Without intending to make this sound like an opinion on what a person feels they are or what someone else is, and after reading all the posts, I have come to this conclusion.
RTR's are pretty cut and dried. As are kitbuilding and kitbashing. But scratchbuilding. Now what constitutes scratchbuilding and at what point does it become kitbashing. Or does it as long as there is no kit involved.
OR, do we just want to let the sleeping dog lie.
EDIT: I am not refering to a person being a scratchbuilder or not, rather the specific project being a scratchbuilt project or ..... what if say one project involves ready made doors and windows and another uses strip styrene and hand makes the windows, doors, whatever. I myself am more curious than caring, though I guess I do or I wouldn't have asked, because quite frankly I agree with the majority who say it's all Model Railroading in one form or another and it's all for leisure and enjoyment to take the stress out of our lives with a hobby. A label is un necessary and is actually detrimental if applied to a person. IMHO.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
richg1998 I will try very hard not to make this very complicated. When I cannot find what I want, I scratch build it. When I find something RTR that I like, I buy it. I hope this is not to involved for some of you. I am not very good with words.Rich
I will try very hard not to make this very complicated.
When I cannot find what I want, I scratch build it. When I find something RTR that I like, I buy it.
I hope this is not to involved for some of you. I am not very good with words.
Rich
This post is perhaps the most correct description of what model railroading is all about from what I can tell. If it's what you need, and it's available RTR (like a MicroTrains Penn Central X78 boxcar, correct down to the last stencil), would you NOT buy it just so you can scratchbuild it out of styrene? Granted, a few may, but most won't.
I buy RTR cars/locos if they fit what I need. I always weather them slightly, and most locos also get some road-specific detailing (like cab signal boxes, additional paint, Trainphone antennas as appropriate), and any of my freight cars from the 1970s get ACI decals. But for the MOST part they're RTR.
When something is NOT available RTR (for example, the PCM PRR M1 4-8-2 announced in 2004 but never made), I don't sit paralyzed. I kitbash the 90% solution and move on.
Structures for me are the opposite... I always go for the kit first. Only if a badly needed structure is available only as RTR and NOT in kit form do I bite the bullet and buy an RTR structure. This is because I paint every structure that ends up on my layout, and it's MUCH easier to paint a kit before it's assembled.
Lastly, when something is either completely unavailable or unobtainable either through kitbash or through extreme cost, or is simple enough that it would be a waste to buy, I scratchbuild. Sometimes, too, I know I can scratchbuild something better than what's available commercially for a specific application, so I go that route. But not often.
How would you label me, since so many seem intent on labels?
I humbly submit that most model railroaders, consciously or not, subscribe to a similar set of guidelines, though their thresholds may vary from mine.
In other words, labels are pointless, as Dave B pointed out earlier. Model railroading, to me, is about how all of those elements come together.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave VollmerHow would you label me, since so many seem intent on labels?
A Model Railroader like most everyone else. (and a darn good one I might add).
I also identify with your direction when it comes to structures. I have yet to purchase a prebuilt, but that is not to say I won't ever. I build mainly kits, not for really any other reason than I enjoy building models. Has nothing to do with they way I feel it should or should not be done. And I have scratchbuilt several structures because they aren't available (such as a Whataburger or the Post Ofice at Luckenbach) or a structure existed but not to my liking (such as a barn and a warehouse) and it seemed easier and far less expensive just to scratch build it than to bash it from two or more kits. They are far from perfect, and I do mean far, and wouldn't hold a candle to what I see some of you guys put out, but I'm learning and as I get better, I can always make another and replace them if I choose.
When it comes to rolling stock I try to choose kits, but RTR is chosen just as much. Just depends on what's staring me in the face.
Loco's RTR.
But that is all MY choice at this point and at my experience level. Everyone is different and in no way do I think my, or anyone elses for that matter, approach is the right way. Shoot, put 100 Modeler's in a room and ask them which glue is the best all around brand and type of glue for styrene and see how many different "bests" you get. If you can't get all to agree to that, how can they agree on the topic?
Depends, Dave, on what kind of side effects you can cause. If you can cause drowsiness, thoughts of suicide, oily discharge, ringing in the ears, nausea, vomiting, headaches, irritability and stroke, we gotta go with the the full FDA warning.
