I start soldering the flex track for my staging yard.I solder the join from the outside.After do you trim the solder or not?
It looks to me as if you are not getting enough heat in there. That looks like a joint that would just pull apart. Don't have any close-up pictures to post right now, but at my soldered flextrack joints the solder flows neatly into the joiner area, and I do both inside and outside of the rail. The solder on the inside does not protrude above the joiner so it does not interfere with the flanges. It appears in your picture that only the rails were hot, not the joiner.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I routinely solder two pieces of flex together to make one 6-foot piece. What works for me is to solder the bottom (upside down, on a workbench, obviously). That way I can heat one rail and the joiner, applying a bit of solder so it is drawn into the joint; then the other rail and joiner; then a very small amount on the outside of the joiner. Makes a strong joint without excess solder anywhere.
rrinker wrote: It looks to me as if you are not getting enough heat in there. ... my soldered flextrack joints the solder flows neatly into the joiner area, ... It appears in your picture that only the rails were hot, not the joiner. --Randy
It looks to me as if you are not getting enough heat in there. ... my soldered flextrack joints the solder flows neatly into the joiner area, ... It appears in your picture that only the rails were hot, not the joiner.
I have to agree with Randy, I checked my photos but all of the ones showing joiners are blurry. The solder should flow into and along the joiner, not sit above it. Try holding the iron at the junction of joiner and rail near one end of the joiner. As soon as it will take solder, slowly slide the iron towards the other end. The applied solder will follow of its own accord.
The amount of solder that you have is close to correct but the placement is not quite right.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
It does not look like you are getting the rails hot enough ... not long enough on heat, too small a wattage on the iron, My solder flows into the gaps between the joiner and the rails to the point that you almost cannot see it. Hold the iron at the joint of the rails against the joiner and touch the solder to the top edge of the joiner. If it is hot enough the solder will melt and flow into the gap. When I weather the joint with rust colored paint it vanishes completely. Just be careful ... too hot and you melt the plastic rails.
As far as the inside of the joiner. I have never felt in 30 years the need to go there. Perhaps I am a bad shot but I have gotten it in the flange area and then it is a bugger to get off and smooth it out. Just not worth the effort .. we all know what fun derails are.
Practice on some old track on the bench for a while .. you will get it!!!
Dave
Railroad wrote:I start soldering the flex track for my staging yard. I solder the join from the outside. After do you trim the solder or not?
Curve soldered:
Straight Not soldered:
dstark wrote: It does not look like you are getting the rails hot enough ... not long enough on heat, too small a wattage on the iron, My solder flows into the gaps between the joiner and the rails to the point that you almost cannot see it. Hold the iron at the joint of the rails against the joiner and touch the solder to the top edge of the joiner. If it is hot enough the solder will melt and flow into the gap. When I weather the joint with rust colored paint it vanishes completely. Just be careful ... too hot and you melt the plastic rails.As far as the inside of the joiner. I have never felt in 30 years the need to go there. Perhaps I am a bad shot but I have gotten it in the flange area and then it is a bugger to get off and smooth it out. Just not worth the effort .. we all know what fun derails are.Practice on some old track on the bench for a while .. you will get it!!! Dave
I realised that i did not get the rails hot enough,i was afraid of melting the plastic.Also the iron is only 25w but i saw that some people does use 25w iron.I pulled the rails after soldering and seems strong.And the good part is that i started from the staging yard so i will practice enough before solder the main layout tracks.
Pondini wrote: I routinely solder two pieces of flex together to make one 6-foot piece. What works for me is to solder the bottom (upside down, on a workbench, obviously). That way I can heat one rail and the joiner, applying a bit of solder so it is drawn into the joint; then the other rail and joiner; then a very small amount on the outside of the joiner. Makes a strong joint without excess solder anywhere.
Yes, this seems to be a nice way to go,I'll try it.
The shiny surface on your solder tells me the joint is good - but you've used WAY too much solder! In a really good joint, the solder goes down between the rail and the rail joiner and is all but invisible.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan on September, 1964 - with specialwork soldered up from raw rail)
I've just completed laying my Tillig Elite Track.
You should use the iron brush of your Drexel or Proxxon to clean the rails and the joiner. After that the solder should flow like water. If you find it necessary to do some afterworks you didn't solder correctly.
It is important to have enough power (Watt) to heat both rails and the joiner but not too much heat not to burn the solder ending up with pure lead only. That will typically look as it would need some afterwork. But it's too late. It will never last for long. You have to redo it.
Reinhard
Railroad wrote: Pondini wrote:I routinely solder two pieces of flex together to make one 6-foot piece.Yes, this seems to be a nice way to go,I'll try it.
Pondini wrote:I routinely solder two pieces of flex together to make one 6-foot piece.
When you solder the joint the solder should wick down into the rail joiner. You aren't using enough heat and heating both rail and joiner. The iron should be mainly on the rail as it has a greater mass.
