Beginner questions.

[BC Don]

  As a newby, with respect to starting, which would you recommend:

1) Find an existing Plan, including landscape ideas and try to build that.

2) Create my own plan and start adding in modeling details as I go.

3) Create some scenery (mountains, plains, cliffs, etc.) as small independent trials which I create and then toss away just to figure out how to do it.

4) Start out with a 4 X 8 layout.

5) Start with a larger layout (corner, 4' deep, 8' along each wall).

And as far as getting used to "how" trains will run should I:

1) Purchase some basic, inexpensive rolling stock and an engine to "see" how it would run along various track configurations?

2) Stick with "general recommendations" (whatever those are).

I've heard that adding an extra 6" to a foot (beyond the 4 X 8) makes a pretty big difference.  Comments?

 

[gandydancer19]

 1) Find an existing Plan, including landscape ideas and try to build that.

I think that would be best to start with.  Actually, if you can find some back issues of Model Railroader that has a series of articles of a small layout in progress, you could build along with the articles.  They would teach you step by step.  But sometimes it is more fun to pick a plan and build that and develop your own techniques as you go.  Just a couple of different options.

 

1) Purchase some basic, inexpensive rolling stock and an engine to "see" how it would run along various track configurations.

Small curves call for small rolling stock.  18 inch radius is good for four axle type locomotives (GP-9 etc.) and 40 foot cars.  50 foot may be OK, but 40 looks better.  Most HO items will run on 18 inch radius, but the big stuff doesn't "look" good doing it.

[Dave-the-Train]

First thing to realise is that if you ask two RR modellers a question you will get at least two different answers and probably more... ask a whole forum full...   

BC Don

  As a newby, with respect to starting, which would you recommend:

1) Find an existing Plan, including landscape ideas and try to build that.  Why do something that has already been done?  Better to take a look at lots of the useful books, magazine articles and internet stuff on how/what to plan... In fact better still to go a step back into all the information/advice available on how to figure out what you want to do for your own aims.  There is a very useful concept of "givens and druthers".

2) Create my own plan and start adding in modeling details as I go.  Where are you going to start?  Which can be clarified with information on how old you are (broadly - teen, 20s, 30s, 90s...)  This is relevent because it will influence bothe what you may have in mind, possible developed skills, eyesight (very relevent) and flexibility... ability to get under layout for wiring up etc. 

When looking to develop a plan it is better to have a bunch of railroad stuff in mind and then model that.  You then select your models around that.  It is a then a matter of decidig for yourself what sort of standard of model you want to achieve - do you want broad outline or fine detail?

You haven't told us what scale you are thinking of modelling in...

3) Create some scenery (mountains, plains, cliffs, etc.) as small independent trials which I create and then toss away just to figure out how to do it. Why set out to waste time, effort and cash?  It does make sense to do small test trials and to develop techniques but if you can follow a car maintenance manual you should be able to follow the kind of instructions you will find in magazines and here.  You can always ask here for where to find such instructions.

4) Start out with a 4 X 8 layout.  No!  Why would you do that?  The openly biased among us will tell you that you will never achieve a decent layout in 8x4.

5) Start with a larger layout (corner, 4' deep, 8' along each wall).  Do you mean 4' from front edge of layout back to the wall?  If you do, how are you going to get access to things near the wall?

And as far as getting used to "how" trains will run should I:  They wil run as well as the way you have laid your track and wired up the electrics permit.  Beyond that amodern DCC controlled loco will always tend to run better than an ancient, cheap straight DC loco.  Stock always tries to follow the loco... except when being pushed when good track laying and principles about curves come into the equation.  there are also matters of wheel standards and keeping wheels clean... you can't find out about these things overnight - you need to do lots of reading and be patient. Model RR are not like radio controlled models... they take time... but if you get into them you won't be bored by next year.

1) Purchase some basic, inexpensive rolling stock and an engine to "see" how it would run along various track configurations?  Always buy the best you can afford with a view to upgrading... but the important thing is to set yourself a minimum standard. 

How will it run?  Depends on how well you lay the track... straight and level for a start... without kinks.

What do you mean by "various configurations"? This sounds like you are planning a spaghetti bowl of track???

If you are looking to experiment the first thing to work on is to lay track nice and flat with smooth transitions into curves... both sideways curves and vertical curves.  Getting that right is essential to enjoying the hobby.  It doesn't take a great lot of effort but it beats slapping track down and expecting perfect running.

