For laughs, I Googled 'furu'. It is a slang term for "fake guru". LOL. Well, that doesn't speak well for any of us replying to this thread. My question is why would the OP want to hire a fake guru?
Rich
Alton Junction
riogrande5761 What is a furu?
What is a furu?
Haha. Didn't even think about doing that. Once I started getting replies and comments back, I kinda let it go.
Mystery solved. Couldn't edit the title?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
A typo followed by a lack of spell checking before I posted. I meant guru, but by then it was too late. I'm too old for N Scale, maybe I'm too old for cell phones too jeff.
Too old for N Scale There are actually two leads at the top of the "loop" on the green track, the other lead is on the left side of the drawing on the green track just below the top gap on that side. I could move that turnout up farther and rearrange the yard to all be within the reversing section if necessary.
There are actually two leads at the top of the "loop" on the green track, the other lead is on the left side of the drawing on the green track just below the top gap on that side. I could move that turnout up farther and rearrange the yard to all be within the reversing section if necessary.
Your initial question when you first started this thread was about wiring. Suffice it to say, your entire layout can be wired the same way without regard to the reversing sections by installing gaps to isolate the reversing sections. That makes it a whole lot easier to complete the wiring.
The only special consideration for wiring the reversing section is that power to the input side of the auto-reverser must come from the bus wires on the non-reversing section. All of the feeders to the track inside the reversing section must be connected to the output side of the auto-reverser. No feeders from track inside the reversing section should stray to bus wires outside of the reversing section.
If you have a variety of colors for bus wire, you could use different colors for the reversing section to make identification a bit easier for troubleshooting purposes. I do that on my layout.
My bus wires are 14 gauge solid copper wire, and my feeders are 20 gauge solid copper wire. If I had it to do over, I would have used 22 gauge solid wire because the 20 gauge wire is just big enough to protrude above the rails if you are not careful soldering the wires to the rails. Some modelers prefer stranded wire for the bus wires.
Oops, I missed that. Is it the two turnouts off the green mainline at the top of the diagram above the turntable? Yes, that should be gapped right after the diverging track on both turnouts to isolate the yard from the reversing section. You want to keep the yard wired as a non-reversing section. Good catch!
If you gap the turnout on the left side at the other end of the yard, you could treat it as a separate power district protected by its own circuit breaker. You could do something similar with the sidings on the peninsula.
Too old for N Scale Awesome. That makes my life so much easier. Sorry with the continued questions, but.....with the reversing sections located as you suggest, the yard has one lead inside a reversing loop and the other lead outside in the main run. Should I just put insulators on both ends and run it as a separate district, or is another reversing loop?
Awesome. That makes my life so much easier. Sorry with the continued questions, but.....with the reversing sections located as you suggest, the yard has one lead inside a reversing loop and the other lead outside in the main run. Should I just put insulators on both ends and run it as a separate district, or is another reversing loop?
When you mention that one yard lead, where exactly is it?
Too old for N Scale Awesome. Thank you, again. Another question - Should the turnouts and double-slips have insulated frogs, electro-frogs, or "juiced" with a frog juicer and tortoise switch machine. I'd rather not motorize the switches if it's not necessary.
Awesome. Thank you, again. Another question - Should the turnouts and double-slips have insulated frogs, electro-frogs, or "juiced" with a frog juicer and tortoise switch machine. I'd rather not motorize the switches if it's not necessary.
On my prior layout(s), I used Atlas Custom Line turnouts powered by Tortoises. On my current layout, I use Peco Insulfrogs that are spring-loaded. So I can change routes with a flick of the finger, no Tortoises required.
Too old for N Scale Oops. Looks like I forgot to open it to the public for viewing. Please try it now. jeff
Oops. Looks like I forgot to open it to the public for viewing. Please try it now.
jeff
Let me orient the way that I am looking at the diagram. As I view it, the turntable/roundhouse are located in the upper right corner of the diagram. Using that orientation, move those gaps on the right side up past the crossovers so that the gaps are above all of them. That way, those gaps and the gaps on the upper left side of the diagram are what I will call the "upper reversing section". Then, the gaps on the bottom of the diagram and the gaps on the lower left side of the diagram are what I call the "lower reversing section". All of the crossover on the left side and all of the crossovers on the right side and all of the afjacent track on either side form parts of the two non-reversing sections. You want to keep all of the crossovers outside of the reversing sections.
