Hello All,
Thank you for the updates on your progress and posting a track diagram.
It seems that you have decided on DCC only.
Have you considered a DCC system?
I chose NCE because of the way it makes and breaks consists.
The ergonomics of the throttle also was a plus for me.
Even though I use an NCE DCC system most of my decoders are Digitrax.
The National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) standards of interoperability ensure that all North American manufacturer's DCC products "play well with others" with different DCC systems.
I also have some European DCC-equipped locomotives that work on two (2) rail systems.
Keep us informed on your progress, keep the questions coming and as always...
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
richhotrain wjstix Unfortunately it's easy to be intimidated by wiring, in part because of all the books and articles on it with a lot of information. But really, it's not that hard. As mentioned, with DCC, it's very easy. You really don't need to even do any separate blocks unless you have a reverse loop, and then with DCC there are gizmos you can put into the circuit to automagically reverse the section. True, but depending upon the size and complexity of the layout, he may want to create power districts on a DCC powered layout plus circuit breakers to control the power districts. Rich
wjstix Unfortunately it's easy to be intimidated by wiring, in part because of all the books and articles on it with a lot of information. But really, it's not that hard. As mentioned, with DCC, it's very easy. You really don't need to even do any separate blocks unless you have a reverse loop, and then with DCC there are gizmos you can put into the circuit to automagically reverse the section.
Unfortunately it's easy to be intimidated by wiring, in part because of all the books and articles on it with a lot of information. But really, it's not that hard. As mentioned, with DCC, it's very easy. You really don't need to even do any separate blocks unless you have a reverse loop, and then with DCC there are gizmos you can put into the circuit to automagically reverse the section.
True, but depending upon the size and complexity of the layout, he may want to create power districts on a DCC powered layout plus circuit breakers to control the power districts.
Rich
This short post by Rich should be noted and considered carefully. My layout was mostly around-the-walls in a 24x24 foot space, with one decent-sized yard and a few smaller ones, plus sidings. I built it all just planning on one big layout with DCC. I later realized that separating the layout into power districts with circuit breakers would be wise, but I still had one overly large section. As I expanded the layout, I added breaker-isolated sections.
It may be tempting to just use one big block with a lot of power, but that can be dangerous. It's safer to set each breaker to 2 or 3 amps than to use a big 8 amp supply for everything, because that's a dangerous amount of power which could all rush to one point. My layout uses 4 circuit breakers plus two auto-reversers which are also breakers.
When you do get a short, it is much easier to find it with a number of breakers because the first steps in fault isolation are already done.
You don’t need to buy and install breakers right away, but it's a lot easier to isolate sections of the track right away and wire them as if you had breakers, but wire them together initially. Of course, if you're creating DC blocks as you go, you will already be isolating track sections.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Too old for N Scale Please look at the layout, and see if anyone you know would be willing to do wiring diagrams as a contractor. I looked at Tony's Train Exchange website, and the myriad PC boards doesn't make me feel any less anxious.
Please look at the layout, and see if anyone you know would be willing to do wiring diagrams as a contractor. I looked at Tony's Train Exchange website, and the myriad PC boards doesn't make me feel any less anxious.
You essentially have a 3-track mainline - - blue, orange and green - - and a long red siding that enters and exits the blue mainline. The red siding poses no particular wiring issue since it is in phase with the blue mainline. However, if you intend to run trains in both directions on the three mainlines, the crossovers raise issues of reverse polarity. Also, some of those turnouts could be eliminated in favor of double slips. I have a somewhat similar track plan on my layout.
When I get more time, I can come back with a more detailed analysis.
Alton Junction
If your plan is simple enough you can do both DC and DCC but when you get into advanced DCC stuff like auto reversing blocks and frog juicers, you have to lock them out in DC as they will not work or worse.
Thanks to JJDamnit for great advice and path to upload a drawing of the layout. Again, today it was JD, but all of you have given some great advice and issues to address, so thank you all! I'm glad I decided to post here. Please look at the layout, and see if anyone you know would be willing to do wiring diagrams as a contractor. I looked at Tony's Train Exchange website, and the myriad PC boards doesn't make me feel any less anxious. Thanks again.
Too old for N ScaleI'm posting my plan (if I can figure out how to do it).
To post an image; photo or JPEG, read the first post in "General Discussions " > How to Post a Photo to the Forums
Many people go with a photo hosting site, I use Google Drive (A feature of my Google(.)com email account.
If you want to use your Google Drive account I can post a link on how to do it.
Too old for N ScaleMy original reasoning was that some of my favorite locomotives are brass and DC, and I don't really want to mess with them to install decoders. My N Scale PRR brass J1 is my pride and joy, and it will suck not being able to run it, but I'd rather park it at the roundhouse than burn it up.
Be aware that not only do DCC and DC don't mix, parking a DC-equipped locomotive on a track with DCC power to it can still do damage.
