My lower and upper return loop staging track turnout ladders use Peco Code 100 Insulfrog turnouts. Each of these four turnout ladders is an occupancy detection zone so they are electrically isolated from the incoming track and the return loop and 5 staging tracks with double gapped track. Each of the turnouts have about 1/2" of track segment between the turnouts. I have provided a picture displaying where the track is double gapped (red lines) and where the existing track feeders (green dots) are in the turnout ladders. I'm wondering if I should add track feeders at the yellow dot locations? Additional locations as well? I assume more track feeders is always better, right? The 1/2" track sections are located between the green and yellow dots on the diagram.
Thanks for any advice.
Doug
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
Why would you need additional feeders? It's a continuous circuit.
But before we get away from ourselves, are you using PECO's power routing turnouts for the yard? The easiest way to tell is there is 0 Ohms resistence between the two inner rails beyond the frog.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffin Why would you need additional feeders? It's a continuous circuit. But before we get away from ourselves, are you using PECO's power routing turnouts for the yard? The easiest way to tell is there is 0 Ohms resistence between the two inner rails beyond the frog.
As I said they are Peco Insulfrog turnouts. They are not power routing AFAIK. I ask this question because I'm going to bury these turnouts under plywood ASAP so I would like to do anything I can now to ensure the best long term reliability.
Thanks.
No you do not need additional feeders in this case. the only suggestion i would make is to solder the rail joiners to the stub piece of track between your doulble gapped cuts and switch. This makes a longer term reliable joint that can feed power to your switches from your current feeders. No additional feeders should be necessary if this step is taken. I am assuming you are using metal rail joiners in this case between your stub tracks and the switchs as well as between switches.
One caution with the insulfrog switches that if you get a metal wheel flange that is slightly too wide it can cause a short if the bridges over the plastic part of the frog. I have found that a small dab of clear nail polish just over the point rails (~1/4") is sufficient to prevent this from happening and it lasts a very long time. The only time it will wear is if you use some sort of abrasive cleaner or acetone to clean tracks.
I use modified electrofrog switches for this reason. They have an all metal frog which I power through the contacts on my tortoise machines. I remove the power routing wires on the bottom of the switch and cut a gap right before the frog. i then solder a thin wire to each point rail so they are constantly powered and dont have to worry about power routing issues with dirt.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
Have a look at this:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
This is not relevant to your question but I too used Peco code 100 insulfrog turnouts and found that I had to shim the guard rails with.01 thick plastic to ensure that wheels on some of my rolling stock did not pick the frogs.
I asusme those are little short fitter section in there, which is why you show the extra set of feeders in yellow? If you're worried about the rail joiners, I'd just solder one set of them - either the end on the frog end of the turnout or the end on the point side of the next turnout. Then one set of feeders would reliably put power into botht he previous turnout and the next one in line.
Atlas turnouts have a larger dead area in the frog, but by putting feeders on all 3 legs like that, they were absolutely reliable, even after painting, and yes, I did paint in the hinge area, the only shiny part was the railhead.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
All I can say with peco insul frogs is if the turnout is thrown then you loose power to the main track, I do and actually today added feeders to my layout, if the turnout for instance is thrown to enter the TT area of my layout well the short bit of track looses power because of the points having the power so I added feeders on the short piece of track, same as your situation. Its the downfall of insulfrogs. Hope this helps.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
If you have not already attached them, flip the turnouts over. On the back there is a spot 3 ties up from where the switch points attach that allows you to solder a wire across the rails underneath so that the left rail and right rail are powered throughout the turnout from 2 feeders vice 4.
Allan Gartner explains...
If memory serves PECO has corrected the RP-25 wheel shorting issue at the frog (wheel tread is wide enough to contact both rails on the side opposite the points). Their newer turnouts have an enlarged insulating section if memory serves. Older turnouts can be fixed by treating them like an electrofrog at that point (cutting a gap, using insulated rail joiners, filing or scotch tape). I used exclusively PECO code 100 turnouts on by previous layout and had no issues of this type. All turnouts where purchased in 2014-2015.
Renegade1cOne caution with the insulfrog switches that if you get a metal wheel flange that is slightly too wide it can cause a short if the bridges over the plastic part of the frog. I have found that a small dab of clear nail polish just over the point rails (~1/4") is sufficient to prevent this from happening and it lasts a very long time.
I'm going to second that suggestion. I've got some black nail polish from the drug store. Do it as part of the installation - don't wait until you start getting unexplained shorts.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
BMMECNYCTheir newer turnouts have an enlarged insulating section if memory serves. Older turnouts can be fixed by treating them like an electrofrog at that point (cutting a gap, using insulated rail joiners, filing or scotch tape). I used exclusively PECO code 100 turnouts on by previous layout and had no issues of this type. All turnouts where purchased in 2014-2015.
As for the frog wanting to pick some of the wheels, instead of shimming the guardrails I file an ever so slight vertical taper on the point. Works great.
Mike
I had the same problem with wheel shorts on two of my insul frog Peco turnouts. I replaced them with electro frogs and problem solved.
There is no additional wiring required for the frog as it is powered from the points. Now pay attention to the instructions. Insulating joiners are required if the diverging route is not a stub end track otherwise you will get a short when the turnout is thrown.
Pat Bandy