First thing in laying flex track is to make sure you are laying a reasonable curve, say 18" radius or better. In attempting to get the track to zig around the water heater or get a 180 degree curve into a small piece of bench work, you can wind up laying too sharp curves. You want to use a ruler, or a big home made compass, or just a pencil tied to a piece of string, to draw the center line of the curve, to be sure you aren't overdoing it and laying a 9" radius curve just to get the track plan into a tight space.
Then you can lay the track either piece by piece, or you can solder several sections together to make one big long piece and bend it carefully into shape. I've done both, and both work.
On curves, the inner rail travels a shorter distance than the outer rail, so you will have to snip it shorter. In fact, if you overdo the "solder up a long piece of track" thing and then bend it, you may find the track pulling out of gauge. To join flex track I snip off the last tie at the end of the piece so as to let the rail joiners slide under the rail. After you get the track nailed down, you can slip the loose ties but under the rail joint to improve the looks.
Don't over do the solder track together thing. Your benchwork is made of wood, which can expand and contract with humidity changes, especially when heating season starts. If all you track is soldered together the expansion and contraction of the benchwork will pull the track out of guage. Leave some track joins loose to allow some give and stretch to the track.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
What scale are you working in?
While the principles remain the same the radii of curves that are okay in H0 are very different from N.
What sort of curve(s) are you looking at using?
When setting outyou can draw out a centre line as described... or you can draw out the line of either rail (inside or outside) or the inside or outside ends of the ties. This can be a lot easier to work to. BUT you must recall which line it is
Obviously in an S curve the inside switches over.
The way to handle this (using inside lines) is to draw both inside and outside lines for the length of the short straight between the opposed curves. (You do want that short straight in there). Then mark the ends of the curve "<IL" and "IL>".
If you are working from one side all the time it may be easier to see the marked line at the end of the ties that is always nearer to you. If you are going round the walls this will be the side away from the wall. When you do this some of the curves will be inside and some outside... just mark the start and end of curves "IL>" and "<IL" or "OL>" and "<OL".
Remember, while you want to be able to see these marks clearly when tracklaying you don't want to have problems hiding or getting rid of them later.
The one thing that you can garuantee is that if you mark these points with sticky labels... they will come unstuck...
As to the OP... I have never soldered rail lengths together (in H0) (Or 0n2) which solves the problem instantly.
This is my method of laying curves using Atlas flex track. It works well for me, but may not meet the preferences of others.
I prepare one length at a time. starting by giving it a hard-curved set (bending it down to about 4" radius, fixed rail to the outside) so it will assume the desired curvature (24" or larger radius) without fasteners. I trim the ties for rail joiners, 'tweak' the curvature of the extreme ends of the rails and test-install. I do not trim the sliding rail to place rail joints opposite; rather, I make sure they are offset by several inches. The sliding rail from one length can be slid into the rail channel of the next, and only the two ties where the rail joint occurs need be trimmed to clear the joiner. My final prep is to dress every rail joint, removing all burrs (which can be found even on factory-cut rail) and carving a micro-bevel in the top inside corner of the railhead (to prevent flanges from picking the sharp corner at the joint if alignment is less than perfect.)
After prep, I test-lay the flex - one or several sections, using track nails to tack it to the cardstock-covered foam I use for roadbed. After test-running my designated derailment check train (which very seldom derails - attention to detail pays off!) I pull the track nails, move the pre-formed flex aside and spread grey latex caulk all the way across the track template from tie line to tie line. The flex goes into place, the track nails are replaced, I make a final alignment check, then weight the new work with whatever is handy (telephone books, cordless tools and their spare batteries, soda bottles, heavy angle iron, even a 16 inch length of 75# rail.)
I leave the weights in place for several hours, then remove them and re-test. Theoretically, the track nails could be removed and re-used. In practice, I don't bother.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I have a couple questions to add. Very dumb questions indeed.
1. How do you keep flextrack in place?
2. How exactly do you measure the radius?
MilwaukeeRoad wrote:I have a couple questions to add. Very dumb questions indeed.1. How do you keep flextrack in place?2. How exactly do you measure the radius?
