Just got an anouncment that BlueRail Trains is ready to ship first batch of decoders along with proving capability of acc. board in future. Admitly the first board is large for a lot of HO diesels but is fine for a steam tender.
I never heard of them so googled. It looks like they are for use with smart phones and tablets, neither of which I am interested in using to control trains. Do they support controllers with physical knobs?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Their are knob controlers by others that can be used.
Sounds a lot like RailPro. Yet another system that is not DCC compatible. I love all the technology offerings, and I'm sure they're great, but just like Railpro and DCS, I have too much money invested to start over in something that isn't DCC compatible.
Zumf Sounds a lot like RailPro. Yet another system that is not DCC compatible. I love all the technology offerings, and I'm sure they're great, but just like Railpro and DCS, I have too much money invested to start over in something that isn't DCC compatible.
It's a tough nut to crack since so many are heavily invested in DCC - might be good for folks who are lone wolfs and won't need to run on a DCC layout and haven't gotten too deep yet into DCC.
Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.
From what I have seen, the control is much easier to set for lights and stuff, no complicated programing, also they will dead wire it for the same price which could be used for keep-alives instead. I would have bought already but Android is not relised yet, soon though as Google play and others have to aprove the final version.
Zumf Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.
Digitrax was developing something like that but wisely stopped. Here's why: Model railroading isn;t that huge of a hobby. DCC is only a portion of all model railroaders. Wireless DCC (using th emanufacturer's radio throttles) is a subset of that. Wireless DCC uses who use touch screens is an even smaller subset of that. So they'd go through all that development work and certification (if it used radio frequency, it needs to be certified for FCC compliance to be sold in the US - Europe has similar rules. In the US, such testing is far from free) to be able to markety a product that MAYBE 10% of their customers would buy. All on top of the fact that with JMRI there's a universal solution that works on any DCC system AND with both Android and iOS devices. Which is completely free. I have an idea towards that that I want to experiment with once I have my workshop up and running, that would retain the universal nature of the JMRI WiThrottle solution and work with nearly any brand or model phone that can run the client software and would add a knob throttle, for all those who don;t like the idea of using a touch screen to control trains.
The "no computer" argument is getting pretty weak. A Raspberry Pi has enough horsepower to run JMRI/WiThrottle. An old laptop with a dead battery (so it has to be pluggedion all the time) woudl work. Or one of the many refurb small form factor office computers that various retailers have - they are smaller than a pack a printer paper and come ready to use with Windows installed any everything for less than $200. Plus you cna use JMRI for more than just running the WiThrottle app.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This runs on Bluetooth.
ZumfReally, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power.
then it wouldn't be DCC (maybe RCC, radio command control)
DCC is pretty elagant. It describes a method of commuication that requires a minimal of parts. It's just timing of the track power polarity reversals.
You might argue that bluetooth, wifi or whatever components are cheap and small, but size is also precious when you consider that that space can be used for other things like sound components. Especially in N-gauge.
On the otherhand, if you don't plan on having many locomotives, Bluerail may be the way to go because for the price of a DCC starter system ($150) you can get pair of Bluerail decoders ($70 each). But I don't know if it makes sense if you have many locos or what sound in loco.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The Bluerail decoder does not appear the same as the Bachmann decoder, but the function is the same from what I have read. Sorta strange since Bluerail developed this for Bachmann.
From the email, the Apple App should be available next week, and the Android App is in 'beta'.....but you can use the Bachmann Apple App to control a train with a Bluerail decoder. No sound or consisting at this stage.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I have to wonder just how many more devices and their related applications we can shove into the 2.4MHz wi-fi and Bluetooth frequency range before it gets too crowded for throttles to work properly in some situations.
Should this actually become an issue, some day I suspect that the first place we'd see it would be at one of the larger train shows, with numerous layouts, attendees carrying Bluetooth-enabled phones, and vendors using wi-fi for point-of-sale. Throw in some of the convention center cell phone repeaters that play badly on harmonics outside of their designed frequency range, and things could be "fun."
There are already comparable congestion situations in some apartment buildings and condos where it is difficult to set up your own unique/secured wi-fi access point.
In single-family homes, this probably wouldn't be so much of an issue.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
fmilhauptI have to wonder just how many more devices and their related applications we can shove into the 2.4MHz wi-fi ...
new spectrum for WIFI, LTE-U and other technolgies is available in the U-NII spectrum above 5 gHz. So capacity is increasing.
fmilhaupt and Bluetooth frequency range before it gets too crowded for throttles to work properly in some situations.
the limited range is an advantage allowing more devices in a large crowded area to operating on the same frequencies
fmilhauptThrow in some of the convention center cell phone repeaters that play badly on harmonics outside of their designed frequency range, and things could be "fun."
