I agree with the points made above. The joiners should be tight. If the layout is "permanent", soldering the joints is the best solution. Leave some gaps if you don't have good climate control (high heat will create expansion). Otherwise, make sure your joiners are tight - remove and squeeze them lightly with pliers to make the fit tighter. Adding more power feeders will also make a huge difference.
About the cars, do you mostly run them forward? If yes, then adding a bit of weight will make a difference. The best weights are sold in hobby stores, but you can glue your own, such as fishing weights with hot-gun glue.
If you do a lot of backing-up operations, then you might need more complex surgery on the cars for reliable operations. Removing the offending cars from the layout is the easiest solution. Otherwise, check the cars and see if the couplers are connected to the trucks (vs. the body of the car). Body-mounted couplers perform better when backing up. If you really want this, you will need to buy Kadee couplers, with coupler boxes, and install them on the body of the car (not the truck). You will need to clip off the coupler box from the truck, and install the coupler box on the underside of the car. This is better done with a 2-56 size screw. You will need a Kadee gauge to check the coupler height. Of course, this assumes that your cars have Kadee couplers (or something compatible). If you have horn hook couplers (google it!), then backing-up will be difficult whatever you do...
Simon
MilehighRR Seems like the locos will slow down/loose power when going into a new power section
If you mean: entering a different block, then I would suspect your feed to the track is inadequate, or you are depending on rail connectors to transmit electrons or your track is dirty. I am not a fan of soldering all the rail connectors because I once experienced kinked track. We are big into feeders with DCC.
As for the derailing we need more information. Old and new cars are often underweight by NRMA standards. Put a light flat car in the middle of the train and you will get a stringlining derailment. It also could be just certain cars or related to the direction of travel. A NMRA gauge is very useful to detect wheel sets that are out of spec. We had one person who asked a similar question and he posted pics of his layout and there were obvious kinks.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Go to the General Discussion forum, on top of the list is Steve Otte's "sticky note" on how to post pictures.
Mike.
My You Tube
Is there a way to post pics on here to show you guys the layout and etc?
What kind modern and more reliable DC components are you referring to upgrade this DC layout? I am going to keep this layout DC with the possibility to make a new modern DCC layout. The wife will 'love' another train board....
Yup this is the layout.
Thanks very much for the information. Great stuff. I think I would like to restore the layout to its former glory. Won't take too much much, because everything already 'mostly' works. An6 recommendations for restoration?
They are all Tycos I believe maybe one or two Bachmans.
Great info. I agree about the cost of converting to DCC. I think the best idea with this layout is to replace a couple of the turnouts and keep everything as orgianlly built and run it on DC? The train do operate on the fairly well. Seems like the locos will slow down/loose power when going into a new power section. Also, I do have a problem with some of the cars de-railing. Do you have a recommendation for this? Add weight? Any other recommendations you have for getting DC to operate better?
Nice explanation, Stix.
Rich
Alton Junction
DCC decoders have "Back EMF" which is sort of like a cruise control in a car, only you don't have to turn it on and off. So once you set the engine to a certain speed, it keeps running at that speed whether going upgrade, downgrade, around a curve, etc. until you change the throttle setting.
Many also have "keep alive" capability, where the engine will keep going for up to 10 seconds if it loses power. That is very helpful in older steam engines where the engine picks up power from one rail and the tender from the other, and if you have a layout with unpowered frogs.
I would argue that with these two things alone, it is possible that a DC locomotive will run better if changed to DCC.
jjdamnitIf, in the future, you are planning on joining a club or participating in operating sessions purchasing the same system used is important.
This is not entirely true as most clubs/private operating sessions have extra throttles available or you can use your cell phone as a throttle. If neither of these options are available, you only need to purchase a throttle to use at the club. If it turns out the club uses a system you don't really like, you don't have to purchase the same system for your home layout.
Hornblower
Hello All,
mbinsewi...they also have a DCC wireing (SIC) plan, there is a link on the web site, under the plan description...
The problem with the Atlas DCC wiring conversion(s) is that they rely on the Atlas #205 Connectors and a DC Cab (power supply) rather than using a DCC power bus with feeders and a wall wart to power the turnout motors.
Converting the Yardmaster pike to DCC would be much simpler than what Atlas suggests.
With the turnouts; Atlas Snap Switches, the frogs cannot be powered for more reliable DCC operation.
As I suggested, restore this pike to its former DC glory and then decide if upgrading to DCC is cost-effective, or would starting from scratch and possibly refining the track plan, be a better option.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
People, including myself, have said that if it doesn't run well in DC, it won't in DCC. However at a very low speed step, with good track and wiring, a loco will positively crawl with DCC.