There are no dumb questions.
1. With T pins or dressmaker's pins until the caulk sets. Weights might work too.
2. I made a set of radius templates out of masonite using a router. They are simple arcs of 100 or so degrees. You can do the same with stiff cardboard. Note: tempered masonite will dull your bits quickly so it's best to use carbide.
Pin down one end of a yardstick and mark by holding the pencil next to it while swinging the ruler around the pivot. Better yet, drill a hole in the ruler at the proper radius.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
larak wrote: MilwaukeeRoad wrote: I have a couple questions to add. Very dumb questions indeed.1. How do you keep flextrack in place?2. How exactly do you measure the radius?There are no dumb questions. 1. With T pins or dressmaker's pins until the caulk sets. Weights might work too.2. I made a set of radius templates out of masonite using a router. They are simple arcs of 100 or so degrees. You can do the same with stiff cardboard. Note: tempered masonite will dull your bits quickly so it's best to use carbide.Pin down one end of a yardstick and mark by holding the pencil next to it while swinging the ruler around the pivot. Better yet, drill a hole in the ruler at the proper radius. Karl
MilwaukeeRoad wrote: I have a couple questions to add. Very dumb questions indeed.1. How do you keep flextrack in place?2. How exactly do you measure the radius?
Don't forget ... you may want to decide whether your 3' radius is on the centre line or one of the other four positions I've listed. Obvious? Not important? Try making everything connect up when someone else has planned it all... without remaining constant
If you are 3' centre line the oputside rail will be 1/2 the gauge larger radius. If you want to mark inside your ties you need to deduct the distance from what you want to be 3' (maybe your outside rail) to the inside of your ties from the 3'. If you make templates write on them what they are when you make them "in clear"... don't try to recall (or expect anyone else to understand) what your abbreviation means
This applies even more when glueing track down rather than when pinning it.
Also forgot to mention... on a long curved length mark what the line is mid way as often as you need "<CL>", "<OR>" etc.
Holding down can be done with pins or with chunks of offcut metal where pins won't hold. If you can get it brass is good.
If you use a template that is strong enough it can be good to secure the template one side and pin or weight the track against it the other side.
Um... it does help to make sure that you don't glue weights or template solid to the track base.
Stupid questions? the one's that should have been asked but were't because of pride. Teaching anyone the obvious> Yeah? Like thosse of us that have been in the hobby haven't made the most basic mistakes... a second time
You really go nuts at yourself the third time
With a job like tracklaying there is often a long gap while a layout is finished so it is quite possible to make the mistakes all over again... one thing that doesn't help is getting into the first enthusiastic rush... and finding everything in a mess just after you finish the first session of new track laying.
Good guiding rule... take track laying slow and steady and keep checking.
Oh yes... if you have to leave some track pinned and/or weighted in place before fixing it always check that it is both where you left it and that that is the right place when you come back to it...
Have fun!
There is a tendency for the ends of flex track to be straight when the rest is curved. This is true whether you solder the ends or not. Sometimes you notice this only after the track is fully laid and you run a train through it, particularly passenger cars were you can really detect the variance in the curve.
My curves (HO) are 38" to 42" radius so perhaps this is not representative .... I try to solder the flex track together that will be on a curve, with special emphasis on the center of the curve. I do this soldering before the track is in place (as opposed to after the track is laid) so I am laying a 6' long piece (which is very awkward by the way). While I use the adhesive caulk method for laying flex track, at key locations and at the joint (whether soldered or not) I usually use a nail or two, or on some makes of track that have spike holes around the rails, I spike for a few inches. This is of course while the caulk is still wet and the track can be moved a little. In my experience 6' is the practical maximum for the adhesive caulk method of track laying to really work. In fact it is really a bit too long.
Also, and I find this to be crucial to maintaining a perfect curve through a soldered joint, I use the RibbonRail metal radius tools and run them over and over through the entire 6' length of track before hand, and then again and again while the caulk is curing. At the ends of my curves I have easement curves which are more or less built into my subroadbed.
