So I have waited to post anything concerning this for a number of reasons. Although I'm not new to model railroading, I'm pretty new to the whole DCC thing. And over the last year of my dad and I building our layout, I have learned ENORMOUS amounts! A lot of that information here on the forums. So I wanted to have some experience under my belt before spouting off my new found excitement for a company.
There is one thing I have learned more than any other in my DCC crash course this year:
Loksound decoders are some of the best products I have purchased on this railroad and also have by far the best customer service I have EVER received on any product before in this or any of my other 10,000 hobbies!
I tried Soundtraxx decoders. While I don't feel the need to bash any company or product, they were good. They ran fine, sounded good. But the Loksound is just better. Slow speed, sounds, programming and overall, ready to go out of the box when hooked up.
My push to write this little kudos to Loksound came after installing my final decoder on loco #28. I installed Loksound Selects on my SD70's, MP15AC, C44-9W and my GP38-2's. The only two I was happy with was the C44-9W's and the GP38-2's. They were dialed from the start. Out of the box, hook them up and the sound notching(my biggest gripe in all the decoders) was spot on. Perfect ramp up of the motor sound in alignment with speed of the loco! You can't get much more realistic and perfect than they have it in my opinion. The problem came with the MP15AC and the SD70's though. Both sucked as far as sound notching. The MP15AC sounded like it had 3 notches and I was doing 54mph by the time I hit the second notch. And I don't want manual notching, so don't even go there. Personally I don't want to have to juggle more buttons on my already overwhelmed controller and try to match sound to my speed. In my opinion all the decoders should have the sound notching dialed in fromt he start if nothing else. And trust me. I played with alllllll the options. Momentum, various CV's, throttle curve.....everything. Still couldn't get it perfect.
So after an email to Matthew from Loksound....in which he replied to in less than 2 minutes.....he said it sounded like I had some old sound files. He asked if I have the programmer(which I do and is another genius Loksound item) he wanted to send me updated files. 2 minutes later I had the files.
After getting home tonight and updating the sound to the new files I can say I am 1000% sold on Loksound. They are PERFECT! The notching is awesome, the motor sounds, all the ambient sounds. They are everything anyone could want in a decoder! I can't think of anything I would change concerning the notching at all. It. Is. Perfection!
Now I'm not selling anyone anything here. Nor am I getting free decoders from Loksound now. I just wanted to tell any of the newer people getting into DCC or those looking for a decoder period to try Loksound. I have never been happier with a product than I am with these guys. And a killer product combined with top notch customer service?!?!?!
The programmer is also epic as I mentioned. Easy to use, foolproof, easy to adjust and test. They really have made the process of changing CV's easy and very painless.
Ok, rant over. Hope you guys give Loksound a valid look......trust me. You won't be disappointed!
Have a great night!
5150WS6:
You will find lots of people here who fully agree with you, including me.
5150WS6Hope you guys give Loksound a valid look......trust me. You won't be disappointed!
Well said!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Bummer, there isn;t a "what he said" emoticon....
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi Randy!
I kind of figured that you would chime in!
"Great minds think alike". So do ours!
I'm starting to feel like I am preaching about Loksound. I wonder how many converts we have?
My roster has about 30 or so Loksound engines. Mostly PAs and F-7s since I primarily model the mid 1950s. However, I like to occasionally run some modern stuff, F-40PHs, SDP-45s, SD-70s and the like.
When the Kato Amtrak P-42s came along I bought a pair with Loksound. These weren't my first Loksound engines but for some reason, maybe it was the sound file or my familiarity with those particular GEs, like you, I really was amazed at the sound quality, running characteristics and the way the prime mover loads and then responds to train inertia.
Like you, I have purchased many sound decoders from others but the Loksound— with the ability to install upgrades or completely change a sound project—is truly amazing. I also have the Lokprogrammer and it has paid for itself several times over!
Next week my FL-9 arrives from Rapido, Loksound, of course. I'm really looking forward to trying that engine out.
Regards, Ed
Yes, I love these decoders as well. Small enough to fit in N scale.
