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BlueRail Trains getting ready to ship first decoder

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, April 24, 2016 9:35 AM

rrebell
Almost all landlines are gone now and most companys make you go 4G, thats why I have a smart phone but they are cheap to run, unlimited everything for 4 phones, $100 a month, no extras.

Not really.  I still have a landline and the sound quality is MUCH better than a cell phone will ever be.  My wife and I both do have cell phones but only basic service.  The cost per month for my wife's phone is $15 for 300 min.  The cost for me is even cheaper with a $100 pay-as-you-go plan good for one year.  That fits our budget much better than $100/mon.

And, while smart phones are great, I still don't care to use one for operating my locomotives.  I do have a tablet with bluetooth and could use that, if I wanted.  I much prefer, however, to use my handheld Power Cab throttle.  And I don't need to keep looking at a screen to do that.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 1:16 AM

SouthPenn

The Bluerail sounds like a product designed for a very small market. I don't own a smart phone and I can't imagine having to lug my laptop around my layout. Maybe someone that has not converted to DCC would considered it.

 

If you don't have a smart phone now, you will. Almost all landlines are gone now and most companys make you go 4G, thats why I have a smart phone but they are cheap to run, unlimited everything for 4 phones, $100 a month, no extras.

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 1:13 AM

SouthPenn

 

 
rrebell
 
SouthPenn

 

 
Zumf

Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

 

 

 
RailPro does exactly what you are asking for.
 

 

 

$60 for non sound decoder plus $399 for starter kit to run one loco vs $75, you do the math.

 

 

 

It cost a lot more to install a new DCC system than $75.00.

And the RailPro starter set comes with a decoder and power supply, plus it has rechargable batterys. The decoder, power supply and batteries are extra with DCC systems. The cheapest Digitrax with radio control is $459.00 plus a power supply and plus a decoder.

You do the math.

 

Talking BlueRail system here, at present price $75 an engine, no other expences as almost all have a smart phone and a power supply.

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Posted by eSperanto on Saturday, April 23, 2016 11:25 PM

While there might be limited DCC converts to BlueRail, I believe there are plenty of opportunities in new/non-DCC markets: folks who havn't invested in DCC due to cost and complexity, operators of small or starter layouts, a younger generation in "touch" with smart/app control interfaces, and progressives using the latest technologies including dead rail. 

 
I'd place myself in all of the above categories. Though I might be a minority for now, there has to be growth here where DCC simply isn't going to penetrate. Don't construe this to read like "the end of DCC." Rather, opening of new markets to hopefully grow the hobby for the benefit of all. Smile
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Posted by SouthPenn on Saturday, April 23, 2016 9:20 PM

The Bluerail sounds like a product designed for a very small market. I don't own a smart phone and I can't imagine having to lug my laptop around my layout. Maybe someone that has not converted to DCC would considered it.

South Penn
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Posted by carl425 on Saturday, April 23, 2016 5:08 PM

SouthPenn
You do the math.

When I do the math, I value my time installing decoders at $1,000/hour.  Smile Let me know when Athearn, Atlas, Intermountain and Bowser start shipping locomotives with these decoders already installed. There are already plenty of tedious tasks in this hobby that I have to do in order to get to the fun stuff. This system would need to provide WAY more value than it does for me to take on another.

Besides, if it still gets its power from the rails I still have to clean them.  If they still have to be cleaned, I see no disadvantage to putting the control signals on the rails as well.

Do these decoders have a keep-alive type function?

Besides, am I the only one who thinks the controllers look really clunky?  I doubt I could operate one with only one hand.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Saturday, April 23, 2016 3:32 PM

rrebell
 
SouthPenn

 

 
Zumf

Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

 

 

 
RailPro does exactly what you are asking for.
 

 

 

$60 for non sound decoder plus $399 for starter kit to run one loco vs $75, you do the math.

 

It cost a lot more to install a new DCC system than $75.00.

And the RailPro starter set comes with a decoder and power supply, plus it has rechargable batterys. The decoder, power supply and batteries are extra with DCC systems. The cheapest Digitrax with radio control is $459.00 plus a power supply and plus a decoder.

You do the math.

South Penn
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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, April 23, 2016 3:14 PM

SouthPenn

 

 
Zumf

Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

 

 

 
RailPro does exactly what you are asking for.
 

$60 for non sound decoder plus $399 for starter kit to run one loco vs $75, you do the math.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Saturday, April 23, 2016 2:35 PM

Zumf

Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

 
RailPro does exactly what you are asking for.
South Penn
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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, April 23, 2016 12:01 PM

jrbernier

  The Bluerail decoder does not appear the same as the Bachmann decoder, but the function is the same from what I have read.  Sorta strange since Bluerail developed this for Bachmann.

  From the email, the Apple App should be available next week, and the Android App is in 'beta'.....but you can use the Bachmann Apple App to control a train with a Bluerail decoder.  No sound or consisting at this stage.

Jim

 

Bluerail needed volume to get the price doable, they partnered with Bachmann for this reason. Don't know how many Bachmann had made of their version but I am sure BlueRail's verson paled in numbers to Bachmann's order.

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, April 23, 2016 7:36 AM

fmilhaupt
I have to wonder just how many more devices and their related applications we can shove into the 2.4MHz wi-fi ...

new spectrum for WIFI, LTE-U and other technolgies is available in the U-NII spectrum above 5 gHz.   So capacity is increasing.

fmilhaupt
and Bluetooth frequency range before it gets too crowded for throttles to work properly in some situations.

the limited range is an advantage allowing more devices in a large crowded area to operating on the same frequencies

fmilhaupt
Throw in some of the convention center cell phone repeaters that play badly on harmonics outside of their designed frequency range, and things could be "fun."

