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New to this site..need info on Bowser 4-4-4-4 HO PRR Duplex..

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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, October 26, 2009 8:17 PM

  A friend of mine bought a Peterbuilt tractor and it had a large sleeper not a high top but a flat top. It was painted real close to DGLE almost black with just a hint of green. He was not into railroading and I showed him some pictures of GG1 and a couple E7 with the gold pinstripes. Two weeks later he showed up with the truck that had 5 gold pinstripes tapering from just behind the headlights that spread like the GG1 and E7. All the way to the back of the sleeper. He also had the roof painted a shiny red oxide that came down the sides about 3 inches. If he would have put a keystone on the side it would look typical Pennsy.

  Tragically about six weeks after he was involved in a serious wreck that left him disabled and the truck was a total loss. He or I never had a chance to get pictures of the truck. He still has the train trumpets that never got put on.

       Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by rjake4454 on Monday, October 26, 2009 8:55 PM

Flynn

Cuda,

I think Nicholas Smith Trains has a couple T1's left.  http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/category/183/833/STEAM-LOCOS/page2.html

As an aside, the T1 runs on an 18" curve but it's not pretty.

I actually checked Nicholas Smith in person about two months ago looking for some of those blue lines, the person I talked to there said the website was wrong, that they were all of out stock.

Of course, they have the MTH O gauge version in stock. I look at it up on their wall about once a weekBig Smile

 

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Posted by joseywales on Monday, October 26, 2009 10:42 PM

The thing is I'm not a big fan of green accept lime green on the early 70's mopars..The train should be here I hope by fri or sat?..It's comming from FL by USPS  first class priority medum weight mail..Hay Robert livinstion,Do you still have your Bowser duplex?..I like to see it.. Like to know what mods would work with mine..I know the guy told me it has one motor on it and it runs fine with it..Now If I remember some say I could install one bigger motor instead of having two motors? cant remember who said it..

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Posted by rjake4454 on Monday, October 26, 2009 10:57 PM

BLI should make a Paragon 2 brass hybrid T1 duplex. Mischief

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Posted by joseywales on Monday, October 26, 2009 11:13 PM

Thats why I wasnt to thrilled about the BLI being ABS plastic body..If I'm going to spend 256-349 it better be all diecast.

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Posted by rjake4454 on Monday, October 26, 2009 11:23 PM

joseywales

Thats why I wasnt to thrilled about the BLI being ABS plastic body..If I'm going to spend 256-349 it better be all diecast.

Yes, I would have to agree.

I'm also somewhat disappointed with slow speed performance on my Paragon T1, it used to be good at first, but now it only starts at speed 4 or 5 (set from 1-28 on my prodigy advanced controller). 

What impressed me about MTH's HO class j is infact the slow speed performance, it doesn't get any better than that. Its an all diecast engine with the best sound system available now in HO.

The QSI sound on my T1 are very nice, however the blue line version is cabable of going at far faster speeds than the Paragon, and the Blue Line also has a better chuff sound, when the engine goes faster, the chuff follows, as soon the throttle is turned back ever so slightly the chuff returns to normal. Paragon doesn't have this, and thats disappointing as well. 

Anyway, overall though the BLI T1 duplex is a great engine, half of it is metal, its very heavy and I love it.

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Posted by joseywales on Monday, October 26, 2009 11:39 PM

My proublem with the plastic body is light melting the plastic around them plus around the smoke unit too..Had a rossi big boy and the smoke unit melted the stack into an oval shape..I was raised around loinel trains from my grandpa..Boy if he was still alive he would drop with the new tech on the smoke and sound system in these trains today..I had MTH trains before.. like them better then lionals trains..What sound system is in the BLI duplex? I'm going to call QSI on the price on a DCC sound system..see if they make a small version setup for HO ..have the same sounds as MTH O version..

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Posted by selector on Monday, October 26, 2009 11:45 PM

rjake4454
...The QSI sound on my T1 are very nice, however the blue line version is cabable of going at far faster speeds than the Paragon, and the Blue Line also has a better chuff sound, when the engine goes faster, the chuff follows, as soon the throttle is turned back ever so slightly the chuff returns to normal. Paragon doesn't have this, and thats disappointing as well.... 

My Paragon Duplex has the upgraded QSI chip, and it most definitely goes into drift sounds when I back off on the throttle.  Also, with the Sound of Power and Regulated Throttle, you should get the chuff barking out when you apply throttle.  Mine does.

-Crandell

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Posted by rjake4454 on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:05 AM

joseywales

My proublem with the plastic body is light melting the plastic around them plus around the smoke unit too..Had a rossi big boy and the smoke unit melted the stack into an oval shape..I was raised around loinel trains from my grandpa..Boy if he was still alive he would drop with the new tech on the smoke and sound system in these trains today..I had MTH trains before.. like them better then lionals trains..What sound system is in the BLI duplex? I'm going to call QSI on the price on a DCC sound system..see if they make a small version setup for HO ..have the same sounds as MTH O version..

The paragon t1 has the QSI system whereas the blue line t1 has Broadways own sound system.