2) Stick with "general recommendations" (whatever those are).  Read, read, read.  This is not like just reading a car manual and fixing it to chug from A to B.  It's more like making hotrods your hobby - there are millions of details to consider... but that shouldn't put you off... we all start with no knowledge and buld steadily from there.  An overnight easy hobby is a next day bored hobby... if it suites you model RR will last you a lifetime.

I've heard that adding an extra 6" to a foot (beyond the 4 X 8) makes a pretty big difference.  Comments?

It could add 1/16 or 1/8 the area of the baseboard to the area of your layout... 4x8 is still rubbish.

You need to do lots of research/reading/looking at pics... then you will be able to ask far better focussed questions.  They will get you far better/more useful answers.

[markpierce]

Consider your first layout a "throw-away" practice layout.  Be sure the track curves and turnouts are broad enough to operate the equipment you intend to run.  Odds are a published plan will be better than your own, but I'd aim for simplicity over complication.  I wouldn't do a 4-by-8, but if it will fit your curves and turnouts, why not.  You are eventually going to throw it away.   Count on a maximum reach of 3 feet, so 4-foot wide tables against the wall will creat access problems.

In the long run, you'd be better off spending a good deal of money on magazines and books about model and real trains versus spending all your money on trains themselves.

Mark

[markpierce]

You might find this "story" of a modeler railroader's "evolution" informative.

http://s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/MyLayouts.htm

 

[TMarsh]

All very good advice. Keep in mind though, many people will give you advice that is fit for them as they have experienced. Myself included. This is not bad at all if you keep in mind that it is based on their experiences again, based on their wants, needs and desires. Read them all and apply what you want, the way you want your railroad to end up.

Some like me have an idea what we want but can't design a decent plan if my life depended on it. What I can do is take a plan and modify it. You may want to do that. In my opinion, that is wahat I'd do and that is what I did.

Do not start out big. Yo may get overwhelmed or lose interest because there is too much that doesn't come out the way you want. And it won't, usually, until you get some experience. Start out smaller and get some knowledge built up and some practice on modeling. If you've built model cars and/or planes you haven't built an entire world that functions. That is what you are preparing to do.   

This is a great place to start. Folks here love to help others get started and help them along and see how the skills improve. Also, I don't know this guy, but, he has an excellent website that I would recommend at least checking out before you begin. He has some excellent advice. http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html

Good luck and welcome to the forum and the world of Model Railroading. You won't regret it.

[ARTHILL]

What is the space availible?

How daring are you?

What do you want when you are done?

I would then find a plan that fills the whole space and is what I want and then build a little piece of it. As other have said, you WILL change you mind as you go, but if you always build what you want, the odds of it being useful latter are greater.

 

[Kegisl]

I assume you are planning on building a HO layout, an if so would recommend you try & get hold of a book by Linn Wescott called "HO Railroad that grows"

This was a great help to me when I built my 1st layout as it shows you how to start with a simple layout on a 4 x 8ft baseboard & from there gradually build hills, bridges, how & where to electrify the track, and all in simple & easily understandable language.

[shayfan84325]

BC Don

  As a newby, with respect to starting, which would you recommend:

1) Find an existing Plan, including landscape ideas and try to build that.

I strongly urge going with an existing track plan.  You'll probably make adjustments and refinements along the way and that will make it "yours."

 As you look at plans, read about how they were designed to operate and think about how that appeals to you.  Also, I suggest starting small, allowing room for expansion if you want to at some point in the future.  Even John Allen - the grand poobah of model railroading - included his first layout as part of his grand masterpiece - The Gorre and Daphetid Railroad.  It's easy to become overwhelmed and/or create a plan that exceeds your financial resources; this can be frustrating and the idea is to have fun.

 

2) Create my own plan and start adding in modeling details as I go.

3) Create some scenery (mountains, plains, cliffs, etc.) as small independent trials which I create and then toss away just to figure out how to do it.

I recommend just going for it on your layout, then revise are you learn.

4) Start out with a 4 X 8 layout.

5) Start with a larger layout (corner, 4' deep, 8' along each wall).

And as far as getting used to "how" trains will run should I:

1) Purchase some basic, inexpensive rolling stock and an engine to "see" how it would run along various track configurations?

I recommend buying a few good quality pieces.  Buying cheap will be a frustration.  If you browse the forums you'll get an idea of the brands that folks like best, and those they are frustrated with.

