Train Length: A New Rule Of Thumb?

[marknewton]

...But how can you determine in advance how long your trains ought to be?

Like Chuck, I model a Japanese prototype where short trains were the norm, so I've simply copied what they ran, working by observation and reference to photos and documents. Again, they were often made up of little four-wheelers, soemtimes no more than one or two vehicles swinging on the back of an interurban car.

But I think your concept is good for modelling a railroad that ran big trains. When I modelled a US railroad, I tended to run trains that were just a bit longer than the longest scene they'd run through, typically 18 to 20 cars. Like you I found that this gave the impression of a longer train, since it was never visible in it's entirety.

Cheers,

Mark.

[selector]

Several of us seem to be in agreement that there is little point to having trains much longer than the eye can take in as subtended by the arc of useful vision from any one vantage point, and this includes artefacts on the layout that might restrict that subtended angle of vision...such as the distance between to occluding hills or substantial structures, or even two tunnels.

[Flashwave]

My train length is limited by the tracks in my staging yard, which range from 15 to 19 cars.  Visually, I try to break up my scenery so you don't see the front and the back of the train at the same time, at least not often...

Looking at the train head on can give you a better illusion of a long train.  I shot this recently on my layout...

Same location, a few weeks ago.  The train is about 18 cars in each picture, but the number of diesels and the viewing angle trick the eye into thinking you've got 100 cars coming at you.  Your theory proves correct!

Lee 

I've got a way around that. Staging becomes shelves and a portable rerailer. Poof! endless track!

BTW, Awesome shots. Love the climb uphill.

The Naptown rule is the length of passing sidings. About 15 cars. I tend to follow the "what looks right length." The switching will also tend to hang around the 15 xcar  mark, but Dad and I both like the long unit drags. And for Half Moon, which sits on aain out of Chicago, long through trains may be norm. It comes down to what your modeling, and what space you have. Smaller room will make trains smaller, as will shortlines in the middle of knowwhere. If you've got a larger area and are modelling Big Boys/etc, ABBA sets, or modern Dash 9 pairs or trios that look out of place with a train that isn't as long as they are,

Also, this comes form the guy lookign forward to modelling a full length Circus Train. only 56 cars.

[toot toot]

near the end of its life (1949) the Virginia & Truckee was operating with train length running north out of Carson City of 6 cars: mixed loads and empties, freight and passenger.  They were running with 3 1905 era ten wheelers and a 1920s consolidation.  I'm sure that when they got to Reno they would meet an Espee cab forward AC.  my point is that what yer modeling is what determines appropriate and realistic train length

[jecorbett]

I have a fairly large layout which influences my perspective on this issue. I don't always look at my trains from the perpendicular. I like to see them coming and going so in these cases I can see the whole length of the train unless it is fairly long. My main yard was designed to hold about a 30+ car train (40 footers) on the arrival departure track. I rarely run them that long for several reasons. A train that length will dwarf the layout and reach from one town to the next which destroys any illusion of actually going somewhere. Derailments are also more frequent with the really long trains as it creates more stress on the curves. I find 20-25 car trains to be the optimum length in terms of operating reliability and also creating the sense of longer train that is actually going somewhere. 

[Anonymous]

By the way, Tony Koester discusses train length in the 2008 Model Railroad Planning.

The idea is that you need to determine train length first, and then plan your layout (and staging) accordingly.

<snip>

Exactly!

But how, in the first place, does one determine what the train length can practically be in a given room, and thus my proposal.

Craig

 

Well, I put up a loop of Kato Unitrack with 31 inch radius in my train room which takes about roughly 7 by something feet of space.. and found that my analog test unit would pull 19 boxcars and a caboose without overwhelming the loop.

I hate math but I think to recall that long of a train took about... 60% of the total loop. It has been a while since I ran it to remember precisely.

90 degrees of 31 inch curvature will hold approx 8 40 foot boxcars. So when you think in that way tis easier to reconcile train lengh versus space.