Otherwise, we don't need no stinking labels.
Andre
jwhittenPASMITHIt's great to see this thread has already reached 5 pages. Peter Smith, Memphis That's a nice model Peter, how long have you been working on it?john
PASMITHIt's great to see this thread has already reached 5 pages. Peter Smith, Memphis
That's a nice model Peter, how long have you been working on it?
john
andrechapelon How would you label me, since so many seem intent on labels? Depends, Dave, on what kind of side effects you can cause. If you can cause drowsiness, thoughts of suicide, oily discharge, ringing in the ears, nausea, vomiting, headaches, irritability and stroke, we gotta go with the the full FDA warning. Otherwise, we don't need no stinking labels. Andre
I always thought that labels were just a convenient way to work around certain modes of "production" as it were. For example, I "scratchbuilt" a whole pile of elevators. I bought a "ready to run" locomotive. I had to "kitbash" this warehouse to fit this space.
Not labels on a specimen jar.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
PASMITH
That's really slick. Do you have photos of more someplace? Or your layout I could go see?
John
For me, a scratch built model starts with nothing, but plans (regardless of the source of the plans). Then the modeler acquires materials, parts, etc. and constructs it. Some of the parts may be pre-fabricated widows, trucks, detail parts, etc., but in my book the model is still scratch built.
RTR is exactly what it says: with no other work, it is ready to use.
As for me, I'm a craftsman kit addict. I love the way the manufacturer has done the tedious work of providing plans and figuring out reasonable assembly steps. I'm grateful that I don't have to spend hours searching for the right windows, doors, lumber, etc. I just open the box and start work. I recently built Campbell's Grandma's House and the kit cost about $60 on ebay. It contained about $10 worth of material, but it was the RIGHT material and I didn't have to figure out how to cut and assemble those 20 exterior wall sections (just doing it was tricky enough). I think of it as having paid $50 for someone else to do the part I don't enjoy - I'm good with that.
For me, I like being hands on with my models. I admire the modelers who look at a prototype and draw plans, buy parts, and piece together those special little components that are not available for purchase. I admire them like I admire vintage car restorers who track down a 1937 Ford wiper motor and won't settle for a '36 (even though it's the same as a '37). For me, it's just not that much fun to be so committed to detail - I build kits because I like to BUILD; I built a hotrod for the same reason (research just ain't my bag). In my hobbies I maximize the parts that are fun and minimize the parts that are less fun. My guess is that we are all like that; we do this for fun and do it in a way that gives us the MOST fun.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
shayfan84325 I recently built Campbell's Grandma's House and the kit cost about $60 on ebay. It contained about $10 worth of material,
I recently built Campbell's Grandma's House and the kit cost about $60 on ebay. It contained about $10 worth of material,
shayfan84325,
I bet you if you went out and bought all the materials you needed to build this model from scratch you would be pushing 60 bucks. I recently started scrathbuilding a train station in O scale, and I'm well over $100.00 in materials. I think you got a great deal at $60, always liked that kit. Got any pics?
Tom
I'm impressed with the amount of Monty Python fans out there!!!!!
DingySP I bet you if you went out and bought all the materials you needed to build this model from scratch you would be pushing 60 bucks. I recently started scrathbuilding a train station in O scale, and I'm well over $100.00 in materials. I think you got a great deal at $60, always liked that kit. Got any pics? Tom
Really giving it some thought, I think you're right about the cost of materials/parts. It has a gazillion windows (probably over $20) and just a roll of Campbell's shingles costs about $10 or so. Here's a pic from when I was just finishing it up:
PASmith, Thats a very nice locomotive model. But at the risk of being called a rivet counter and with all due respect, I have to ask"why didn't you change the roof on the cab?" BILL
rekleinPASmith, Thats a very nice locomotive model. But at the risk of being called a rivet counter and with all due respect, I have to ask"why didn't you change the roof on the cab?" BILL
Nice job non-the-less. If you hadn't thrown in the documentation I wouldn't have known any differnt.I see yer from Memphis,I spent Easter there with a college freind in 1963. It was a beautiful day,the magnolias were in bloom, and it was 80 deg by noon. Being young and from Montana,I was amazed. BILL