2) Stick with "general recommendations" (whatever those are).

I just have a few recommendations:

Keep your curves as broad as possible - in HO, no tighter than 20" radius and try to keep them broader than that.

Take your time with track work.  I spend about an hour to lay 3 feet of flex track, on average.  It may seem like a lot of time, but it has been over 5 years since I had a train derail. Remember about having fun - derailments are not fun.

It isn't a race - I spent an entire winter building one bridge - the idea is to do what you enjoy at a pace you enjoy.  You can do this hobby your whole life, so take your time and do it well  --  And have fun.

I've heard that adding an extra 6" to a foot (beyond the 4 X 8) makes a pretty big difference.  Comments?

 

 

[Left Coast Rail]

As for the purchases. my advise is to keep your wallet in your pocket and your mind and ears open until you really know what you want to do. If you are in an area that has one or more club layouts, go out and talk to the members when their layouts are open to the public. Find out when they are doing operations and see if you can come by and observe.

[dstarr]

1.  It's always worth while to look at plans for railtoads.  If you find one you absolutely love, by all means go ahead and build it.  You will see some features you like incorporate them in your layout.  Look at the sharpness of the curves.  Although the minumum radius of 18 inches (HO) works, big steamers and full length passenger cars require broader curves.  If you can be happy running 40 foot freight cars and 4 axle diesels, you can do minimum radius, but if you have an urge to run a Big Boy, you have to have broader curves.

The layout builder's bible:  "Track Planning for Realistic Operation": by John Armstrong.  Every layout builder should read it.

3.  If you have doubts about your  scenery building skills, building a trial version off the layout isn't a bad idea.  If it doesn't come out right, you haven't messed up the layout.  Or, build the trial version on a piece of plywood.  If it works out, mount it on the layout, if it doesn't, try again.  

4.  The 4*8 makes the least demands upon your carpentry skills.  It's as easy as it gets carpentry wise.  However a 'round the walls" layout will get more railroad into a given space.  If your carpentry skills are good consider starting with a round the walls plan.  Don't bite off more than you can chew.  Better to get a small railroad running than run out of energy and abandon a bigger one.  

5.  Rolling stock from any of the regular makers runs fine on any track(assuming the curves are broad enough). Many people start with a train and some snap track and do some carpet running just for the fun of it.  If the fun is there, proceed to build a real layout.  A good train would be a four axles roadswitcher and some 40 foot freight cars.  If you want practice delayed gratification, get some track down before buying rolling stock.  

[selector]

There are few shortcuts in this hobby, but many errors to be had.  Almost nobody gets out of their first layout unscathed.  So, I would echo being patient and careful...which you seem to have in the way of orientation with the nature of your questions.  You have gotten to first base!

Many of us start with a 4X8, and a good many of us soon place it behind us...a good learning experience, even necessary for many of us.  But it is almost certainly to be a basic first attempt.  From there, hopefully your tastes and skills will be more refined and more productive in a second layout. 

About the best advice I can give you is to settle on a plan you like...something that seems to get under your skin.  Doodle out a few, study some others, and don't be afraid to settle on either one..always your choice.  Build it, learn as quickly as you can, and try to keep a lid on the early spending so that you have more left over for the 'better' effort that is sure to come.  Included in this efficiency will be a more focused layout with the commensurate focused purchases, and not many varied and ultimately unrelated purchases...such as where I am at the moment.  I like steam engines, and I have a smattering from about six different railroads...I can't seem to settle on any one of them and build a representative 'model' railroad with the fidelity in topography and scenery, and structures.  But, I am ready to progress now, and will soon be dismantling my second layout.

No shortcuts....

-Crandell

[Dave-the-Train]

Just stumbled on this and glanced at it - http://www.building-your-model-railroad.com/index.html

You might find it useful...

[alco_fan]

Definitely get one of the current soup to nuts starter books from Kalmbach. Even if you don't build that plan (4X8? meh), you'll see how to do everything else.

[IVRW]

BC Don

  As a newby, with respect to starting, which would you recommend:

1) Find an existing Plan, including landscape ideas and try to build that.

2) Create my own plan and start adding in modeling details as I go.

3) Create some scenery (mountains, plains, cliffs, etc.) as small independent trials which I create and then toss away just to figure out how to do it.

4) Start out with a 4 X 8 layout.

5) Start with a larger layout (corner, 4' deep, 8' along each wall).