I would encourage anyone facing the task of laying a great deal of flex track to invest in a set of the RibbonRail radius tools both curved and tangents. They fit between the rails and then you slide them along and they more or less force the flex track to the curve or tangent selected. But you have to do it over and over again, it is not a "one pass and you're done" thing. Having praised them this way I have to admit I take the listed radius on each tool with something of a grain of salt.
I should also mention that on my mainline curves I use PSC's track with the super-elevation built into the ties. It is a little awkward to lay using the caulk method because of the nub under one end of the ties but the visual benefits of super-elevation AND easement curves are hard to beat.
Dave Nelson
dknelson wrote: There is a tendency for the ends of flex track to be straight when the rest is curved. This is true whether you solder the ends or not. Sometimes you notice this only after the track is fully laid and you run a train through it, particularly passenger cars were you can really detect the variance in the curve..........Also, and I find this to be crucial to maintaining a perfect curve through a soldered joint, I use the RibbonRail metal radius tools and run them over and over through the entire 6' length of track before hand, and then again and again while the caulk is curing. At the ends of my curves I have easement curves which are more or less built into my subroadbed. I would encourage anyone facing the task of laying a great deal of flex track to invest in a set of the RibbonRail radius tools both curved and tangents. They fit between the rails and then you slide them along and they more or less force the flex track to the curve or tangent selected. But you have to do it over and over again, it is not a "one pass and you're done" thing. Having praised them this way I have to admit I take the listed radius on each tool with something of a grain of salt..... Dave Nelson
There is a tendency for the ends of flex track to be straight when the rest is curved. This is true whether you solder the ends or not. Sometimes you notice this only after the track is fully laid and you run a train through it, particularly passenger cars were you can really detect the variance in the curve.....
.....Also, and I find this to be crucial to maintaining a perfect curve through a soldered joint, I use the RibbonRail metal radius tools and run them over and over through the entire 6' length of track before hand, and then again and again while the caulk is curing. At the ends of my curves I have easement curves which are more or less built into my subroadbed.
I would encourage anyone facing the task of laying a great deal of flex track to invest in a set of the RibbonRail radius tools both curved and tangents. They fit between the rails and then you slide them along and they more or less force the flex track to the curve or tangent selected. But you have to do it over and over again, it is not a "one pass and you're done" thing. Having praised them this way I have to admit I take the listed radius on each tool with something of a grain of salt.....
The man knows whereof he speaks.
The bad part about using Atlas flex track (and other makes that "spring") is the springiness makes it very difficult to get a consistent curve at track joints. The good part about using springy flex track is that it makes it easy to get smooth curve transitions. A non-springy flex track will hold its curve once curved, and therefore does not have to have the joints on curves soldered to avoid kinks. In fact, I have laid Micro Engineering flex track through curves without rail joiners - I just used a couple of spikes on each side of the rail joint to hold the rail in place while the caulk (I now use) or white glue (used to use) set.
Even when you use a non-springy flex track like Micro Engineering, curving the last 1/2 inch to inch can be quite difficult. I use a plywood template (radius adjusted to the inside of the ties) to curve my ME flex track against, and then cut off the last part that didn't curve properly. I do the same with the next piece of flex, making for a smooth joint with a continuous curve. The Ribbon Rail radius tools would be a good subsititute for the plywood template.
To get smooth easements with ME track, I have a plywood template to curve the track against for that, too.
just my thoughts and experiences
Fred W
pcarrell wrote:I lay the first piece in place except for the last few inches (6 inches or so?), then solder the next piece on, then continue layout the curve out, repeating the process as I go.
Ditto
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
soumodeler wrote:When you are laying flextrack on curves, do you lay one piece at a time or solder two or more together and then lay it?
I know that you can get kinks in the rail if you do it piece by piece
it can make the inside rail slide a couple of inches father than the outside rail, causing you to cut away ties.
