Peco, the manufacturer, has investigated and decided to make changes. The continued arguement over whether or not the issue exists is pointless.
Water Level Route Doughless 50 different locomotives and about a dozed cars. This was over Peco Insulfrog #6 and Peco Insulfrog #8 Sounds like you are also using code 83 like Rich. Like I said in an earlier post, I've got code 100. Hopefully they got it solved on the code 83 and the new unifrog on the code 100. Sounds encouraging that you were unable to recreate the issue with yours.
Doughless 50 different locomotives and about a dozed cars. This was over Peco Insulfrog #6 and Peco Insulfrog #8
Sounds like you are also using code 83 like Rich. Like I said in an earlier post, I've got code 100. Hopefully they got it solved on the code 83 and the new unifrog on the code 100. Sounds encouraging that you were unable to recreate the issue with yours.
Rich
Alton Junction
AEP528 Peco, the manufacturer, has investigated and decided to make changes. The continued arguement over whether or not the issue exists is pointless.
I dont believe that Peco has said anything about the Insulfrog having design issues. Not in the decade or so the turnouts have been around.
- Douglas
richhotrain Water Level Route Doughless 50 different locomotives and about a dozed cars. This was over Peco Insulfrog #6 and Peco Insulfrog #8 Sounds like you are also using code 83 like Rich. Like I said in an earlier post, I've got code 100. Hopefully they got it solved on the code 83 and the new unifrog on the code 100. Sounds encouraging that you were unable to recreate the issue with yours. Maybe I got lucky since I bought most of my Peco Insulfrogs during a short time frame but from several different eBay sellers. Perhaps one or more runs were flawed but not all? Dunno. Rich
Maybe I got lucky since I bought most of my Peco Insulfrogs during a short time frame but from several different eBay sellers. Perhaps one or more runs were flawed but not all? Dunno.
I once got a bunch of Atlas Custom Line turnouts that had the tangent track bowed so badly it made the turnout look like a wye. Try making a yard ladder or laser straigth mainline with a bowed out tangent track.
Then another bunch of the same Atlas turnouts were laser straight.
I chalked it up to the variables that can occur and the minor issues that need to be solved once in a while.
Along with having to file down the pot metal frogs on Atlas turnouts when one seems too high once in a while.
Its an imprecise hobby.
LastspikemikeThe isolation gap between the two point rails at the heel of the Unifrog is much narrower than in the Insulfrog. Add the power routing difference: Unifrog is not and the point rails therefore always being live, and the Unifrog is more prone to this shorting issue than was the Insulfrog.
Good points.
I will say that I wire the Peco 83s Insulfrog on all three legs since I don't care for the power routing nature of the design, so the rails at the frog are always live. Still no shorts.
There must be a difference in the gap between Unifrog and Insulfrog to where Peco quickly took notice and promised correction.
I think the Insulfrog shorting issue is overstated. Our club layout has about 75 HO Insulfrogs, all installed with conductive joiners. Few of our members actually know about the issue and we don't experince shorts that can be attributed to the so called issue.
However, last club night we did experience a consistent short from one locomotive on two particular points. The loco is a Walthers loco so unlikely to have wide or no taper wheels. I didn't have my nail polish with me but tried a bit of tape. That didn't cure the problem but is is looking like the leading axle is out of gauge.
bagal
Mmmm... will update next club night.
I have about 40 insulfrog turnouts on my HO scale layout. Both code 100 and code 83. I had to add the .01 strip to the code 100 guard rails. Did not add any insulated rail joiners and in fact added feeders at the outlet of the turnout because the turnout adds resistance at the outlet. Did experience shorting at the code 83 frogs. Fixed that by either filing a bigger gap or using nail polish.
markie97 Did experience shorting at the code 83 frogs.
Whaaaat? Thought it was an urban myth.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 markie97 Did experience shorting at the code 83 frogs. Whaaaat? Thought it was an urban myth.
It would be helpful if people report shorts to describe the equipment as to help others understand the problem, because the problem is not the turnout.
Completed the test with all of my locos. Put another 20 cars on the track. Shoved them as far as I could towards the frog and slid them back and forth.
How come I can't produce a short even when I try, and others seem to have them just by running trains?
The issue must not be with the turnout.
Disclosure: I'm running cars produces after 2000 and locos produced after 2008.
But I'm an imprecise guy. I dont know what 0.10" is, or an RP-25, or a bunch of other stuff that gets discussed.
I simply buy stuff, unbox it, install it...and it all works just fine.....over 20 years now. The only thing that didn't work in the past 20 years were those old LL P2K GPs with the cracked gears...because it actually was a flaw...they all didn't work.
I must be living right some how LOL.
Above I mentioned a short with a Walthers locomotive and thought it might be due to out of gauge wheelset. Turns out the second axle was about 20 thou out of gauge.
Like Douglas i have tried to replicate the short. Can do it by tilting a car, but that doesnt replicate real situations. I say there is no design iissue with Insulfrog, just a compatibility issue with some out of specs wheels.
Bagal
bagal Like Douglas i have tried to replicate the short. Can do it by tilting a car, but that doesnt replicate real situations. I say there is no design iissue with Insulfrog
Like Douglas i have tried to replicate the short. Can do it by tilting a car, but that doesnt replicate real situations. I say there is no design iissue with Insulfrog
markie97 I have about 40 insulfrog turnouts on my HO scale layout. Both code 100 and code 83. I had to add the .01 strip to the code 100 guard rails. Did not add any insulated rail joiners and in fact added feeders at the outlet of the turnout because the turnout adds resistance at the outlet. Did experience shorting at the code 83 frogs. Fixed that by either filing a bigger gap or using nail polish.
To be clear about it, shorting only occurred on a handful of my code 83 turnouts and mainly occurred with a specific manufacturer's locomotives(probably wider wheel threads IDK). My concern about insulating the outlets of the turnout is that you're relying on the point contact to pickup power. In my experience not very reliable.
bagal I say there is no design iissue with Insulfrog
I say there is no design iissue with Insulfrog
You can say or believe what you like, but Peco has already acknowledged the issue with the identical Unifrog frog design. They plan to re-engineer it to mitigate the issue. Others have reported shorting issues over the years here with the Insulfrog, which is going out of production bit by bit. So just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean all those other people are hallucinating.
I'm HO scale.
Can you post your much easier install method?
Where specifically are you connecting 4 wires on the turnout?
Where are you soldering three wires on the switch machine?
Thanks.
I like Choice!
Just fish the Uni wire through and it works just fine without it. Later, one can hook up that wire if they choose
Especially choosing to run 0-4-0 switchers at slow speeds in yards.
TF