And as far as getting used to "how" trains will run should I:

1) Purchase some basic, inexpensive rolling stock and an engine to "see" how it would run along various track configurations?

2) Stick with "general recommendations" (whatever those are).

I've heard that adding an extra 6" to a foot (beyond the 4 X 8) makes a pretty big difference.  Comments?

 

1) Do whatever you want on this. If nothing suits your taste, wing it. Fly to your own solution. If you have found the perfect plan, there is no reason to ignore it.

2) Its still pretty good to say "A mountain will go here" or something like that when planning your own plan. Plan ahead, but still make it unique.

3) Get involved in a local Model Railroad club, find their standards, and build your small things as practice. This way, when youre done, you dont have to throw them away, as they are still functional.

4) If you want. There is no rule that says you have to.

5) Slightly more space economic, yet slightly harder to build. Unless you know how to build benchwork on a wall, then I wouldnt do this.

1) NO BASIC! Buy models that are just good enough. Low Quality is a NO NO! You will spend more money replacing parts and paying the trash service to take the models away than with better models.

2.5) Its an idea, as long as you want to do it.

[fwright]

 The questions can only be answered properly by you.  But whether you select a layout plan or plan your own, deciding a few things in advance will help the layout's longevity.

• do you have the time, money, and motivation to build more than a 4x8 from the very start?  A 4x8 in HO is going to cost $700-$1600 total if you don't have anything to begin with.  Now, that cost can be spread over several years, depending on how much you are willing to trade time for $$.  I've spent 6 years with the same 4x6 layout because I used kits and handlaid track to decrease my hobby cost per hour.  OTOH, if you buy all RTR and ready-built buildings, you can "finish" a 4x8 in a few months, but your total costs will be towards the high end.
• will you be happy with the limitations on locomotives and rolling stock that come with using 18" radius curves?  If not, you will not happy in the long run with a 4x8 - you need more of a doughnut configuration that allows larger radius curves.
• are the walls usable to mount portions of the layout on?  When you are renting, many landlords object to the number of holes required to mount shelf layouts.  Or there may too many windows, doors, and other obstacles to easily do an around-the-walls layout.  Otherwise, a shelf layout has many benefits.
  
• What is your preferred operations style (if you think you know)?  Do you prefer to be a spectator, watching a train run through a scene?  Or do you prefer to be the engineer of a way freight, switching cars here and there?  Or do you prefer to juggle several trains while trying to keep to a timetable?  Will you normally have more than one operator?  More than one train running at a time?
• Do you prefer to experiment with different techniques and materials for building things?  Or do you prefer to buy the latest and greatest from the hobby shop?
• Do you plan on moving the layout when you move?  Or tearing it down and starting over?

A 4x8 comes with many inherent limitations, which is why it is often recommended against.  But if you can live within those limitations, the 4x8 can be a fine layout and a relatively quick and inexpensive way to get started in the hobby.  The more the limitations bother you, the quicker you will "outgrow" your 4x8.

As soon as you go bigger than 4x8, your benchwork and layout costs will increase, and take more time to build.  But you gain a lot more flexibility in minimum radius, equipment that can operate on the layout, train length, scenic treatments and themes, operating capability, and so on.

Model railroading is full of trade-offs.  At the same time, it is a very personal hobby - no 2 model railroaders have exactly the same vision.  The better you understand and pursue your own vision, the more likely you are to be satisfied with your layout.

Using myself as an example, I have a space measuring 7.4 ft by 10ft.  One side is open, and one adjacent side has a 60 inch wide window that must normally not be blocked.  I can put in a 4x7.4 ft island with an extension on the walls that curls into a 10ftx16in shelf.  This assumes I can live with a 2ft wide aisle separating the the shelf and the island.  Or I can put in a doughnut shape with a lift-out across the window and a duckunder or liftout from the open side to access the center pit. 

Since I am modeling 1900 with small engines and short cars, 18" radius is just fine for me.  Desired train length would be 6ft, but I can live with 4ft.  Operating preference is walk-around control with switching, and occasional spectating.  A continuous run is highly desirable for both spectating and testing kit-built and bashed locomotives.  Single operator, single train, sequence operations would be the norm.  Money is pretty tight, but I'm likely to live here another 8 years, with the space described being all that is available.  I'd like to have the layout pretty well finished in the 8 year window.  I don't need to move the layout.

