DCC - This is fun??

[jacon12]

Jim, I'll admit that some of this CV stuff gets pretty complicated thus many of my engines are happily running the layout just as they came from the box.  Others have had their 'momentum' adjusted so that they behave more like the prototype.  It's really just another aspect of the hobby that one can choose to dive into....  or not.

Much like doing scenery!

We all see layouts that are meticulously detailed and others that are little more than track spiked to plywood.  I guess it's whatever floats yer boat.  

In our club it is a standard joke that some electronics geek wrote the Digitrax instruction manuals when that job should have been delegated to someone in the public relations business.

But, who reads instruction books anyway......., until we have a problem.  Real men don't need no stinkin' manuals!!    

Jarrell

 

 

 

mononguy63

I post this with some trepidation knowing I risk igniting another DC vs DCC flame war. Please know that is not my intent, and if it degrades so then I preemptively sincerely apologize. That caveat having been presented, here goes:

I was amused reading Andy Sperandeo's column in the March issue of MRR, in which he discusses momentum effects in switching. The parts that struck me were where he talks about "remapping Function 11 to F9" and this word-for-word quote, "...the brake subtracts an amount determined by CV61 from the value of CV4." I read that and had to ask myself whether he was still talking about model railroading or had gone on to doing his taxes. He talked about studying decoder manuals and pulling information from page 50 of the Diesel Sound User's Guide. Page 50!?!? Good heavens, I have no interest in reading a 50-page user's guide to learn the best way to optimize my engine's performance. I also have no interest in programming up to 61 different control variables to optimize my locomotive's performance. Where's the fun in that? If I want that kind of fun, I'll just go back to my workplace and run some of our engineering analysis software!

I'm quite happy thank you very much with my simple DC system. The less I have to deal with electronics in general, the better off I am. The last thing I want to do when playing with my trains is to have to think really hard about much of anything. Further justification in my own mind why I'm even less interested in making the switch.

Happy (and fun!) railroading

Jim

[Randy Stahl]

I am a DCC newbie , I'm just now looking to invest in some control equipment . One question that's been bothering me concerns the addresses of the locomotives. It appears that most are 2-4 numeric numbers to describe the locomotive. What if I have multiple locomotives with the same number , for example a Milw 80A and a CNW 80A? or what if I want a consist of locomotives that are alpha numeric like 96A,96B,96C etc.. Some of my locomotives are electric E-80-not to be confused with the 80A.B, or C. I'd hate to have an index of my locomotives to figure out the digital addresses of my power.

 

Randy

[Sperandeo]

Hello Jim, and everyone else,

I didn't think there was so much to get upset about in my column. I looked at it as a way of getting the most from the electronics I'd already decided to use, and I like the description of what I was writing about as "superdetail for operation."

But all that aside, yes, DCC control is a lot of fun, and DCC sound is even moreso. I really get a kick out of running that switcher and my other Tsunami-equipped locomotives, which all have similar CV setups.

Every month in The Operators I try to write about things I think are fun. I hope some of MR's audience feels the same way, but I'd never for a moment suggest that everybody has to do things the way I do.

Have a good weekend,

Andy

[mononguy63]

Hello, Andy. It's a true pleasure to hear from you! This thread had been a real gas to me, and I'm grateful for the generally civil tone. I do fear that some responders did reply in a somewhat less lighthearted attitude than I had when composing the original post, though.

At any rate, it's been fun. Has anyone started WPF yet?

Jim

[maxman]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Maxman, one question, how does the operator know the turnout numbers to operate them from the throttle? A track diagram, with numbers, even without any electrical devices, is still a control panel in my mind.

As previously stated, sound alone is reason enough to go DCC, I don't want sound.

And, not wanting sound was a major factor in my consideration of other options.

Does your club have signaling or CTC?

Sheldon

Concerning the turnout numbers, I made up some mile-marker  or whistle-looking posts and put them next to the turnouts that need to be remotely operated.  The "engineer" can see them from the operating pit.  They are probably over-size for a whistle post, but we can live with them just as we live with oversize #5 couplers and oversize Caboose Industries hand throws for the sidings.  So, no, there is not any track diagram that needs to be looked at.

No,we don't have signalling or CTC.  There are some members that occasionally make noise about that.  But right now the cost of setting that up is prohibitive.  Plus someone always wants to re-route this or that track.  And then you need a dedicated individual who would want to make installing, changing, and maintaining such a system his sole reason for being a member.  And what happens when he moves or quits?  We already have a rats nest of DC wiring under the railroad left behind by 33 years of members who have moved on or died.