Welcome! I'll make this simple. I started with a 4x6 HO, DC layout. Very simple to switch over to DCC.
As for brand, ask around your area what other people have. See if there is a club or other group. Check at your local hobbyshop. (If you have one.) By finding out what is popular in your area other folks can help you out and if you get into a group you can take your controlller along to their layut to share in the fun.
Have fun,
Richard
Edit: Be sure your track and wheels are clean. Can make quite a performance difference.
edit: Be sure your track and wheels are clean. Can make a real performance difference.
maxmanI believe that these statements are incorrect. Boosters are basically power supplies.
IDK but you can't mix and match starter systems. However a 4x8 layout running 2 trains, doesn't need a separate booster. That was a point I tried to make, which may have been lost in the Internet. The starter books have diagrams of 5 boosters and separate power districts. That is for a mega railroad, not a 4x8.
jjdamnitYou can't use an NCE throttle (controller) with Digitrax boosters (power sources).
jjdamnitIf you choose Digitrax you will need to stick with their throttles (controllers) and boosters (power packs).
I believe that these statements are incorrect. Boosters are basically power supplies.
I think what you meant to say was throttles and command stations.
NVSRRGet one or two dcc equipped locos and the digitrax zypher. That seams to be the one most recommended to beginners.
When deciding on a DCC system (Manufacturer) there are many factors to consider rather than just, "Brand 'X' is a popular choice."
The National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) is an organization dedicated to the standards and recommended practices of model railroading, primarily in North America.
In the early years of digital control, there were many components that weren't interoperable.
Putting it simply, one manufacturer's DCC system wasn't compatible with another's decoders.
The NMRA standardized the interoperability of DCC components. Today you can use Digitrax decoders with an NCE system with no issues.
My first DCC system was the Bachman Dynamis. It is known as a "Dead End" system. The expansion possibilities are limited and it does not interface with the "beginner" E-Z Command® Plus DCC Controller.
(This system is no longer supported by Bachmann and is only available on the used market in North America.)
The major North American manufacturers of DCC systems won't mix and match with other manufacturers.
You can't use an NCE throttle (controller) with Digitrax boosters (power sources). Yes, there are exceptions.
If you choose Digitrax you will need to stick with their throttles (controllers) and boosters (power packs). As stated above you can use other manufacturers' decoders, but the components of the DCC control system need to be the same.
The ergonomics of the throttle can be a deal breaker for some.
Bachmann Dynamis throttles are similar to a video game controller.
Digitrax throttles have two (2) speed wheels at the top, in a dial configuration, so you can control two (2) separate trains simultaneously. While the previously mentioned Zypher system looks more like a DC controller with a rheostat-type (large knob) speed controller.
NCE has the speed wheel placed in the center of the throttle in a thumb wheel configuration along with push-button speed control.
MRC has a single speed wheel at the bottom of the throttle in a dial configuration.
If, in the future, you are planning on joining a club or participating in operating sessions purchasing the same system used is important.
However, if you are only going to run your pike ("lone wolf") then choose the system that meets your budget, needs, and ergonomics.
The Bachmann Dynamis system is not bad but I found I needed a system with more functions and expandability.
I went with NCE for the ergonomics and consisting methods.
As I suggested in my earlier post, get the DC system running and then consider which DCC system best fits your needs.
Keep the questions coming, keep us appraised of your progress, and as always...
I was one of .those who didn't find any advantage to DCC and then the the sound got better which needed well powered frogs. Found Digitrax to be the most rugged and simple but NCE for more advanced stuff. The Bachmann stuff is real simple too but I was not a fan because as you learn you want it to do more stuff but the Bachmann DCC control stuff can be bought real cheap second hand.
MilehighRR I have a old 4'x8' HO "The Yardmaster" layout track that my dad built for me when I was a kid.
Is this the plan I found on the Atlas web site, "HO-10, the Yardmaster" ?
https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-44183-ho-10-the-yardmaster.aspx
If so, they also have a DCC wireing plan, there is a link on the web site, under the plan description:
https://shop.atlasrr.com/DCC/Layouts/DCC_Wiring_HO-10.pdf
Your getting great advice, so please read everyone's response.
MilehighRRbut it's DC power, so it's not nearly as smooth as DCC
Coverting your old locos to DCC will NOT make them run smoother, as others have said, and I personally wouldn't try to convert a Tyco locomotive to DCC, and I wouldn't suggest trying to run your old Tyco DC locos on a DCC layout.