Here is a video of the paragon prr J1 2-10-4 with QSI sound. The paragon T1 sounds exactly the same as this video. (Personally, if you ask me, I think the QSI system on the Paragon wins hands down.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwXyLNw5qzQ

Here is a video of the Blue Line T1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpC0bcttbgc

And here is MTH's O gauge T1 (with protosound2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdgRHPPhEhc&feature=PlayList&p=B9F7E316CB9DE228&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30

 

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Posted by rjake4454 on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:13 AM

Almost forgot, as I said, in my opinion, the QSI sound system really captures the authentic sounds of these duplex engines, not matter what the scale.

Here is a video of a 3rd rail brass T1 duplex for O gauge. You are hearing QSI at its best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6JLcawmpG0

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Posted by joseywales on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:04 PM

Ya Love the QSI sound systems in the other trains...A friend who has a hobby shop in stmarys told me that Charlie bowser was a big PRR fan...Hay I found this one..A guy built one out of lego's..took him amost a year to build it...Dont know if any of you seen this..He even artticulated it too! I got the stuff to paint the duplex when it comes this week.." mce_src="">" mce_src="">

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Posted by joseywales on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:14 AM

Ok enought with side tracks.. Ok the train I got is the newer version a #529kit..has the super brass detial kit with it..Robert livingston if you got pics of you Bowser duplex feel free to post them please...or any of you other guys too...I want to make this train awsom...been wanting one since 89...never had the time or money..wanted the lional version when it first came out in 89 big scale.but never had the money to get one..

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Posted by Robt. Livingston on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:41 PM

Here's mine in its glorious natural metal finish.  I bought the boiler for $20 at English's in PA, where the Bowser stuff is made.  I got there on practically the same day that they announced  they were shutting down production of all their steam kits, as well as spare parts.  For some reason, this one has no pre-drilled holes for the handrail stanchions, which I will put there, in time.  The old, heavier, lead-alloy  boiler served for several years, but the detail was vague (at best). 

Closeup of the stack, milled out and filed to shape, with a hand formed copper liner:

View of the underframe, showing the single-piece axle retainer I milled out of .030" brass sheet, to rigidize the chassis into one long unit, like the real ones.  The two motors are decoupled, so they can slip independently.  I found that the engine runs more smoothly with the motors running independently, and with the boiler mounts no longer articulated:

 


 

 

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Posted by joseywales on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:16 PM

So the motor/chassie artticuate from the factory? By putting that flat plate on the bottom help the driver wheels then? You done the ridget frame like it shouldve been done in the first place,like the real one is done..

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Posted by Robt. Livingston on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:42 PM

The original Bowser design has each motor and two-axle subframe separate from each other, except the motor shafts are joined by a flexible tube.  This is possible because the front motor points toward the rear motor (front motor is arranged magnet first, rear motor is arranged shaft-end first).  

The two subframes carry the boiler on brackets above the motors, secured by two 2-56 flat head screws, the heads of which are visible on top of the locomotive boiler.  The draw bar is secured to the cab floor, so the entire pull-load of the train is carried by the top-mount brackets.  It seemed to be a goofy arrangement to me, as the drawbar pulled the boiler into a lean when pulling on a curve, and the front subframe lifted the front set of drivers off the rail when pulling on a curve or straight.   

All this was easy to fix with the two subframes joined by the new plate underneath, and the flexible coupling between the motors discarded.  I don't know what the minimum radius is, as I have broad curves on my layout.  The first photo was taken on the tightest mainline radius.   

 

 

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Posted by joseywales on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:30 PM

From all the specks on this Duplex and BLI Duplex,both have a 22"minum raidous...

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Posted by joseywales on Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:17 PM

yaaa its here!! Just got it today!!!  Rober,I can see why you made a plate on the bottom of those drivers...Man they couldve done a better  setup then this..Rober if the dont mind?Could you put the specks/measurment on that plat if you dont mine..I want to do that too.I'll try to post pics somtime tonight if possible,if not tomarrow for sure..

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Posted by NSdreamer on Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:00 PM

Only know that they were manufactured in PRR's Juniata Shops, Altoona, near the horseshoe curve.

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Posted by joseywales on Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:36 PM

hers acouple of pics of it.." mce_src="">" mce_src="">

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Posted by Robt. Livingston on Friday, October 30, 2009 7:42 AM

Nice looking thing, isn't it?  The body shape looks closer to reality than the BLI effort, in form and contour, in my opinion.

I don't recommend full rigidizing unless the curves on your railroad are much broader  than 22" radius.  I'm guessing 36"R as a minimum for a rigid chassis. 

    

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Posted by joseywales on Friday, October 30, 2009 3:08 PM

Robert I have an idea?? thought about last night.. I would improve your idea on the platting the bottom of those drivers soild...I could have it pin in the center/between the drivers..If I do that it can still have a semi articate and the drivers wont flop around like it was from factory..Another question..where can I find those up to date motors at? Bowser wants 45 dollars each for the brushless motors..,there can motors too as what I'd read..wondering if I could find them cleap in price some were else?Oh what glue did you used to put the brass parts on with?

