- even going forward visibility looking along the length of the boiler is very poor and I relied entirely on the fireman to watch down the line on left-hand curves. Visibility going backward is non-existant without hanging way out the window and I didn't feel at all comfortable when I had to do that. I can't imagine that would be fun for an extended run- they must have had a spotter up on the tender watching back in the day.
Yes very dirty, hot, and hard work with an element of danger especially by today's standards. After just a few hours running we had to change clothes before getting into the car for the ride back to Vegas. We gave away our gloves and my wife even gave away her jacket to a "firegirl" there- she was sure getting it clean again was hopeless.
Our last posts crossed but one more thought on this- if you look you can see the pad extending outside the bottom of the window in my second pic. Nice soft seating useful when backing up. Not exactly up to OSHA standards but better than a hard steel sill.
HObbyguyI'll add a bit of insight on this- even going forward visibility looking along the length of the boiler is very poor and I relied entirely on the fireman to watch down the line on left-hand curves.
Absolutely.. Now add a poor grade of coal that put out a lot of thick smoke and you had a serious issue at times especially when the smoke blocked your forward view.
The engineers would lean out the window just far enough to see along the side on the tender and poor head brakeman would be riding the deck of the tender like I mention above.
The same issues applies when looking down the long hood of a road switcher like a GP9. Worst was a SD45 with the long hood being the front.
From a practical standpoint, code 83 has the most variety and types of track pieces. It emulates standard main line rail.
Just for fun, I did a quick search on Walthers for code 83 track; it returned 307 items; code 70 returned 155 items and code 55 returned 65 items. Of course the search has a lot of duplicate items from different manufacturers and would include things like EZ track & clones
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
In 1942, the very largest rail in use was about 155 pound, which roughly translates to Code 100. I understand it could be found on certain very heavy duty lines of the Bessemer & Lake Erie, New Haven, and Pennsylvania Railroad. On most railroads, the very heaviest rail would be in the 130-140 pound range, which is roughly equivalent to Code 83. This is the size used by mainlines of the C&O, UP and SP, which were operating Alleghenies, Big Boys and Cab Forwards respectively in 1942. Many mainlines used rail in the 90 to 120 pound size, which is approximated by Code 70. Lesser lines, as well as many secondary tracks and passing tracks, would have used even lighter rail, best represented by Code 55. The numbers I have used above are approximations.
In actual practice, I think Code 70 is your best bet. You might want to try some Code 55 on secondary tracks. Painting the rail can de-emphasize its size, so that it may look smaller. Weathering the ties and planting weeds between ties can contribute to the look of lighter construction. I would use the Code 83 components in unseen staging areas if I were you.
Most prototype frog numbers are higher than 6 or 8, but those are perfectly acceptable for most model purposes. Even number 4 and 5 can be practical with models, especially if you run small equipment, but my personal suggestion is to stick with number 6 or higher as much as possible.
I have found the rails on short lines and spurs across Canada to range from 90-110 pound rail, almost always made by Dominion Steel. That would place it in scale at the Code 70-75 range.
"Freight Cars of the '40s and '50's" by Jeff Wilson, recently published by Kalmbach, has a lot of usefull info for that era.
https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/garden-railroading/12489__Freight-Cars-of-the-40s-and-50s
With rail, it's a compromise. Code 83 has the most options as it's the most popular today. However, it's roughly 132 lb. rail. This is heavy stuff, but RR's like the New Haven were installing it back in the 1950's.
Code 70 is roughly 107 lb. rail, which was the common mainline rail for the first half of the 1900's. However, Code 70 track is fairly limited when it comes to diamond and switch selection.
Historically, only the PRR used 155 lb. rail (Code 100). Today, 155 lb. rail is found on modern roads, with even some 156 lb. rail being used in places. Code 100 is the old standard for our hobby, and is widely available in the secondhand market for cheap money.
For my NH layout, I used Code 83 because it was a compromise I could live with: better looking than Code 100 with more availability than Code 70. I bought Atlas Code 83 because I was able to get it for $1.99 a yard (10+ years ago, now).
Paul A. Cutler III