The result of these "Givens and Druthers" is that in my case, the 2 configurations appear equally desirable.  I will have to do a mockup to see which is the greater (possibly unlivable) drawback for me - the 24" wide aisle or the duckunder/liftout.

Upgrading inexpensive rolling stock and locomotives is no cheaper in the long run, but it does consume more time (reducing cost per hour), and teaches one modeling skills.  That's why it is my preferred methodology.  Others may and do differ - and that's OK.

Being able to narrow your modeling focus to a specific prototype, era, and/or region can also help reduce expenses by eliminating (or at least reducing) temptation at the LHS.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

Chief Engineer, Wiper, Bottle Washer, and Jack of All Trades for

Picture Gorge & Western Railway - none more picturesque!

Port Orford & Elk River Railway & Navigation Co - Home of the Tall Cedars

....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....

 

[trains1]

 Here's what I did 10 years ago when I got back into the hobby ten years ago; I had a layout as a teenager some 40 years earlier.  I went to the local hobby shop, by the way a very good one well known in the area, and talked to one of the hobbyist(?) that worked there. 

 I left with a couple of books of layout plans and a whole bunch of other ideas put in my head by the hobby shop guy.  Ideas such as the era I wanted to model, the railroad I was interested In (not that important as I realized later) and how much space I was interested in using.  I went through the layout books and picked out what I liked about each one, such as flat or hilly (my preference), and what I didn't like, such as turntables.  I ended up with a transition era layout, but with no steam; I'm just a diesel fan.

The initial layout was  4' by 17' and based on the Pennsylvania RR because the hobby shop had a PRR diesel and no NYC's.  I'm originally from the NYC area so I thought the NYC would be the way to go; five years after I started I'm glad I went with the Pennsy since I've become a fan of their electrics, both GG-1'sand MP-54's.  I've expanded the original layout seven times and am now about to double it in size.

 Ten years ago when I got restarted in the hobby, I would never have imagined I would be where I am today; but here I am and loving every minute of it!  Most of what I've learned has been from trial and error (heavy on the error) but its all been a blast.

As I have read in this forum, and totally agree with, if you ask railroaders what they enjoy, you will get many different answers, even from the same person.  This is just my two cents, but I totally enjoy what I'm doing.

Steve

[cthse]

You aren't going to build your dream layout in one try.  You will happy with your first layout, but you will find ways to improve, modeling interests may change, etc...

With that said, I'd find a published plan that isn't too complicated, but not just a basic oval with a siding.  Something that isn't too complicated to operate, but still holds an interest.  You can alway add on to the original plan (more industries, sidings, etc...)  A plan with sidings means you get to build structure kits (factories, grain elevators.)

A 4X8 is a good starting point.  You can get your feet wet in building benchwork, but not overwhelmed.  There are many plans to fit that space as well.

Track:  I would strongly recommend starting with Kato Unitrac or other similar sectional track.  It makes it very possible to get reliable trackwork right off the bat.  However, if you have to have ballasted track, use a combination of flex and sectional.  Use sectional track for your curves (to get smooth, even curves) and flex track for everything else (to get use to cutting and laying it.)  As you get more smooth with laying flex track, then you can start using it in more places.

As for rolling stock, that's up to you and your wallet.  Athearn RTR, Accurail and Bowser are some of the brands that make good rolling stock, but it's not upper-level price.  These kits and ready to run cars don't have every detail on them, but they're still nice cars.  And they run well over the rails.  As for engines, I personally would recommend something like a 4-axle ready to run Geep from Athearn RTR line.  You can get a good one for under $100.  For the record, I have a number of these engines with extra details added to them, I equipped them with digital decoders, and darn it they run just as good as my expensive sound-equipped engines!  And look just as good as well!

My father in law tried to get started in the hobby, but wanted that 'perfect layout' right away.  Spent tons of money on flex track and fine-scale turnouts, expensive cars and a high-end engine, all going by a complicated switching plan.  I tried to persuade him to go a more simplified route, but he wouldn't listen. 

He got frustrated and quit.