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Posted by Robt. Livingston on Friday, October 30, 2009 4:07 PM

 You could try articulating the subframes to each other, or leave the front one loose and make the rear one solid with the boiler casting.  The biggest problem was (I thought) that the point of attachment to the boiler is up so high.  On real railroad equipment, it is low, just above the wheels, so the trucks can rock under the body.  But, other guys have had success with the Bowser Duplex running as-is, in stock form, so I suggest you try to tune it up that way first, before you go modifying things. 

 

As for motors, why replace them?   Yours has two that run OK, no?  

Bowser sells a can motor for a switcher that costs about $8.00.  Are two of these enough power for a Duplex?  I don't know, but the price is right.  It is a Mabuchi FK-130 motor, noted for high torque and power, at low cost. Unfortunately the shaft is undersized for the gears in rhe Duplex. 

I glued the brass detail parts on with Goop, also known a Shoo Goo.  It is about the same as Walthers Goo, but is clear, and you can buy it at most hardware or big box builder's supply stores. 

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Friday, October 30, 2009 4:47 PM

joseywales
Another question..where can I find those up to date motors at? Bowser wants 45 dollars each for the brushless motors..,there can motors too as what I'd read..wondering if I could find them cleap in price some were else?Oh what glue did you used to put the brass parts on with?

Bowser used to have a deal where if you sent them your old motors, they'd send you the new ones for $15 each. I don't see it anymore, but I guess contacting them about it wouldn't hurt. If it's just the DCC isolation you're looking for, they sell insulated fiber brush plates (#22193) for about $1.50 each. Performance of the old and new motors isn't a whole lot different when they're tuned right, but the new ones do use a little less current to run.

And then there's the over-priced dual remotor kit from Accurate Lighting. It uses Mabuchi motors similar to the FK-130SH, so your 4-4-4-4 would run quietly and smoothly without drawing much power.

As for glue, I just used liquid super-glue for my T-1. It seems to be holding together real well so far.Big Smile

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Friday, October 30, 2009 4:52 PM

Robt. Livingston
Bowser sells a can motor for a switcher that costs about $8.00.  Are two of these enough power for a Duplex?  I don't know, but the price is right.  It is a Mabuchi FK-130 motor, noted for high torque and power, at low cost. Unfortunately the shaft is undersized for the gears in rhe Duplex.

I have two of them powering a 2lb DD40X (the Bachmann unit I repowered with Athearn trucks a while back), and they hardly struggle when the wheels start slipping, so they should be enough for the T-1. The only real issue is the mounting of the motors and worms. Mounting brackets would have to be made, and special metal sleeving would have to be added to the shafts to get the worms on.

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by joseywales on Monday, November 2, 2009 8:45 AM

there not offering that motor exchange anymore..wished they would.. but they told me to by the plate and soilder a wire on the other brush..you see they only had one wire soildered one one brush..heres what they but up in there site..HO - Other Products
DCC Information

To isolate the motor brushes on an OLD Bowser DC-71 motor
(Old DC-71 had only one wire and half the brush plate is brass) 
a new brush plate (#22193) required to replace the brass plate on the motor.

All our kits using the DC-71 motor have the DCC compatable motor.  
Skew wound armature, straight polished shaft, new magnet material, double insulated brushes for easy DCC.
I like an O Scale DCC module for Bowser Steam Locos.  They will fit in the tenders.

I got the train 3/4 put together..got to finish the hand rails and acouple of puttly things and she together..Robert I saw a brass tender version of this kit.. this that a newr kit of older?? mine is a 1998 kit..

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Posted by joseywales on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 4:42 PM

Robert ,I'd looked at two T1 Ho trains.. Both are riget frames..You are wright to set yours like you have it...I'd save some pics of a brass version that is a fixed frame setup..

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Posted by markpierce on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:23 PM

joseywales

hers acouple of pics of it..  " mce_src=" ">  " mce_src=" ">

So, this Bowser is an articulated model of a non-articulated prototype?  Thank goodness at least the engine frame seems solid.

Mark

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Posted by joseywales on Sunday, November 8, 2009 10:05 PM

yes it's semi articuated...Just seen the older kit on ebay went for 265.00!!!!!..Man my girlfriend got a deal on my train !!..I'll be posting pics of this train shortly..got it all together..going to run up to date motor in it.." mce_src="">

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Posted by cjcrescent on Monday, November 9, 2009 1:13 AM

markpierce

So, this Bowser is an articulated model of a non-articulated prototype?  Thank goodness at least the engine frame seems solid.

Mark

 

Mark;

Yes, the frames are good and solid. Bowser made this kit a semi-articulated even though the prototype was rigid frame. This was done to allow the use of a tight minimum radius. A friend of mine had a brass model, (Westside?), of the, IIRC, Q4?. Anyway it was a PRR 4-4-6-4 duplex. It was rigid frame and needed a minimum radius of 38"! Beautiful locomotive none the less.


 

Carey

Keep it between the Rails

Alabama Central Homepage

Nara member #128

NMRA &SER Life member

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Posted by joseywales on Friday, November 13, 2009 1:23 PM

I'll be postic pics of my progress tonight..I have a coat of black to see what it looks like...where do one finds that brunswick green at?

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