I noticed they are constantly out of inventory. I also can't find documentation anymore for their command bus protocol.
What's going on there?
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffin I noticed they are constantly out of inventory. I also can't find documentation anymore for their command bus protocol. What's going on there?
Back in February, 2022, I sent in a Switch-8 board to NCE for repair since it was no longer responding to commands. After a reasonable amount of time without hearing back from NCE, I called to inquire on the status of the Switch-8 board. I was told that it was not repairable and that I could purchase a new one at a substantial discount, but the item was on backorder. Several months later, I called and inquired once again and was told that the item was still on backorder. In February, 2023, now one year later, I called once again. Still on backorder. I have given up on the matter, and NCE is still holding my original Switch-8.
Rich
Alton Junction
I just took a look at the NCE website. Lots of items "out of stock".
Interesting. Around five years ago when I wanted to replace my MRC system I was inclined to go with Digitrax but nobody had them in stock so I went with NCR - which was available. That was back before the pandemic related supply chain issues so not sure what the Digitrax shortage was about (but I doubt it was due to overwhelming demand). Who knows what that kind of issue could be around now.
reasearchhound Interesting. Around five years ago when I wanted to replace my MRC system I was inclined to go with Digitrax but nobody had them in stock so I went with NCR - which was available. That was back before the pandemic related supply chain issues so not sure what the Digitrax shortage was about (but I doubt it was due to overwhelming demand). Who knows what that kind of issue could be around now.
I don't know the exact timing of your purchase but back several years ago Digitrax suffered a near fatal natural disaster, either a fire or a hurricane. their Florida corporate site was practically completely destroyed. It took over a year for them to get back to be able to reasonably provide products. It would appear today they are back to normal. This doesn't answer what's going on at NCE but just to explain Digitrax's past issue.
I was chatting with a guy who had an NCE system that packed it in during the height of Covid. He immediately started going through serious withdrawal being on lockdown and not being able to run trains. He knew of the delays with NCE and did not want to send his system in. I suggested he just take it to a local electronics repair facility and see if they could fix it. The tech at the shop said electronics are electronics we'll see what we can do. He had it back in two days working perfectly.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
When I entered the model railroad hobby back in early 2004, my LHS guys intoduced me to DCC and set me up with an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system.
Early on, I began acquiring DCC-ready locomotives and installing NCE decoders. Later, I added an NCE Mini Panel and a Switch-8 to automate my train station track work. I think very highly of NCE, their staff, and their customer service. I hope all is well with them.
richhotrain I think very highly of NCE, their staff, and their customer service. I hope all is well with them.
So do I, they have always gone above and beyond when answering questions for me.
I remember the day I brought my baby home.
BATMAN I was chatting with a guy who had an NCE system that packed it in during the height of Covid. He immediately started going through serious withdrawal being on lockdown and not being able to run trains. He knew of the delays with NCE and did not want to send his system in. I suggested he just take it to a local electronics repair facility and see if they could fix it. The tech at the shop said electronics are electronics we'll see what we can do. He had it back in two days working perfectly.
Brent, this doesn't surprise me at all. A lot of folks are mezmorized by what is in the black box, but most of it is likely common stuff. Sure, the DCC board is likely proprietary in its design, but I can't see where the board itself would actually wear out.
The stuff that wears out or breaks is probably the various connection pieces and interfaces; wires, plugs, buttons. etc. that can probably be repaired by any experienced repairman.
- Douglas
BATMAN I suggested he just take it to a local electronics repair facility and see if they could fix it. The tech at the shop said electronics are electronics we'll see what we can do.
I think finding a shop would be the challenge. Finding bad components is one thing, but having the knowledge to understand what the device is supposed to do might be something else.
Doughless The stuff that wears out or breaks is probably the various connection pieces and interfaces; wires, plugs, buttons. etc. that can probably be repaired by any experienced repairman.
I read a few months ago that NCE was suffering from the chip shortage like many companies were.
I love my NCE Power Cab! My old club used Digitrax and I hated them. All the buttons are the same and the screen is pitiful. My NCE is easy to read and use.
There! Now that I have offended every dedicated Digitrax fan out there I will run and hide somewhere.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter I read a few months ago that NCE was suffering from the chip shortage like many companies were. I love my NCE Power Cab! My old club used Digitrax and I hated them. All the buttons are the same and the screen is pitiful. My NCE is easy to read and use. There! Now that I have offended every dedicated Digitrax fan out there I will run and hide somewhere. Cheers!! Dave
Actually this was mentioned on the Modelers Life podcast.
The parts he needed were, in his words, "jellybean parts". Everyone used them.
The suppliers were blunt: If you want them at that price, you'll be waiting 2 years to get them. If you are willing to pay more, a year. Want them right now, this is what it will cost you.
If NCE were to pay the price to get the parts now, their MSRP would have increased in turn and priced them out of the market.
