I picked up what I believe is an old Walthers passenger car - wood floor and roof, cast metal ends and tinplate sides - that I'm looking to rebuild and detail. I'm old enough to remember that Walthers produced a whole line of these cars. I'm not sure if the car is a Pullman (it has the paired windows) or a diner (odd roof details over the blunt, non-A/C end)
Is there a site that lists the cars and their configuration, like an old Walthers catalog? If there isn't I'll post a photo of the car.
Thanks
I'm looking at the Walthers 1961 catalog, and I'm not finding anything that exactly matches your description. The catalog numbers shown range from 7808 to 7876 for the 25 cars illustrated, so it's possible you have one that isn't shown here. Likely, even, since nothing appears to match.
Also, Walthers did special runs. I've got a New York Central diner that doesn't show in the book.
I recommend posting pix.
Heavyweight diners always (???) have very small windows for the kitchen area. There are typically 3 or 4. And they're on the left "half" of the car as you look at the side, but only on one side. And diners "never" have a vestibule at the end, while Pullmans "always" do.
Paired windows in sleepers typically signify sections. So that gets me thinking sleeper. But they usually don't have a whole lot of "stuff" on the roof at one end. Though, come to think of it, I seem to recall Santa Fe cars often had a big old hatchy looking thing up top towards one end.
Yup, a photo or six would be nice.
Ed
The invaluable HO Seeker website reproduces many old Wathers catalog covers
http://hoseeker.net/walthers.html
but for some reason I am not able to open pages in the old catalogs. I wonder if HO Seeker needs some site maintenance?
Walthers was able to create many punched metal passenger car side patterns using their tooling, so over the years they created lots of cars. I can remember seeing their very old car kits that lacked rivet detail.
You might also want to track down some of their old lettering and decaling booklets.
I think we're going to need a photo of the car.
Dave Nelson
It sounds like these could indeed be Walthers. J-C Silver Sides also produced similar kits, mostly for cars appropriate for PRR and NYC. Photos would certainly help.
Tom
I've got an old Walthers car that sounds similar to yours - mine is an 8 section Pullman. The box is labeled for "CRESTLINE MODELS" - "WM.K. WALTHERS Milwauke, Wis.", and stamped 6603. Searching for "Crestline" on Ho Seeker might help.
And an old catalog of mine says the 6603 was an 80' Pullman observation 10 section. But I suppose numbers could change over time.
Crestline appears to have been an early trademark of Walthers itself, just maybe to differentiate its HO line from its established O scale line? Pure speculation by me, based on this photo of a Crestline box that clearly uses the artwork of Walthers boxes of the time:
http://www.oldmodelkits.com/blog/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/img_0052.JPG
" alt="SIDE VIEW" width="dk" height="dk" />
The pic did not come through, at least not on this computer
Maybe this?
And these
That's a diner. Or, at least, some sort of food service car--diner-lounge, diner-parlor, etc.
It's interesting there's a vestibule. Don't recall that. I would guess the car was converted from something--maybe a sleeper, with those windows. Though, it it was formerly a sleeper, the paired windows look too close to the right to suit me.
There's nothing like it in the '61 Walthers catalog.
There's also a slight possibility it's a "made up" car. I doubt it--why not copy a real one.
vtrman49 Maybe this?
This looks like FP-3 Dining Car (New York Central) in the 1973 Walthers Catalog p24.
According to the blurb the Favorite Prototype Series (FP1 - FP7)were produced in limited quantities and only one run. Unfortunately, there are drawings (one side only) for these cars, but not photographs. The drawing matches this picture except the drawing has no air duct on the roof.
Enjoy
Paul
A bit of poking around at photos of old heavyweight cars shows that:
Paired windows in diners was not uncommon.
Vestibules were not uncommon in food service type cars. I do suspect that they were generally left off of full diners, as opposed to diner-parlor or other more unusual layouts. Vestibules were for customers to get on and off their cars. Diners did not sell seats, so I don't see a need for a (space wasting) vestibule. A diner-parlor, however, WOULD have seats for sale, and thus would "need" a vestibule.
Aha!
Yes, a New York Central diner (this D&H car is former NYC 519):
And that is most likely the car I have, tucked away somewhere. My recollection is that the sides came painted NYC two-tone. I painted over that. Perhaps wrongly.
Yessss! A NYC diner, Walthers FP-3 model. Mystery solved.
Thanks all
Ron
I saw a lot of references to Walthers catalogs. Surprised no one mentioned the book, Walthers Passenger Car Plans. I have the revised second edition, published 1973 at $3.00. Shows side elevations and interior floor plans or some 60 to 80 cars with variations, suggested adaptations, etc. I refer to it from time to time. If I didn't have one, I might be tempted to bid up to 10 bucks or so for an old copy on "that auction site."
The NSSR's diner is a former GN diner. It has a vestibule on each end. I know this I I was standing in both (not at the same time) just last night on our pizza and fine dining evening run. Like those runs, always plenty of left overs for grazing.
God's Best & Happy Rails to You!
Bing (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)
The future: Dead Rail Society
bing&kathy The NSSR's diner is a former GN diner. It has a vestibule on each end. I know this I I was standing in both (not at the same time) just last night on our pizza and fine dining evening run. Like those runs, always plenty of left overs for grazing.
The picture of NSSR's diner I'm looking at is painted and lettered for GN 1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES. There is no vestibule at either end.
I've also looked at photos of other GN diners. I'm not seeing any vestibules.
Am I missing something?
I agree with Paul on this car being a Walther's FP-3. In my copy of "Walthers Passenger Car Plans" 2nd edition1973, plans are shown for this car as NYC class D-74 36 seat dining car. The plan information indicates that the car utilized a concealed air conditioning duct and would not have the exterior duct that this model exhibits. It otherwise displays a faithful modeling effort of this kit. A non-airconditioned car would according to the plans, have 27 ward vents over the dining section.
Looks like a fun model to have acquired.
Bob Bochenek
Here is a scan of the FP-3 plan:
The floor plan is very interesting. It looks like a Walthers version of an official diagram. The presence of the refrigerator in the vestibule area on the right (upper) side indicates that the vestibule was sealed, at least on that side. I see no reason for the end view to include steps on both sides. Maybe that's just a stock Walthers end view. The two-and-four seating is interesting, and would be interesting and different to model. Diners need loading doors to load supplies. It's no surprise that there's a loading door leading into the kitchen on the left (lower) side, but it's a bit unusual to have a diner that doesn't have a loading door on the opposite side for flexibility.
It would be interesting to see right side views of the model and the prototype in order to see whether any provision was made for loading supplies from that side, or if the vestibule steps were retained after installation of that refrigerator.
A very interesting car.
And I found this photo:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-649.jpg
So it looks like there was an A?C duct added to some cars - This was #649