FCC requirements limit this interference (ACI). It's up to the devices tolerate it. I know that the NCE wireless operates at a single frequency in the ISM band instead of being able to operate at different frequencies making it susceptable to stationary interference.
fmilhauptThere are already comparable congestion situations in some apartment buildings and condos where it is difficult to set up your own unique/secured wi-fi access point.
this is a common issue in coporate environments. Proper positioning and antenna orientation can maximize coverage which may be restricted in a single aprtment.
Wireless is a growing technology with it's own set of problems and solutions.
jrbernier The Bluerail decoder does not appear the same as the Bachmann decoder, but the function is the same from what I have read. Sorta strange since Bluerail developed this for Bachmann. From the email, the Apple App should be available next week, and the Android App is in 'beta'.....but you can use the Bachmann Apple App to control a train with a Bluerail decoder. No sound or consisting at this stage. Jim
SouthPenn Zumf Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power. RailPro does exactly what you are asking for.
rrebell SouthPenn Zumf Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power. RailPro does exactly what you are asking for. $60 for non sound decoder plus $399 for starter kit to run one loco vs $75, you do the math.
$60 for non sound decoder plus $399 for starter kit to run one loco vs $75, you do the math.
It cost a lot more to install a new DCC system than $75.00.
And the RailPro starter set comes with a decoder and power supply, plus it has rechargable batterys. The decoder, power supply and batteries are extra with DCC systems. The cheapest Digitrax with radio control is $459.00 plus a power supply and plus a decoder.
You do the math.
SouthPennYou do the math.
When I do the math, I value my time installing decoders at $1,000/hour. Let me know when Athearn, Atlas, Intermountain and Bowser start shipping locomotives with these decoders already installed. There are already plenty of tedious tasks in this hobby that I have to do in order to get to the fun stuff. This system would need to provide WAY more value than it does for me to take on another.
Besides, if it still gets its power from the rails I still have to clean them. If they still have to be cleaned, I see no disadvantage to putting the control signals on the rails as well.
Do these decoders have a keep-alive type function?
Besides, am I the only one who thinks the controllers look really clunky? I doubt I could operate one with only one hand.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
The Bluerail sounds like a product designed for a very small market. I don't own a smart phone and I can't imagine having to lug my laptop around my layout. Maybe someone that has not converted to DCC would considered it.
While there might be limited DCC converts to BlueRail, I believe there are plenty of opportunities in new/non-DCC markets: folks who havn't invested in DCC due to cost and complexity, operators of small or starter layouts, a younger generation in "touch" with smart/app control interfaces, and progressives using the latest technologies including dead rail.
SouthPenn rrebell SouthPenn Zumf Honestly, I don't know why many of the existing DCC companies don't release apps for tablets and smart phones that would work directly with their wireless systems, instead of having to go through JMRI. I suppose they are scared of losing sales of the control units. It seems silly to have an Ipad talking to a PC talking to the base unit. Really, there's no reason why DCC shouldn't have evolved already to controlling the decoders directly, and just using the track for power. RailPro does exactly what you are asking for. $60 for non sound decoder plus $399 for starter kit to run one loco vs $75, you do the math. It cost a lot more to install a new DCC system than $75.00. And the RailPro starter set comes with a decoder and power supply, plus it has rechargable batterys. The decoder, power supply and batteries are extra with DCC systems. The cheapest Digitrax with radio control is $459.00 plus a power supply and plus a decoder. You do the math.
SouthPenn The Bluerail sounds like a product designed for a very small market. I don't own a smart phone and I can't imagine having to lug my laptop around my layout. Maybe someone that has not converted to DCC would considered it.
rrebellAlmost all landlines are gone now and most companys make you go 4G, thats why I have a smart phone but they are cheap to run, unlimited everything for 4 phones, $100 a month, no extras.
Not really. I still have a landline and the sound quality is MUCH better than a cell phone will ever be. My wife and I both do have cell phones but only basic service. The cost per month for my wife's phone is $15 for 300 min. The cost for me is even cheaper with a $100 pay-as-you-go plan good for one year. That fits our budget much better than $100/mon.
And, while smart phones are great, I still don't care to use one for operating my locomotives. I do have a tablet with bluetooth and could use that, if I wanted. I much prefer, however, to use my handheld Power Cab throttle. And I don't need to keep looking at a screen to do that.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage rrebell Almost all landlines are gone now and most companys make you go 4G, thats why I have a smart phone but they are cheap to run, unlimited everything for 4 phones, $100 a month, no extras. Not really. I still have a landline and the sound quality is MUCH better than a cell phone will ever be. My wife and I both do have cell phones but only basic service. The cost per month for my wife's phone is $15 for 300 min. The cost for me is even cheaper with a $100 pay-as-you-go plan good for one year. That fits our budget much better than $100/mon. And, while smart phones are great, I still don't care to use one for operating my locomotives. I do have a tablet with bluetooth and could use that, if I wanted. I much prefer, however, to use my handheld Power Cab throttle. And I don't need to keep looking at a screen to do that. Tom
rrebell Almost all landlines are gone now and most companys make you go 4G, thats why I have a smart phone but they are cheap to run, unlimited everything for 4 phones, $100 a month, no extras.