Like many of us, I had an existing DC layout that I "converted" to DCC by replacing one of the power packs with a DCC system. As noted by others here, I would try to have one 'master switch' so it's all DC or all DCC. The problems can come when an engine crosses the gap between a DC block and a DCC block.
There are in fact many advantages to DCC beyond sound, but it's a bit off topic here so I won't go into it.
gregcmultiple locos on a DC layout are controlled using cab control. the layout is divided into block that a single loco can operate in. size of blocks depend on where multiple locos need to operate DCC doesn't require any blocks one approach as to DPDT switch between DC and DCC to switch between a DCC command station and DC throttle and switch all the blocks to that throttle. seems like a lot of trouble to divide the layout into blocks to dun some DC locos instead of just using DCC
DCC doesn't require any blocks
one approach as to DPDT switch between DC and DCC to switch between a DCC command station and DC throttle and switch all the blocks to that throttle.
seems like a lot of trouble to divide the layout into blocks to dun some DC locos instead of just using DCC
I wanted to keep running my old childhood DC locos. I wanted to take advantage of DCC. I wanted to learn how to do block wiring because it was a challenge I felt would be useful to overcome. I succeeded. It was fun and satisfying, and with my block wiring I can run DC locos on my yard, branch and main tracks at the same time. It took a lot of wire. I ended up buying more DC locos, old Atlas Kato and Mehano locos I found cheap at swap meets, and I only ever bought two DCC locos, which I almost never use. Sound drives me crazy. I installed bright LEDs in a lot of my DC locos, so there is nothing DCC offers me that DC does not.
I don't know why we keep trying to change people's minds here when someone asks how to do this.
But to answer the question, I don't know how to hire a guru.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Too old for N Scale I roughed in where I think you suggested the gaps should go into my drawing (red ink). Is this what you had in mind, or did I miss something.
I roughed in where I think you suggested the gaps should go into my drawing (red ink). Is this what you had in mind, or did I miss something.
Too old for N ScaleMy original reasoning was that some of my favorite locomotives are brass and DC, and I don't really want to mess with them to install decoders. My N Scale PRR brass J1 is my pride and joy, and it will suck not being able to run it, but I'd rather park it at the roundhouse than burn it up.
Well, to start with the last comment, there's really nothing you can do to 'burn up' a locomotive with DCC. If you completly mess up the installation, the worst that can happen is you fry the decoder. Not the engine.
Second it's not that hard to add a decoder. With older engines, including older brass, you have to isolate the motor from the chassis. You unscrew the motor mounts, put down black electrical tape, or a thin layer of plastic sheet, and use plastic/nylon screws (available at the hobby shop) to screw the motor back into place. Then connect the appropriate two wires from DCC decoder's harness to the motor leads. (The wires are color coded so you know which is which.)
Start by installing a nine-pin decoder harness. Once you believe it's all OK, plug in a basic / inexpensive non-sound decoder and try reading a CV back on the programming track, like the decoder ID. Programming tracks don't have enough electrical power to damage the decoder, so always do the programming track check first. If it can't read it, there's a short or some other problem you need to fix. If it comes back with the ID (03 or 0003), then it's OK.
p.s. given brass prices / value, it might be worth it to pay someone to install a decoder if you're really hesitant.
Too old for N Scale Dang. This is incredible help! How much can I pay you? It's worth every dime! Venmo, PayPal, cashier's check?
Dang. This is incredible help! How much can I pay you? It's worth every dime! Venmo, PayPal, cashier's check?
Keep us posted on your progress. That is quite a layout that you are about to build.
Sorry for so many replies, but it just seems easier to organize this discussion into separate issues.
The best advice is to create reversing sections longer than the longest train. That said, the reversing sections should not be much longer than the longest train in order to have the non-reversing sections as long as possible. If you are operating as a lone wolf, this should not necessarily be a problem. But, if you plan to have multiple operators running trains at the same time, the possibility increases that one train, running on the same track as another train may be entering a reversing section while another train has yet to fully exit that same reversing section. So, keep your reversing sections as short as possible, just longer than the longest train.