Dont be surprised when that ABBA shows up with one HD Flatcar with many axles and a caboose.

[fwright]

But how, in the first place, does one determine what the train length can practically be in a given room, and thus my proposal.

Craig

In addition to the maximum visual train length (how much can you see at the normal distance from the layout), I have a couple of other rules of thumb I use in layout design.

The first comes from Iain Rice in MRP 2003:  for a shelf layout, maximum train length should be between 1/4 and 1/3 the length of the shelf.

The next is mine based on observation of 4x8 and similar island style layouts - maximum train length on these layouts should be equal to or less than the distance between the turnback curves.  This length allows fitting of a train length passing siding on the sides, or on the ends, and prevents the train from being on both straight sides of the layout at the same time.

I use a similar rule for around-the-room-walls layout.  Maximum train length should be less than the distance between the corner curves on the short wall.  Anything more overwhelms the layout, IMHO.

just my thoughts

Fred W 

[Packers#1]

What holes? I don't see any holes. I don't know if it would work for N scale, but it sounds like a strategy to me.

[2-8-8-0]

A Norfolk Southern local trundles through town here every day. Most of the time, a high hood GP38 is the power, and its pulling 10-20 cars, usually some coil steel cars, pellet hoppers, and half a dozen 60 (sometimes 86') boxcars. The last few days its had a Dash 9 as the power (the usual Geep may be down for fixin')

A very interesting train in real life, and would look good on a layout. The same train with 3 Dash 9s as power and 2 pushers would look out of place. I model N scale steam, and a "huge coal drag" of 40-50 cars looks incredible...keep in mind, these are small 32 foot hoppers and N scale to boot, so the whole thing is only about 10 feet long. Match the train to the power and its surroundings. My coal drags have a mallet (2-8-8-2s atm, working on more prototypical ones) and another pushing, and looks good. The same engines working 15 boxcars would just look wrong.

[tomikawaTT]

A Norfolk Southern local trundles through town here every day. Most of the time, a high hood GP38 is the power, and its pulling 10-20 cars, usually some coil steel cars, pellet hoppers, and half a dozen 60 (sometimes 86') boxcars. The last few days its had a Dash 9 as the power (the usual Geep may be down for fixin')

A very interesting train in real life, and would look good on a layout. The same train with 3 Dash 9s as power and 2 pushers would look out of place. I model N scale steam, and a "huge coal drag" of 40-50 cars looks incredible...keep in mind, these are small 32 foot hoppers and N scale to boot, so the whole thing is only about 10 feet long. Match the train to the power and its surroundings. My coal drags have a mallet (2-8-8-2s atm, working on more prototypical ones) and another pushing, and looks good. The same engines working 15 boxcars would just look wrong.

But if you leave off the pusher it would look just like a prototype photo I've seen - a N&W Y, about a dozen miscellaneous cars and a caboose.

Toward the end of the steam era, N&W used Ys for EVERYTHING - even anemic little peddlers.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[jacon12]

I'm in a HO modular club and I'm one of 2 or 3 members that has a home layout also.  My room size is 15x21 feet.  After I figured how much space I needed for the guys coming over for meetings, running some operations etc., I came up with a layout that has about 85 feet of mainline.  Get ten fellas in a room that size and it tends to get crowded sometimes. 

In my yard the A/D track will hold about 9 cars, with caboose.  I don't have a staging yard/track.  Two of my passing sidings will easily hold an 8 car train, the third one is much shorter.  With a nine car train, I usually pull them with 4 axle diesels or smaller steam, like a consolidation.  Looks a lot better than pulling them with a couple of Dash 8's.  Operating sessions will usually run 45 minutes to an hour.  We've found that is about the right amount of time, not too short nor too long.

Now when I'm running by myself I do like to couple a Class A 2-6-6-4 to about  30 cars and let'um run.  When the club has it's layout set up, for shows etc. I almost always run the bigger diesels and steam power

Anyway, that's how I came up with layout size and configuration.

Jarrell