[HHPATH56]

You have already gotten a lot of good advice. Most of us assume that you are considering an HO layout. If space is limited, you could go for N scale. There are now a great deal of N scale structures, locos, and rolling stock available at a moderate price. Find out from your Local Hobby Shop, what Train Shows and Flea Markets,( dealing with model railroads), are within driving distance. I just purchased a $260 HO loco with installed DCC and sound, for $80, at a model railroad Flea market show. I highly recommend that you go with DCC from the beginning, (and if financially feasible, go for radio control). I have been a model railroader since I was 12 years old. I am now 83! Having built four previous layouts, I knew exactly what I wanted when I "pre-planned" my 24' x 24' around the room garage loft layout. Over the past ten years I have constructed this vast layout in four stages. (with dead turnouts placed as needed for future expansion). You should start with a small layout, but one that is expandable, (without having to rip up the existing track). A maximum reach is 27 to 30inches. I have pull-out drawers and lift outs, to provide access to unreachable areas. Keep these to a minimum! If you plan to have tunnels, build them with Styrofoam. The following picture shows a lift-out hill, with a hidden track ramp between it and the rest of the fixed mountain, behind. For backdrop scenery around the four wall, I use SceniKing photo panorama, which comes in sequential 7" x 11" sections with fairly uniform sky blue at the top. I matched the blue at the paint store and painted the backdrop,(all the way to the ceiling) with this blue. You may wish to add a 24 inch high divider, to the center of your layout. By using differnt scenery on the two sides, it allows one to double the possible scenery, provides forced perspective, and eliminates the "unsightly visible loop of tracks". Each of us maodel railroaders have different preferences and goals. I happen to be a scenery buff, and completed my scenery, before running trains. Use cardboard templates of the dimensions of desired structures, road, rivers, etc. Draw the center line of proposed location of all tracks, (including future expansion tracks.) Cut out the layout for rivers and plan hills. Make any incline of track less than a 2% grade.

[brakeman618]

 So here's my input...

First: Equipment. Train shows are your friend. I found a used diesel locomotive (GP) for $20. My cars are Atlas (blue box which are not available via the website) and so I have kept costs down for myself that way. There is a hobby shop in Ogden Utah (Wonderful World of Trains) that has a ton of inexpensive rolling stock in a variety of gauges for good prices. If you aren't out west, there are plenty of other places that would be comparable. Electrical power comes for me via a DC controller ($35) and two wires hooked up to the track.

 I agree with previous posts as in start small. A 4 X 8 would be fine but keep in mind that you would need space around the table on at least two (preferably three) sides. I made the mistake of trying a 4 X 8 with only space on two sides and found myself crawling all over the place at odd angles and such. A shelf layout might be better for reaching and you could run it around the room if you wished. Check out one of the recent 2010 editions of MR for ideas on a shelf layout. If you wanted, you could try the Woodland Scenics Mod-U-Rail system and for each module it includes nearly everything that you need for scenery.

As far as throwaway goes, plan first, plan second, (similar to the rule of 'measure twice, cut once), and build to your heart's content. Scenery tends to be forgiving. If you don't like it, cover it up or cut it out and start over. In fact, for my shelf layout, I started with a scrap 2 X 5 piece of plywood, laid track, sprinkled scenery, and went from there. It's definitely throwaway because I went with stuff I already had (plywood, cork, train set track, etc).

Do some research first. Model Railroader magazine, how to books, and websites will all help. Don't be afraid to make mistakes either.

[STEELERSFAN]

Start with a 4x8 plan with some 22" minimum radius turns. This should be a "learner" layout. I recommend level trackwork but other than that have it with scenery (mountains, rivers, etc). There are several books that can guide your from start to finish. This will help you hone your skills, esp track laying. Tracklaying is the most importauchnt skill, because if your railroad doesn't run well, it won't be much fun.

I would buy quality locomotives and freight cars. Athearn engines and freight cars are a good place to start, esp used stuff from the LHS. New stuff is too expensive

One other item is a good power pack, probably an MRC controller. This will make all the difference when running engines.

Good luck!

[RRTrainman]

Many people here will have you shine away from a 4 x 8 layout.  Alot of them started with the 4 x 8 layout and don't truely state it.  I started with a 4 x 8 and now its the center piece of my layout.  Its a good way to learn what you can do first before going on to the bigger and better.  There are several books you can buy to see that you can do and there are many track plans books to look at first.  A plan is alot easier to follow when you get to the point of building.  Another helpful item is is a track planner.  Some of us use XtrakCAD for planning a layout and its free online.  It is very helpful because it help you in laying track, building placement, grades, and etc. I personnelly use it and help others with it.  My signature has picture of my 4 x 8 and web page to go to with its build up.

Truely a 4 x 8 is a great way to get started and to see how well your modeling technique will develop.

to the hobby and injoy it. Its fun and injoying to do this hobby.