See Texas Zepher's post in this thread --> http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/778497/ShowPost.aspxhttp://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1036053/ShowPost.aspx
alsohttp://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/623162/ShowPost.aspxhttp://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/831778/ShowPost.aspx
dknelson wrote:I would encourage anyone facing the task of laying a great deal of flex track to invest in a set of the RibbonRail radius tools both curved and tangents. They fit between the rails and then you slide them along and they more or less force the flex track to the curve or tangent selected.
Virginian wrote:I stagger the joints and butt solder the sliding rail without rail joiners on curves. If you don't stagger the joints all you have is longer sectional track to my mind. I will use a small piece of solid copper wire on the outside of the rail up under the head for a little reinforcement. Pre-bend it to approximately the correct radius and it makes an excellent no kink joint. I will often solder the rail joiner joints on a curved section as well and bend those as well. And I will also run the staggered joints down straights as well. Stick in a thin credit card and you have your expansion gap(s).
This is so true. I tried the method of soldering 2 and 3 peices of flex together at first and my results where terrible, kinks everywhere with rails out of gauge. I started laying it out 1 peice at a time around curves staggering my joints and it came out perfect. I try to not cut ties for the rail joiners i just shave the top of it down right where the joiner goes with my x-acto knife until the rail joiner sits in there nicely, with bloody fingers and a few choice words later.
That is an interesting concept what a previous poster mentioned about putting the sliding rail on the outside rather than on the inside of the curve. I was always told put the sliding rail to the inside of the curve, but it does make sense on why to do it like that.
1. A TRAMEL scribing an arc: a yardstick with holes will work.
2a. CORK ROADBEB: lay outer half along curve - secure with nails or bonding agent 2b. lay inner half against inner - secure as above.
3. SOLDER 2 pieces flextrack together using rail joiners.
4.(starting in the middle) CURVE the rail working your way outward using your thumb and forfingers following the Centerline of the cork as a guide.
'GUILDING THE LILLY' : DRAW TWO CURVES - 2nd one 1" less D, - but touching curves at the center. Spreading the ends out to match the original curve gives a smoother transition.
'STIFFER TRACK' (Shinohara/Walthers/Micro-Engineering) gives you a smoother, more consistant curve than looser 'Superflex'.
gilligan wrote:That is an interesting concept what a previous poster mentioned about putting the sliding rail on the outside rather than on the inside of the curve.
Don't be afraid to cut two, even three ties from the end of a section of track you plan to use.
USE XURON RAIL SNIPS. If you have a Dremel also, the results will be even better..
USE TRACK NAILS. Make your work easier. If you don't like the appearance of nail heads down the centerline (c/l) of your track, remove them after ballasting.
LAY YOUR TRACK on the roadbed you've already created. *IMPORTANT* Make sure that the side with the rail that slides freely is on the INSIDE of the curve, this is the side that needs to flex the most.
STAGGER YOUR JOINTS. It makes for smoother curves. I like to go 5-10 ties back on the inside of the curve.
USE RAIL JOINTERS. If the rails don't mesh well, use your Dremel with a metal cutting disc and smooth cut-end of the rail. Save soldering for later, when installing buss.
Once your track is laid,
SHIM THE EMPTY SPACES with the removed ties. Using an X-acto knife, cut the tops of the ties flush, removing the molded rail braces and anchor plates.
RUN YOUR NMRA TRACK GAUGE through the joints and if needed, mark the limits of your no-go area (out of gauge).
USE YOUR DREMEL with a micro drill bit and drill a pilot hole through the center of each tie on the outside and inside edge of the rail at each tie within one tie either side of the no-go area. Be careful not to push too hard as you'll scar the railhead.
DRIVE TRACK NAILS in each hole making sure to keep the head flush to the top of the rail base. I like to use a 5 oz. tack hammer and Stanley nail set (available at the hardware isle at Wal-Mart.
Using your tack hammer and nail set,
ADJUST THE NAILS side to side until you achieve proper track gauge through the no-go area.
Spread your ballast.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
MilwaukeeRoad wrote:Great points Ted! I printed them out and saved them for later use. Where do I get a NMRA Gauge tool?
Your LHS should have them. If not, go to www.nmra.org and you'll find them there too.