DigitalGriffin hon30critter I read a few months ago that NCE was suffering from the chip shortage like many companies were. I love my NCE Power Cab! My old club used Digitrax and I hated them. All the buttons are the same and the screen is pitiful. My NCE is easy to read and use. There! Now that I have offended every dedicated Digitrax fan out there I will run and hide somewhere. Cheers!! Dave I don't blame you as an owner of a DCS 51. But the DCS 52 and all the new stuff is leaps and bounds better.
I don't blame you as an owner of a DCS 51. But the DCS 52 and all the new stuff is leaps and bounds better.
betamax The suppliers were blunt: If you want them at that price, you'll be waiting 2 years to get them. If you are willing to pay more, a year. Want them right now, this is what it will cost you. If NCE were to pay the price to get the parts now, their MSRP would have increased in turn and priced them out of the market.
rrebell Never had a problem with the 51. I find that Digitrax plays well with older stuff as far as decoders go.
Never had a problem with the 51. I find that Digitrax plays well with older stuff as far as decoders go.
DigitalGriffinI'm not sure I understand that business model.
are you suggesting selling things at a loss is a better business model?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregc are you suggesting selling things at a loss is a better business model?
I wouldn't go as far as saying something doesn't smell right. It is definitely a poor business model, though, as you have said.
It's a judgment call, choosing to lose stock rather than raise prices. It's bad judgment IMHO, because with a few exceptions, it's like closing the doors on a retail establishment or extended silence on a radio station. You lose customers that never come back. Once forced to find an alternative, there is often little motivation to re-visit the older choice.
As for electronics parts shortages, it's not COVID and it's not new. As a mfr, the choice is what you do about it. Parts obsolesce in a matter of a few years and happen all the time. When's the last time you could easily buy a TO-3 transistor? For that matter, try finding non-power type TO-220 or TO-92 transistors - or the same through-hole parts of any kind that were readily available 10 years ago.
It could be that the real choice is whether to re-design and they either don't want to do that or can't.
DigitalGriffin betamax The suppliers were blunt: If you want them at that price, you'll be waiting 2 years to get them. If you are willing to pay more, a year. Want them right now, this is what it will cost you. If NCE were to pay the price to get the parts now, their MSRP would have increased in turn and priced them out of the market. But they are selling nothing now. How do you keep the lights on when you occassionally only have the entry level cab available? People are waiting on parts and upgrades. I'm not sure I understand that business model.
But they are selling nothing now. How do you keep the lights on when you occassionally only have the entry level cab available? People are waiting on parts and upgrades. I'm not sure I understand that business model.
NCE's model is when they get parts, the manufacture the product and ship. They keep little if any inventory of finished product.
NCE is a small fish in a very large pond. The small fish get the leftovers. When the interview was recorded, the "normal" price for common parts meant they would proably be delivered this year. At that time you paid a premium because you and your suppliers were competing with everyone else for a limited supply. There still would be the issue of timely delivery.
I doubt you would be willing to pay 35 - 40% more for a product due to supply issues.
Will people pay for a 35% price increase? If they don't have a choice....yes.
IC_TomTO-3 transistor? For that matter, try finding non-power type TO-220 or TO-92 transistors - or the same through-hole parts of any kind that were readily available 10 years ago
You may be right. I haven't seen those parts in years. Still I'm going to let this go.
I don't believe nce is a bad company. They made really nice stuff. I wish them the best despite my doubts. But I'm sure I'm not the only one noticing.
But in the back of my mind I'm hoping they are just secretly investing most money into a new cab design the way digitrax did.
Despite some of the comments here, NCE decoders AND their new PH-Pro system is out in the market at dealers. The new system was mentioned on another forum.
NCE has a great customer service department, both on the phone and for repairs.
Like many manufacturers, parts and more happen to be in short supply. When was the last time you walked into the supermarket and saw a sticker on the shelf in an empty spot stating 'unavailable due to manufacturer supply issues'? I've seen this many times, so let's put this all into perspective. NCE is not a Walthers or Athearn, they're a small successful company doing what they do best and that is make DCC systems and components.
Neal
Disclaimer: I have NO AFFILIATION with NCE. Just a very satisfied customer.
I'm not buying this argument that NCE is waiting patiently for its suppliers to catch up on production of parts so that NCE can market its products at more reasonable prices. That may never happen. I get the argument that NCE cannot market its product if parts are unavailable, a supply problem. But, if parts are available but the suppliers are demanding higher prices, if NCE wants to stay in business, it better acquire the parts, albeit at higher prices. Of course, that means charging its customers higher prices, but so be it. Fish or cut bait.
100% Rich. You charge what you have to and hopefully, stay in business and lower your prices as your costs come down. How long can you stay in business selling nothing?
nealknowsDespite some of the comments here, NCE decoders AND their new PH-Pro system is out in the market at dealers.
I'm not sure who's shopping where, but this thread made me curious. I had no problem finding NCE products for sale at various online model rr retailers. Decoders to throttles to full systems. Maybe it's just me.
Mike
BATMAN 100% Rich. You charge what you have to and hopefully, stay in business and lower your prices as your costs come down. How long can you stay in business selling nothing?