The only problem with momentary switches and Tortoises is that without some other circuitry, you have to remember to hold the button down until the Tortoise moves all the way. Unless you are in larger than HO scale and using non-hinged turnouts (where the point rails pivot - like Atlas, Peco, and most any other commercial turnout), you don't have to worry about the points moving if the Tortoise has no power.
However, to use pushbuttons, you will need to use the Tortoise contacts for the LEDs. Otherwise, LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor (no resistors needed) or parallel to the Tortoise (Rich's diagram - resistors needed) will of course go out as soon as you let go of the button.
With this simple circuit, you can still use LEDs in series with the Tortoise, with momentary pushbuttons to trigger the movement:
http://www.circuitous.ca/556Stall08.html
(the featured circuit where you cna order boards from Ronb control 4 tortoises, but the second schematic down is the basic component - once IC, 2 resistors, one capacitor, and a pair of pushbuttons. The big circuit is just 4 of them grouped together)
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker The only problem with momentary switches and Tortoises is that without some other circuitry, you have to remember to hold the button down until the Tortoise moves all the way. Unless you are in larger than HO scale and using non-hinged turnouts (where the point rails pivot - like Atlas, Peco, and most any other commercial turnout), you don't have to worry about the points moving if the Tortoise has no power. However, to use pushbuttons, you will need to use the Tortoise contacts for the LEDs. Otherwise, LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor (no resistors needed) or parallel to the Tortoise (Rich's diagram - resistors needed) will of course go out as soon as you let go of the button. With this simple circuit, you can still use LEDs in series with the Tortoise, with momentary pushbuttons to trigger the movement: http://www.circuitous.ca/556Stall08.html (the featured circuit where you cna order boards from Ronb control 4 tortoises, but the second schematic down is the basic component - once IC, 2 resistors, one capacitor, and a pair of pushbuttons. The big circuit is just 4 of them grouped together) --Randy
But why would anyone even consider using push buttons without a holding circuit?
The two relay circuits offered are cheap and easy, provide constant holding power to the motor.
My circuit can power lights without using extra wires or aux contacts.
And again, it allows lighted pushbuttons right in the track diagram that display the route.
Sheldon
So can that circuit. The 556 chip is 53 cents in single unit quantities, 2 resistors are 5 cents if you pay way too much, and the capacitor shouldn't be more than 5 or 10 cents. Rob always comes up with interesting alternative ways to use certain chips - the 556 is dual 555 timers in one package, but they have fairly high current drive capability, and are easily (the turnout circuit is SIMPLER than using them as timers) made to do things besides time delays.
You'd have to ask a friend of mine, he initially put pushbuttons on all his Tortoises in one section of his layout. I think it was because he didn;t have any toggles handy. ANd it wasn;t for multiple location control, there was just one set of buttons per Tortoise. I questioned him on it too, since I was the one wiring most of them up, but he was happy with that setup. He also had some old SS Limited screw drive type machines he reused, and didn't want to wire up cutout contacts to stop them at the end of the throw.
Eventually I guess it worked out, as he replaced most direct pushbutton (btw he ran an AC aux power line, and each Tortoise had a pair of diodes - actually TWO pair of diodes since he ran 2 LEDs from the contacts to indicate route, with bicolor LEDs in each one, so one was red, one green, then they flipped, hence the need for diodes with LEDs) with DS64 stationary decoders so he could automate operation, but retained the pushbuttons for local control without having to use the DCC throttle - an awkward task in every brand of DCC system, I love running trains on DCC but I can't figure out why someone would want to go through that, especially with a layout that was more than an oval and a siding or two. So while initially the pushbittons were a pain, in the end he didn't have to rip out the pushbuttons and install a toggle and fill in the extra hole in the fascia.
Randy, you misunderstand.
I power my lights not with contacts or the Tortoise power, I use the holding circuit hot on the pushbutton to light the light. If the relay for that route is held on, the light is on.
I will post the other drawing that shows that when I get home.
Once the control power hot and neutral are at a panel, it only takes one wire per button to activate and indicate status.
This schematic will control all three routes of a wye with only three push buttons.
Push the button for the desired route, all the turnouts will move as required to complete that route.
And the button of the selected route will light up.
Like any of these push button circuits, it can be repeated on multiple control panels as needed.