One clever hobbyist- -with the same conundrum- -decided, rather than relegating his favorite DC locomotive to "Shelf Queen" status, he modeled a railroad history park with his pride and joy as the centerpiece of the display on an isolated piece of track.
This allows you to admire your favorite motive power on your pike, and- -if in future, you want to upgrade to DCC- -there won't be any damage to the electrical components.
To the OP: How many DC engines do you have? If it's only a handful, seriously consider just adding decoders to them and going pure DCC. It would likely cost less than going with both DC and DCC.
If you've got a big roundhouse full of DC engines that still work well, you will have decisions to make. Each engine conversion to DCC will cost between 20 and 100 dollars, depending on desired features, with on-board sound being the big one.
I was in the exact same spot as you. It's VERY easy to get overwhelmed with DCC. Hang in there. One option is you could find a local hobby shop or nearby MR club. Plenty of resources out there, but I can understand the steep learning curve.
I don't think my plan is overly complex (some of you may look at it and laugh at how simple it is, but I'm intimidated by turnout crossovers, the turntable, and the yard. I guess I could just put insulators in all the crossovers and just run straight loops, but I'd like to try my hand at some operations instead of just train watching.
I have a lot of older locos (including some brass and my favorite steamer a PRR J1 brass n scale) and I don't want to risk damaging them or hacking them apart to install decoders, keep alives, and modern motors. That's honestly the only reason.
rrebell Just post the plan here, DCC can be easy depending on what you want. How do I post a plan? I don't see how I can upload a file or pic
Just post the plan here, DCC can be easy depending on what you want.
Haha. Oops. Couple of updates. First, I typed my original post on my phone, and never spell-checked it to see that I was trying to hire a "furu". I mean "guru". Sorry. Second, I think enough of you have responded negatively that I've given up on DC/DCC wiring in favor of just DCC. My original reasoning was that some of my favorite locomotives are brass and DC, and I don't really want to mess with them to install decoders. My N Scale PRR brass J1 is my pride and joy, and it will suck not being able to run it, but I'd rather park it at the roundhouse than burn it up. Third, I'm posting my plan (if I can figure out how to do it). It was done in SCARM, but I have jpg and bmp versions of the file as well. Don't pay any attention to the right side (steel mill complex), I got that, it's the reversing units and turnouts I'm most concerned about. I can see a thousand places for short-circuits and would have no idea how to begin troubleshooting. And thanks, for all that have responded. Keep the suggestions/advice/warnings coming; I appreciate them all. Jeff
gregc One approach is to install a DPDT switch between DC and DCC to switch between a DCC command station and DC throttle and switch all the blocks to that throttle.
One approach is to install a DPDT switch between DC and DCC to switch between a DCC command station and DC throttle and switch all the blocks to that throttle.
That's what I did when I transitioned from DC to DCC. At the time I had something like 15 engines and the idea was to install decoders gradually as my income allowed it. You certainly don't want both systems to co-exist on the layout at the same time - it's better for you to have the layout go entirelly DC or DCC at the flick of a switch. What you don't want is having a loco travel from one DC block to a DCC block. That would fry your decoder.
Here's an example of the wiring that allows you to go from one system to another:
https://tonystrains.com/news/dc-dcc-power-wiring-diagram/
Like many, you will probably end up going DCC 100% of the time. But I can understand your intention of saving these old DC locos - I went through that phase as well.
Simon
Too old for N ScaleI have no idea how to do the wiring.
multiple locos on a DC layout are controlled using cab control. the layout is divided into block that a single loco can operate in. size of blocks depend on where multiple locos need to operate
DCC doesn't require any blocks
one approach as to DPDT switch between DC and DCC to switch between a DCC command station and DC throttle and switch all the blocks to that throttle.
seems like a lot of trouble to divide the layout into blocks to dun some DC locos instead of just using DCC
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
richhotrain Just out of curiosity, why do you want to do that? It poses a risky proposition that could result in damage to your locomotives. Rich
Just out of curiosity, why do you want to do that? It poses a risky proposition that could result in damage to your locomotives.
He's right. There are workarounds, but they may not be worth it. When I came back to the hobby, I planned to start out with DC, because I had some old engines and was unfamiliar with DCC. I had a small financial windfall and bought a DCC system and a new train. I put in a decoder, disconnected my old DC system and never ran a train with it again.
Too old for N Scale I want to be able to switch between DC and DCC.
I want to be able to switch between DC and DCC.
Finally have my dream layout on paper. It was designed using SCARM. The benchwork, track, and scenery are all under control, but after studying it in detail, I'm convinced I have no idea how to do the wiring. I want to be able to switch between DC and DCC. How can I find a DCC guru to hire to draw out the wiring diagram for me? I don't know how to even start looking. Thanks, Jeff