Concerning sound, well that happened to be, for us, a pleasant side effect.  We have public open houses on five weekends of the year.  I'm pretty sure that many of the members no longer enjoy them due to the additional time commitment.  But they are necessary because the donations are how we derive the majority of the funds to keep the place going.  So how do we entertain them?  The sounds go a long way to keeping them interested.  And no longer do we have to hear the "where's the train" commentary from the public.  With the sound, they know something is coming.

My personal opinion regarding sound is that it adds play value.  And if we are trying to attract new model railroaders (meaning youngsters), the trains need to do more than run silently around the track.  Back when you were a kid you probably (or maybe not) played a pinball machine.  To me part of the attraction was all the different sounds the machine made.  Occasionally you'd get the machine that worked but the sound effects were dead.  That wasn't any fun, and I moved on.  I'm pretty certain that today's youth would feel the same way about all the video games that they are attracted to.  Even the simplest of them have all the different sound effects.  The kid would not sit there if there were only visual stimulation.

Anyway, to each their own.

Regards

[UncBob]

I went to DCC so I could use all the sound functions and run my 2 trains( one on each oval ) off a single supply

 

I bought NCE Power Cab and am completely satisfied

The only variable I changed  was the sound level of the engine chugs

They way they come from the factory was way to high for my ears

 

But I am a round they go type of operator with no consists or switching

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

Maxman, that's a very good solution to the turnout number problem, now if it didn't take five key strokes......I have control panels, but even complex routes through interlockings are set with only one push button, and can be done from multiple panels where needed.

I also agree and understand that clubs, by their nature, are ambassadors for attracting new people to the hobby. I have expressed my views on that in the recent thread on that topic and will not repeat them, other than to say I'm more of a lone wolf, happy to only socialize with a small group of other modelers.

And I understand the construction and maintenence issues at clubs - another reason clubs are not for me.

And I will not repeat my views on sound, it's simply not for me, at least not in scales as small as HO.

But signaling and dispatching are very important to me, so my time, money and effort goes in that direction, not in the installation of decoders, sound or otherwise, in 130 locos that run fine without them. 

And yes, to each his own.

Sheldon

[rrinker]

 The only reason I have DCC decoders on my turnouts is because I hope to have a dispatcher panel at some point. The dream plan is for a real one, not a virtual computer one, but that will have to wait for a larger layout room. In themeantime, the controls I use have buttons and indicators ont he fascia, and just happen to also be DCC decoders, and the electronics plus servo come out to be less than the price of a Tortoise without a toggle switch, LEDs, or decoder. My layout is small enough that if I actually did start using my DCC controller to operate them, I'd probably memorize all the numbers fairly quickly - it does help that I came up with an address scheme that indicates the location as well, since I only have a dozen and a half turnouts ont he whole thing. But it is fairly awkward to do from a throttle, and it's the same with any brand of system. I only have 2 fully operational at the moment, and even though their addresses are clearly written on my temporary cardboard control panel, I always just push the buttons instead. Much easier.

                            --Randy

 

[rclanger]

simon1966

It is entirely up to you how you choose to super-detail both the look and performance of your locomotive.   Think of Andy's article as a super detailing piece.

Exactly, well said.

[dinwitty]

I havent read the rest of this thread, responding to the first post.

 

I am one of them first guys who regears their engine to slow speed, add marker lights, add sound, and this was DC.

DCC has made many of these features a regular now on models than the rare. 

For motor operation, Back EMF add more control to getting the engine to run smoothly, I am so impressed on speed 1 my Y6b crawls. I have worked on regearing a rivarrossi Y6b and remotor it with a can and BLI's Y6b beat my work. 

You dont need to read the 5000000 page manual to enjoy DCC, I have a lot of DC models still and my layout will mix the 2. Too many engines to convert all at once. 

 

[jfallon]

Randy Stahl

I am a DCC newbie , I'm just now looking to invest in some control equipment . One question that's been bothering me concerns the addresses of the locomotives. It appears that most are 2-4 numeric numbers to describe the locomotive. What if I have multiple locomotives with the same number , for example a Milw 80A and a CNW 80A? or what if I want a consist of locomotives that are alpha numeric like 96A,96B,96C etc.. Some of my locomotives are electric E-80-not to be confused with the 80A.B, or C. I'd hate to have an index of my locomotives to figure out the digital addresses of my power.