With some very minor changes in how the turnouts and lights are hooked up, and the possible additon of extra buttons, this same circuit can control any track arrangement with three routes, like a double crossover or two opposite hand crossovers in sequence like this diagram I posted earlier:
With all these circuits all turnouts reset to "normal" at power up and all turnouts necessary for the correct route change as required with the push of one button.
The goal is a better, easier user interface for the operator.
This drawing shows LED indicator lites in parallel with the relay coils. These LED's do not require any additional wires between the relay/switch machine location and the remote panels withthe push buttons. that wire, and the control power ground, are already at the push button panel.
If the route is selected, the coil is on, holding the switch motor in position, and lighting the LED.
When a different route is selected, that relay drops out, the polarity to the switch motor changes, the LED goes out, the relay for the new route is energized and sealed in, that LED lites, and the turnouts move as needed.
All with one button and a minimum number of wires.
Example - to control the wye, each three button control panel with lighted buttons would only require 5 wires from the relay board.
All the other wiring is jumpers at the relays, and feeder pairs to the Tortoise machines.
The actual power to the Tortoise machines is wired as shown on the lower part of this drawing, but without the lights shown.
A relay contact is simply used to reverse the polarity to the Tortoise, made easier with the dual voltage center tap power supply.
That circuit from Rob Paisley functions almost identically to your relay. Push one button can line more than one Tortoise, or you can do the crossover thing with one button on each straight route and one button to make it cross - multiple buttons for each throw direction, and they don't have to be in pairs. There are multiple ways to connect LEDs, be they discrete or part of an illuminated pushbutton. It's pretty universal, either directly indicating a turnout position or if the drives are used to run multiple Tortoises, indicate a route instead.
Small enough to hide dozens right behind the fascia control panel, only 2 wires run under the layout to the Tortoise motor terminals. Contacts on the Tortoise are not used for anything.
rrinker That circuit from Rob Paisley functions almost identically to your relay. Push one button can line more than one Tortoise, or you can do the crossover thing with one button on each straight route and one button to make it cross - multiple buttons for each throw direction, and they don't have to be in pairs. There are multiple ways to connect LEDs, be they discrete or part of an illuminated pushbutton. It's pretty universal, either directly indicating a turnout position or if the drives are used to run multiple Tortoises, indicate a route instead. Small enough to hide dozens right behind the fascia control panel, only 2 wires run under the layout to the Tortoise motor terminals. Contacts on the Tortoise are not used for anything. --Randy
Agreed, assuming you have local and central panels like I do, if you mount his boards at one of the control panels, you can save at least one of two long runs to light the indicator lights.
But, located near the turnout, his circuit will still require long runs just for the lights in addition to the pushbutton wires, wires that I don't need.
But for me it still gets back to the need for track power routing, frog power, and signal logic which are all turnout position driven, and the first two require high current switching.
And so if I still need to drive a relay with his circuit for those things, why not just use the relays? That was my conclusion 25 years ago, and no product or circuit since has offered any reason to do otherwise in my case.
And as we have discussed before, decentralizing the components is the key to minimizing and managing the wiring.
Again, I mount the relays near the track and turnouts they serve, and only need the power circuit and one wire per button between there and the control panels.
I'll add another vote for the Switchit solution, although the OP wants to go in different direction. There's also the Switch-8, which handles 8 tiurnouts...
But one feature of the Switchit which hasn't been mentioned is that it can handle powering 2 turnouts at once on each of the two circuits. This makes it especially useful if you have places where you want to use it as a route control, i.e. to open up a track at bothe ends. In cases like this, the expense of the Switchit can be written off against 4 turnouts.
I think the Switch-8 does the same thing, i.e. can actually control 16 turnouts when used for route controlling.. I use mine to control my double-ended staging yard, which I activate via NCE's Macro feature. I just can't remember exactly how I wired mine to confirm that.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Very few (hmm, are there ANY so limited?) stationary decoders can't handle 2 Tortoises on one ouput. It's when you get into some of the copies of the Tortoise that draw 2-3x the current that you run into issues driving one, let alone two, off a single output.
mlehmanBut one feature of the Switchit which hasn't been mentioned is that it can handle powering 2 turnouts at once on each of the two circuits
there's no reason a toggle switch can't control 2 or more turnouts. we frequently use a single toggle to control two Tortoise machines controlling a crossover. you just need to match the polarity of Tortoise machines
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The relays I use have 5 amp contacts, more Tortoise machines than you could ever want to hook to one control action..........