FCC requirements limit this interference (ACI).   It's up to the devices tolerate it.    I know that the NCE wireless operates at a single frequency in the ISM band instead of being able to operate at different frequencies making it susceptable to stationary interference.

fmilhaupt
There are already comparable congestion situations in some apartment buildings and condos where it is difficult to set up your own unique/secured wi-fi access point.

this is a common issue in coporate environments.   Proper positioning and antenna orientation can maximize coverage which may be restricted in a single aprtment.

 

Wireless is a growing technology with it's own set of problems and solutions.

 

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Saturday, April 23, 2016 6:48 AM

I have to wonder just how many more devices and their related applications we can shove into the 2.4MHz wi-fi and Bluetooth frequency range before it gets too crowded for throttles to work properly in some situations.

Should this actually become an issue, some day I suspect that the first place we'd see it would be at one of the larger train shows, with numerous layouts, attendees carrying Bluetooth-enabled phones, and vendors using wi-fi for point-of-sale. Throw in some of the convention center cell phone repeaters that play badly on harmonics outside of their designed frequency range, and things could be "fun."

There are already comparable congestion situations in some apartment buildings and condos where it is difficult to set up your own unique/secured wi-fi access point.

In single-family homes, this probably wouldn't be so much of an issue.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
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Posted by jrbernier on Friday, April 22, 2016 9:16 PM

  The Bluerail decoder does not appear the same as the Bachmann decoder, but the function is the same from what I have read.  Sorta strange since Bluerail developed this for Bachmann.

  From the email, the Apple App should be available next week, and the Android App is in 'beta'.....but you can use the Bachmann Apple App to control a train with a Bluerail decoder.  No sound or consisting at this stage.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by gregc on Friday, April 22, 2016 7:15 PM

Zumf
Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

then it wouldn't be DCC (maybe RCC, radio command control)

DCC is pretty elagant.   It describes a method of commuication that requires a minimal of parts.   It's just timing of the track power polarity reversals.

You might argue that bluetooth, wifi or whatever components are cheap and small, but size is also precious when you consider that that space can be used for other things like sound components.   Especially in N-gauge.

On the otherhand, if you don't plan on having many locomotives, Bluerail may be the way to go because for the price of a DCC starter system ($150) you can get pair of Bluerail decoders ($70 each).    But I don't know if it makes sense if you have many locos or what sound in loco.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by passenger1955 on Friday, April 22, 2016 7:12 PM
BlueRail boards have all been through FCC. They have to because Bachmann licenses them for their locos.
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Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 22, 2016 6:36 PM

This runs on Bluetooth.

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, April 22, 2016 6:33 PM

Zumf

Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

 

 Digitrax was developing something like that but wisely stopped. Here's why: Model railroading isn;t that huge of a hobby. DCC is only a portion of all model railroaders. Wireless DCC (using th emanufacturer's radio throttles) is a subset of that. Wireless DCC uses who use touch screens is an even smaller subset of that. So they'd go through all that development work and certification (if it used radio frequency, it needs to be certified for FCC compliance to be sold in the US - Europe has similar rules. In the US, such testing is far from free) to be able to markety a product that MAYBE 10% of their customers would buy. All on top of the fact that with JMRI there's a universal solution that works on any DCC system AND with both Android and iOS devices. Which is completely free. I have an idea towards that that I want to experiment with once I have my workshop up and running, that would retain the universal nature of the JMRI WiThrottle solution and work with nearly any brand or model phone that can run the client software and would add a knob throttle, for all those who don;t like the idea of using a touch screen to control trains.

 The "no computer" argument is getting pretty weak. A Raspberry Pi has enough horsepower to run JMRI/WiThrottle. An old laptop with a dead battery (so it has to be pluggedion all the time) woudl work. Or one of the many refurb small form factor office computers that various retailers have - they are smaller than a pack a printer paper and come ready to use with Windows installed any everything for less than $200. Plus you cna use JMRI for more than just running the WiThrottle app.

                            --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 22, 2016 3:44 PM

From what I have seen, the control is much easier to set for lights and stuff, no complicated programing, also they will dead wire it for the same price which could be used for keep-alives instead. I would have bought already but Android is not relised yet, soon though as Google play and others have to aprove the final version.

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Posted by Zumf on Friday, April 22, 2016 3:30 PM

Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, April 22, 2016 2:59 PM

Zumf

Sounds a lot like RailPro. Yet another system that is not DCC compatible. I love all the technology offerings, and I'm sure they're great, but just like Railpro and DCS, I have too much money invested to start over in something that isn't DCC compatible.

It's a tough nut to crack since so many are heavily invested in DCC - might be good for folks who are lone wolfs and won't need to run on a DCC layout and haven't gotten too deep yet into DCC.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Zumf on Friday, April 22, 2016 2:57 PM

Sounds a lot like RailPro. Yet another system that is not DCC compatible. I love all the technology offerings, and I'm sure they're great, but just like Railpro and DCS, I have too much money invested to start over in something that isn't DCC compatible.

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 22, 2016 2:55 PM

Their are knob controlers by others that can be used.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, April 22, 2016 2:41 PM

I never heard of them so googled.  It looks like they are for use with smart phones and tablets, neither of which I am interested in using to control trains.  Do they support controllers with physical knobs?

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BlueRail Trains getting ready to ship first decoder
Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 22, 2016 1:48 PM

Just got an anouncment that BlueRail Trains is ready to ship first batch of decoders along with proving capability of acc. board in future. Admitly the first board is large for a lot of HO diesels but is fine for a steam tender.

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