Harold
Texas Zepher wrote: Railroad wrote:I start soldering the flex track for my staging yard. I solder the join from the outside. After do you trim the solder or not?I seldom solder, but when I do I solder from the outside. If properly done there shouldn't be any thing to trim, the one shown in the picture isn't bad, and could easily be filed down. However as the others have pointed out it doesn't look like the solder got sucked into the joint. That could be insufficent heat, or not enough flux so it wasn't clean. If one gets too much solder on the joint it can be removed with some solder wick or a solder sucker. It also looks like your joints are directly across from one another. I always stagger them. I also never trim the ties, but thread the surplus rail into the "spikes" of the next section's ties.Curve soldered: Straight Not soldered:
Personally, I think that Texas Zephyr is the master of track joining. I have not yet had the chance to emulate this method but will be adding a section to the layout later this year and will have ample opportunity. I particularly like the technique for not requiring the removal of ties.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Why do you stagger them?Is there a reason for that?
I think this is better.
Yes, that is much better. If the track and/or joiners are pre-weathered, then yes, that will cause problems with proper solder flow. Same for attaching feeder wires - you shold clean a section where the wires will be soldered on or you willg et poor results.
faraway wrote: I've just completed laying my Tillig Elite Track.You should use the iron brush of your Drexel or Proxxon to clean the rails and the joiner. After that the solder should flow like water. If you find it necessary to do some afterworks you didn't solder correctly. It is important to have enough power (Watt) to heat both rails and the joiner but not too much heat not to burn the solder ending up with pure lead only. That will typically look as it would need some afterwork. But it's too late. It will never last for long. You have to redo it.
Another handy hint for cleaning the side of the rail and railjoiner before soldering is to use an old style typing eraser, the kind you sharpen like a pencil. The rubbery end will form better to the shape of the side of the rail and buff the metal nicely. Then a small drop of flux, heat it, and touch the solder to the outside of the rail. It should only be heated for a couple seconds to make the solder flow into the joint. If you watch closely, you should be able to see the solder flow in between the rails and joiner.
BTW, I normally use a 40 watt iron for my rail and feeder soldering. Having the metal areas to be soldered clean is vital to getting a good solder joint.
Railroad wrote:Why do you stagger them?Is there a reason for that?
Only thing I would add(from other threads, not from my direct experience) is to use some sort of heat sink if you're concerned about melting the ties. E.G. a clamp/hemostat or some equivalent. And/or, as is discussed in one of the Kalmbach trackwork books, use wet tissue paper. If you're experienced, you can probably time the heat process enough that it's not neccessary. But as I'm also a newb, I plan on doing this to avoid melting/warping any ties.
Jim
jbloch wrote: Only thing I would add(from other threads, not from my direct experience) is to use some sort of heat sink if you're concerned about melting the ties. E.G. a clamp/hemostat or some equivalent. And/or, as is discussed in one of the Kalmbach trackwork books, use wet tissue paper. If you're experienced, you can probably time the heat process enough that it's not neccessary. But as I'm also a newb, I plan on doing this to avoid melting/warping any ties.Jim
Wet cotton balls work well for this as they can be molded to shape rather easily. If you are worried about warping, get them wet with rubbing alchohol which evaporates rapidly.
X-acto makes a sprung self closing sort of tweezers that also works nicely as a heat sink. I think it is made of aluminum.
There is no question but that melted ties are a real risk (or even if they look OK, the gauge shifted when the plastic was soft). As it happens MLR makes a soldering heat sink for model railroads -- it has HO gauge slots already built into it, although on some makes of track it does not work well. But here is a link to MLR (they make other handy jigs and tools for track laying)
http://www.mlrmfg.com/
Dave Nelson
When soldering I prefer a soldering iron as opposed to a soldering gun with different wattage triggers. Just be careful you don't lay the hot iron down where you can do major damage.
Also always "tin" the point of the soldering iron before you solder and tin it often. It's amazing how much dirt etc will attach to the point. Cleaning the soldering iron is very simple. Keep a damp sponge at your work area. Rub the hot point of the soldering iron on the damp sponge. It will remove all the junk. Then tin the iron again. Then you are ready to make a solder joint.
When done properly, the solder will be "sucked" into the joint.
I always touch and hold the solder to the most distance part of the joint that I want soldered. I hold the solder there the entire time I am soldering the joint. I NEVER touch the solder to the iron when soldering the joint.
Then with the other hand I touch the hot iron to the joint (at the other extreme end of the part of the joint I want soldered. I only hold the iron there until the solder is sucked in.
By putting the solder to the joint first and holding the iron only long enough to suck the solder in, you will not (most of the time) overheat the area and melt the ties. You want a iron that is hot enough to QUICKLY heat to the point that the solder will suck in.
Heat travels throught the rails for a long distance, but it takes time for the heat to travel. That is why you want to hold the iron to the rail as little time as possible. You only want the heat to travel to the point where the solder is waiting. That is why you want to hold the solder to connection before you put the heat to the joint.
As soon as the solder is sucked in, back the iron off and your pull your solder supply away. Your joint is done. Don't let the joint move for a few seconds. If you do you will cause the joint to fail and your solder joint will turn fuzzy looking instead of remaining shiny. That's a bad joint and will have to be redone. You will see the joint turn fuzzy within a couple of seconds if the joint is bad.
Woodlandtoots