 

Randy

Randy,

     You can program any number you like into a decoder, regardless of the locomotive cab number. Programming to the cab number helps old folks like myself remember what it is. There are a few locomotives of mine with no cab number, or one already in use by another, so I programmed something else for their addresses. In each case, I marked the underside of the locomotive with its address number. I used a label maker, but a Sharpie marker in a contrasting color will work.

                                                 John

[ClinchValleySD40]

mononguy63

I post this with some trepidation knowing I risk igniting another DC vs DCC flame war. Please know that is not my intent, and if it degrades so then I preemptively sincerely apologize. That caveat having been presented, here goes:

 I'm quite happy thank you very much with my simple DC system. The less I have to deal with electronics in general, the better off I am. The last thing I want to do when playing with my trains is to have to think really hard about much of anything. Further justification in my own mind why I'm even less interested in making the switch.

Happy (and fun!) railroading

Jim

So, stick with DC.  

[jwhitten]

selector

 

Doughless:

 

Okay.  Before rudeness and mindless competition gets this thread locked...  The OP was talking about an article that gets fairly deep "into the weeds" of DCC...

 

 

Wasn't too long ago Model Railroader was heavily criticized for being too light-weight, too commercial, and geared toward the newbie.  Now we get a serious article on the potential in something as mundane as a locomotive decoder and we hear that it is too hard, too complex, requires too much reading, too advanced, too techincal........

No good deed shall go unpunished in this hobby.

Crandell

 

Frankly, I thought it was a great article and am looking forward to trying out Andy's suggestions. I'm one of those folks who have complained that MR has been getting too light-weight and commercial. And I was pleasantly surprised and pleased to see that maybe they're starting to add some more engaging content.

I am a DCC user and proponent, but I don't see the point in bashing or putting down folks who choose to run DC instead. My first layout many years ago used DC blocks and two cabs. I had a good time running a train on the main while switching in the yard. I view DCC as a natural and logical extension to these goals, but if someone wants to use or continue to use DC, why the heck should I care??

As long as their trains go choo choo and amble down the tracks in a way they find pleasing, what difference does it make???

John

[Forty Niner]

I think you've hit the nail on the head here John, couldn't have said it any better if I had tried!

Mark

RMR

[selector]

jwhitten

...I don't see the point in bashing or putting down folks who choose to run DC instead. ...

As long as their trains go choo choo and amble down the tracks in a way they find pleasing, what difference does it make???

John

I quite agree, John, and neither should those who opt for DCC be labeled as anything else but interested model train buffs when they avail themselves of all the fun that DCC can offer.   Andy's article was meant to be a more robust exposure to things about our hobby than he and his staff had been criticized for not doing just a year or two back.  My comment was that when he chose to tackle something in more depth, and it happened to be decoder exploitation, it turns out that we are to accept that it us just too much bother for some readers. Well, okay, but we are all like that about certain parts of the hobby.  It may be ballasting, weathering, super-detailing, or scratch-building.

I am really beginning to side with the long-toothers in the hobby who say that the population of newer people don't seem to want to get the lees out of the mug...they just want the top foam.

Gads, I'm becoming a curmudgeon!!! 

Crandell

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

Gads, I'm becoming a curmudgeon!!! 

Welcome to the club!

Sheldon

[Curt Webb]

My co-workers call me Walter from Jeff  Dunham, so I guess I am there also.

[fwright]

I'm a DC user - and I thought it was a great article.  The same operating technique has been discussed in the past with some of the more sophisticated DC throttles.  Like DCC, it would take some tweaking of the right parameters, but I'm pretty sure it could be done.  The disadvantage in DC is having to readjust the throttle when you change locomotives since the parameters are in the throttle and not the individual decoders.

I have heard tales of engineers in the days of steam using the cutoff as the primary control rather than the throttle.

Thanks Andy for the article.

Fred W

[BRAKIE]

Guys,Take time to watch this video..

But,understand this type of operation isn't for everybody..

IMHO its DCC/Sound at its best.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYovzfNiFKQ

 

[Capt. Grimek]

Jarrel, does your club have the older Digitrax manuals or the more current?  There's a huge IMHO, difference in computer speak and layman approach as I said in a post on page (I think) 2. Just wondering for a "survey" kind of check.

Andy thanks for chiming in. I also looked at this article as something I'll get around to later on down the road

like super detailing, after my layout is up and running for ops.

[blownout cylinder]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Gads, I'm becoming a curmudgeon!!! 

Welcome to the club!

Sheldon

Ohnoes Ohnoes!!!...