You will be far better off buying a DCC equipped locomotive, or a DCC "ready" locomotive. The "ready" means that you need to "unplug" the DC jumper, and "plug in " a DCC decoder. Sound is optional, and will add considerable cost to the locomotive.
Read the suggested articles and books, and do some home work, you'll be fine.
I don't see where you mention which locos you have. That can make a difference if it is worth the aggravation of converting them. If they are older trainset engines. Dcc is finikey. With dirt and connections. Best bet. Find one or two basic dcc equipped engines To start. Worry about converting the old ones once you better understand dcc and the wiring system. It is laid out simple. And color coded. I too converted from dc to dcc back in 93. When it was a tougher thing and no standards were around. And did convert trainset style engines over. To get you started I recommend first replacing the the wire and connections so those will not be and issue for you. Get one or two dcc equipped locos and the digitrax zypher. That seams to be the one most recommended to beginners. Get some of the books on dcc That should get you running. There is a learning curve
once running then delv into learning the dcc stuff more and maybe convert the old locos and such once you have learned more. the nationAl model railroad association I'd another good source of info once you get going.
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
As alluded to by Hornblower, if you ask a question of 5 Model Railroaders, you’ll more than likely get 6 answers. In MY experience, the Digitrax Zephyr DCC All in one Control Station has done sterling service on the Clubs portable layouts. Depending on how your layout was wired, connecting in DCC should b easy; I see Henry has already mentioned there is no reversing loop. I would suggest that as a starter, that buying a DCC ready sound equipped locomotive, while coming at with a cost, maybe less frustrating than converting your existing locomotives.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
to the forums.
As has been noted your first few posts will be moderated, so be patient.
The track plan you are referring to is still produced by Atlas:
The Yardmaster
MilehighRR...my dad built for me when I was a kid.
As with all things sentimental- -restoration can sometimes be more costly than a complete upgrade.
That's a decision you should consider.
In regards to the physical makeup of the track- -modern track rails are made of Nickle-Silver, while older rails were made of Brass.
Restoring Brass track is not impossible but will take some effort to get whatever locomotive you are using, running reliably.
Regarding the turnouts (switches) many people don't use the remote switch machines and throw them manually.
At this point, I would not dwell on them unless they are causing derailment issues.
With the motive power (locomotives)...
If they don't run reliably on DC converting to DCC won't help and might exacerbate the problems.
Before committing to DCC determine if the present pike (layout) is worth upgrading or should you focus your effort and money on restoration.
If this were my project I would opt for the restoration path.
Keep the pike DC.
This will simplify the restoration of the motive power.
There are plenty of great folks on these forums to guide you on this path.
During this project you will be exposed to many facets of this great hobby- -some you may enjoy and some- -not so much.
Go the restoration path if your focus is on reviving this fallen pike to its former glory.
If your wish is to upgrade this classic to modern standards consider a complete rebuild with more modern and reliable DC components now, with an eye towards DCC in the future.
Keep the questions coming, let us know of your progress, and as always...
I had trouble too Henry, I think it's because this thread was moved from the Gneral Discussion to here while we were trying to respond.
I had a long respons to his thraed which is gone, maybe I'll try again later. Getting tired of these problems. This happened in the diner the other day too.
I would not recommend running old DC locos for prolonged periods of time (i.e. with kids) on a DCC layout. The motors will burn out.
snjroyYour old locos will not run well on DCC and new locos cost about 80$ minimum
If they run well on DC, that statement is not true. There are articles about "tuning up" Athearn Blue Box's. Stewart and LifeLike Proto don't need no stinkin' tuneup.
Hi there. DCC is great, but expensive. Your old locos will not run well on DCC and new locos cost about 80$ minimum. So, if it's for you, I would say do your homework first. If it's for your kids, i'd say stick with DC and let them have fun..
One more time. to the forum. Your initial posts are delayed in moderation.
I suggest a beginner book on DCC from Kalmbach. DCC has a learning curve and is not intuitive.
Your track plan can be googled but I am frustrated by errors in trying to post to this obsolete forum. Being obsolete, we can't see your pics. There is a sticky on how to post photos, which usually work.
Anyway there are no reversing loops that would cause special considerations. Running two trains at once can be challenging from purely a concentration viewpoint. DCC purists like a track bus and feeders every 6'.
Modern HO engines are a) highly detailed, b) expensive and c) fragile considering the age of your children. Conversion to DCC makes more sense, and less expensive if you don't go for sound.
I don't know what the "glitchy" system is that Hornblower refers to. I have an NCE Powercab and am happy but NCE owners would welcome an upgrade to the ergonomic but old design.