Yes I couldn't agree more with all you guys are saying as well. I just really can't think of anything that Loksound could improve. Every issue I've had or found they have corrected with a new file or download. It's awesome!And Ed, I'm so with you on the programmer. That is another amazing product that makes things sooooo easy and less "code-ish" and just makes programming the locos a breeze! I honestly can't understand how someone with more than 2 locos wouldn't benefit from the programmer. I think I downloaded sound and new files to 9 loco's last night! And it was painless, worked flawlessly and allowed me to work on other stuff as it did what it needed to!
I think also the reason I'm so sold on Loksound, in addition to the amazing slow speeds, great sounds, perfect sound notching....is the customer service. Any issue I've had Matthew has been on it to get it fixed and taken care of. He has always answered questions quickly and always is willing to help. That in addition to everything else has made me a lifer for Loksound.
Not only can I not see any way they could improve what they already have, but I can't see me going looking anywhere else for decoder needs!
Ok, I'll stop now. :) Just super happy to be having an operating session tomorrow with my dad and having all my locos working absolutely perfect! :)
QUite a few I think, between those of us posting here and Matt's efforts in running the US branch of the company. If you aren't on the Yahoo group for ESU - he's very active on there and active in communicating concerns from modelers to the engineers who write the decoder firmware and getting things done. They are constantly updating and refining issued identified by users. The easily updated firmware (if you have a Lokprogrammer) makes turnaround on this stuff very quick. Plus they are out getting new recordings prepared for better and better sound files. Win-win.
I'll have to check the yahoo page out Randy. It's cool to know they are so active in keeping things up and right and current. Pretty awesome. Technology kicks butt! :)
I've done about 20 of the Selects in converting HO locos. It's a fun part of the hobby for me. I second all the comments on sound quality, motor control, breadth of sound library. Also the usefulness of the LokSound yahoo group for advice on particulars. I've found customer service excellent, also (Abbie in PA usually answers).
I bit the bullet and recently added a LokProgrammer. All went well (added a program track booster as well). It's nice to be able to change a decoder file; e.g., changing an E-unit sound file to the new dual motor one.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Hi,I have one question. I've been using a lot od decoders in my models for last few years. I also have some LokSound decoders (both OEM and full market versions) and I really appreciate them for very good sounds. However, there is one thing which annoy me very much. Every other brand products are able to run models on a little dirty tracks. If a model has a problem with picking power from a track you can notice that a model doesn't run smoothly and "jumps" a bit. If you start your engine a very short break of power is not a problem for a model. It still will be going to accelerate (with a little jump of course).
With LokSound it is not possible to start a model. The decoder resets every time the power is missing even for a milisecond. With every reset of decoder the whole starting sequence is being played. Next, a model tries to move a little and again reset. I noticed this problem with my every model with LokSound decoder. Other models run smoothly on the same tracks. For models equipped with LokSound tracks and wheels has to be perfect clean.
Have you noticed this problem? I quess that the only solution is to add a power pack (capacitor)?
LokSound, and LokPilot are the upper echelon decoders on the market, in my humble opinion. The amount of flexebility incorporated into these jewels seem to make your options limitless.
I can only recommend the purchase of the LokProgrammer which will make opening these options simple and unlock others you would not even think of.
I am looking forward to the introduction of the ESU SignalPilot slated for sometime this year.
All the best.
Reinhard
Joe F
Arras,I've actually had the same issue with both Loksound as well as the Tsunami decoders. Unless the track is completely spotless both decoders can skip and stop and have issues. Any blinking or flashing of the headlight drives me insane. LOL!
Personally, I have installed the capacitors in all my locos and do from the start. Because for me the realistic look of a light that flickers even once.....completely ruins the experience for me. Since installing the power packs there have been no issues. I use an NCE capacitor set with my Loksound decoders and love them.It's an extra expense and two extra solders, but well worth it in my book.