While we are on this particular subject, what trips the auto-reverser is the first set of powered wheels on the lead loco. If you are running a consist, the last loco has to exit the reversing section to avoid potential shorts. If you have lighted passenger cars or a lighted caboose, or a "powered" caboose, that last car needs to exit the reversing section. Now, I have some ABBA passenger consists and seven passenger cars, butt none of the passenger cars are lighted or otherwise powered. But those passenger cars have metal wheels, so I have to take those cars into account.
OK, I took a good look at your track plan.
If it were me, I would place gaps, to create reversing sections on the left side of your layout, immediately above and below the complex of crossovers, just before the curves headed east, so to speak.
On the right side of your layout I would place gaps right after the curves turn south, just before that first crossover.
At the bottom of your layout, I would place gaps just to the left of where that red colored siding branches off the blue colored track.
That would effectively create six reversing sections, two for each of the three mainlines.The advantage of this specific gapping arrangement is that none of the yards or sidings would be in a reversing section. That said, if it were me, I would set up the non-reversing sections of the layout into separate power districts, each protected by its own circuit breaker, such as a PSX unit. Maybe one power district for the engine servicing facility (the gray section where the turntable and roundhouse is situated) and one power district for the siding complex in the center of the layout on the peninsula.
Too old for N Scale I think I get it. Now, all I have to do is go back to my plan and see if I can make your drawings match my drawings. Where to place the reversing units is still a concern to me, but I hope now I can figure it out.
I think I get it. Now, all I have to do is go back to my plan and see if I can make your drawings match my drawings. Where to place the reversing units is still a concern to me, but I hope now I can figure it out.
Let me look more closely at your track plan, so I can suggest where to place the gaps.
Man! These three posts are exactly the type of information I need. It makes sense to me now. I knew I'd hit reverse polarity with crossovers and trains running in opposite directions, but I didn't know how to fix it. I think I get it. Now, all I have to do is go back to my plan and see if I can make your drawings match my drawings. Where to place the reversing units is still a concern to me, but I hope now I can figure it out. Great simple drawings for a simple-minded person like me! Thank you. Jeff
On your planned layout, you use a number of turnouts to create crossovers from one track to another. This arrangement is ideal because it permits trains to operate in both directions on any of the three mainline tracks. I do this on my 4-track mainline.
However, this requires the use of 8 turnouts on each side of your track plan, using up valuable space and resulting in the formation of the dreaded S-curves which can cause derailments. My solution to these two issues is to replace the inner four turnouts on each side of the track plan with double slips, saving valuable space and eliminating the dreaded S-curves. I have done this on my layout and the result is trouble-free operation. The attached drawing illustrates the two arrangements and the circles identify the position of the double slips.
There is something curious about reversing sections and that is that one end of the reversing section always has matching polarities with the adjacent non-reversing section. However, once a train has entered the reversing section, the polarity of the rails on the other end of the reversing section no longer matches the polarity of the adjacent non-reversing section.
Moving from left to right among the three drawings in that diagram, if you follow the arrows which represent the movement of the train, you can see where the mismatched polarities occur. For this reason, it is critical that the reversing section be long enough to accomdate the entire train, Otherwise, if portions of the train are still entering the reversing section as the lead loco exits the reversing section, a short may occur.
When you have two parallel tracks with a crossover, the polarity on each section of track will match. Using red and black lines to simulate rails, the following diagram illustrates this siuation in the left side drawing.
However, if the track loops, there will be reverse polarity where the looped track returns to the point of the crossover, as iillusrated by the two circles in the center drawing. This situation will cause a short.
To remedy this situation, you need to create a "reversing section" with some sort of device to immediate recognize the mismatched polarities and reverse them to match, thereby avoiding the short.
The right side drawing illustrates a full loop. Using circles to illustrate gaps, cuts in the rails or plastic rail joiners, you isolate both ends of the loop, and each end of the loop becomes a separate reversing section. By doing this, the center of that looped track can then use parallel wired tracks with crossovers without causing a short, similar in wiring to the left side drawing.
The most efficient way to wire the end loops, i.e., the reversing sections, is to install "auto-reverser" devices, solid state circuit boards that automatically detect and correct reverse polarities.