I also have a cell phone and a land line. My cell phone is pay as you go and I spend about $100.00 a year. My wife spends about $200.00 a year for hers. Neither are smart phones.
I'll stick with my Power Pro throttle.
Hey, new stuff is not for everybody and some things depend on where you live and budget. I never liked DCC because of lost signals so was putting off dead rail till I had a finished layout (finished so to speak, most track in and basic scenery). I was hopping it would evolve and it has but the new batterys are not here yet, they should have been and are just starting to appear. On a side note, do you really think Tesla is building a mega battery factory just to produce old style batterys, I don't think so.
rrebellHey, new stuff is not for everybody and some things depend on where you live and budget.
There are legimate reasons to dislike this stuff other than the fact that it's new and/or expensive. I've been a smartphone user since day 1 - I even have a couple Droids and iPhones in a drawer that I could dedicate to this function but I see no reason to jump to bluetooth to control trains.
rrebellI never liked DCC because of lost signals
Do you really believe bluetooth is going to fix this issue?
Remember also that with the DCC systems, if wireless is having a bad hair day, you can always plug in and run. What's your backup plan when wireless is all you have?
is Bluerail or any other type of direct wireless locomotive control bluetooth/wifi, by itself, a solution looking for a problem. (Dead-rail requires more than just wireless).
of course some people will like the "coolness" of it and are willing to pay more. In time, the marketplace will make its judgement.
rrebell I was hopping it would evolve and it has but the new batterys are not here yet, they should have been and are just starting to appear.
In the meantime, folks in the bay area have been wirelessly operating multiple trains independently on many layouts with DCC. And will continue to do so while you continue to wait. Different goals, different choices.
Dozens and dozens of layouts in the bay area operate without this being a problem.
Bluetooth propagation directly to the tiny antennas changing orientation in moving engines with people in the aisles of a larger layout may result in problems of its own. (This is a little worse at Blue Rail's 2.4 GHz than at other systems' 900 MHz)
Edit: Blue Rail's strategy for true consisting has yet to be revealed, so that may also be an issue for larger layouts with multiple trains and operators active at once. The whole pairing (and then unpairing) issue for multiple engines and multiple controllers is a challenge in Bluetooth. (Not a problem for DCC since it is solved by the addressing built-in to the DCC specification)
rrebellOn a side note, do you really think Tesla is building a mega battery factory just to produce old style batterys, I don't think so.
Actually, that's exactly their plan -- to build the same type of batteries that go into their cars today for quite some time. In any case, I don't think miniature batteries for toy trains are high on the agenda at Tesla.
For now, batteries of sufficient capacity won't fit in most HO or smaller trains with Blue Rail's current overly large receivers (and certainly not with on-board sound -- if Blue Rail ever delivers this).
Because Blue Rail thus far is an app developer, their hardware is based on off-the-shelf general-purpose Bluetooth radio modules. These are more expensive than purpose-built decoders or receivers because they include capabilities unneeded for model railroading. And they are larger and more power-hungry than the custom integrated hardware delivered by DCC decoder manufacturers and true Dead Rail suppliers like RailPro.
Efficient on-the-rails recharging remains to be addressed by a number of Dead Rail suppliers. This seems like a marketing error to me, especially since DCC or DC on the rails would be a great way to do this (even if reverse loops and frogs remained unpowered). This would also be a fine transition strategy for a mix of systems. And the non-standard approaches taken by Dead Rail suppliers are not helping market acceptance.
Perhaps Blue Rail will build or contract for more hardware design capabilities. Batteries will eventually become smaller, someday. Perhaps Elon Musk will take up model railroading. Many things are possible, not all things are worth waiting for (for many of us, at least).
Blue Rail's products are a niche solution today that may grow into something more. But there are lots of competitive alternatives.
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Funny, I have been wireless from the get go with DC Train Engineer, only problem I have ever had was the batteries went dead in one of the controlers and this is all second hand stuff. As far as batteries go we are not talking batteries for model trains but lots of other things need batteries like phones. Since new battery tecnoligy is here, they just need to manufacture in bulk to bring the cost down, the only questiion is which of the dozen or so new designs turned out to have all the right mojo and be easy to manufacture.