Mike
I keep my track clean (though I don't do anything special - the only cleaning it gets is after painting the rail sides, some always gets on the railhead. One layotu was in an unfinished basement, the last one was in a spare bedroom with carpet and all that), and I have plenty of power feeds (though many will tell me I'm doing it wrong there as well - all my feeders are rail joiners with wires soldered to the bottom, and I only solder the actual rails together on curves). I didn;t even power the frogs on the last layout, they were Atlas #4's and all my locos went through at slow speed without stalling - I DID have wires attached to the frogs ready to hook up power if needed, but they ended up just hanging down under the layout. Despite 2 dogs and 2 cats, I haven't had power issues. There is no smoking allowed in my house, smoking friends who come over have to go outside to smoke, so that certainly helps.
I haven't added keep alives to any of my locos, the motor only ones don;t flicker their headlights, and the sound ones don't reset, at least not enough to be annoying. Once in a rare while, and that's when the layout and/or loco has sat unused for some time. I will probbaly put tem in the locos I use at club shows though, our layout is modular and short connector tracks are used between the sections for most of the older parts of the layout. Every once in a while the joiners are repalced, but most of the time they fit rather loosely and it does cause headligh tblinks and stalls - every train is run with at least 2 power units just to make sure they don't stall the whole train on these connections. So those I may put keep alives in just for smoother running - but my home layouts have been problem free in this regard so I never bothered. It doesn't really solve anything, it just masks the symptoms, be it dirty track, dirty wheels, dirty pickups, or insufficient feeders.
Dang you must have done it right Randy! I'm not sure why I was having so much trouble. I've got two feeders per switch, and one per piece of track. And some of the parts were soldered together. Just wanted to make sure I had good connections. But even with my newer and especially my older loco's I was having stuttering and flashing of the headlights. Granted some of my locos needed a good wheel cleaning and I finally got some good track cleaner set up and it got better. But still not 100%. So I went ahead and put in the keep alives. :) Just to keep things going! To me it's a cheap investment for a little piece of mind for whatever was causing the stuttering and flashing!
I buy Digitrax SDXH decoders because I'm a cheap$kate, but all of my high end engines have LokSound. They are amazing.
5150WS6 Dang you must have done it right Randy! I'm not sure why I was having so much trouble. I've got two feeders per switch, and one per piece of track. And some of the parts were soldered together. Just wanted to make sure I had good connections. But even with my newer and especially my older loco's I was having stuttering and flashing of the headlights. Granted some of my locos needed a good wheel cleaning and I finally got some good track cleaner set up and it got better. But still not 100%. So I went ahead and put in the keep alives. :) Just to keep things going! To me it's a cheap investment for a little piece of mind for whatever was causing the stuttering and flashing!
I have 3 pairs of feeders per turnout - each leg of an Atlas turnout gets feeders to both rails. That I think helps a lot.
I'm pretty sure that my problems are not related to power connections. I have a power feed on every separate piece o track. I don't trust rail joiners so every turnout and flex track has a separate connection.
I admit that my layout might be a little dusty right know. I work on the layout in a second room so don't clean track on layout in the first room very often. I will do it when I join two parts of layout together.
However, I sometimes want to relax running trains instead of construction work on the layout. I have no problem with models equipped with Tsunami, QSI, ProtoSound decoders at all. Even without cleaning tracks.
If I want to run models with LokSounds problems begins. They are extremely sensitive. Removing dust from track with a cloth soaked with alcohol helps.
The biggest problems I had with Athearn models - F59PHI and AMD103. It seems that these models have wheels made from metal which tarnish very quickly. Every time I wanted to run these models I had to clean wheels.
It was madness so I installed capacitors and problems disapeared.
Arras88:
Did you use Loksound's PowerPack keep alives or did you install your own capacitors?
If you used your own, have you had any problems with programming or otherwise?
Thanks.
Dave,
I installed my own capacitors. According to the ESU manual.
No problems with programming at all. Everything works as before. Finally models run smoothly even on step one. I couldn't start Athearn models without capacitors.
Arras88The biggest problems I had with Athearn models
I have had the very same problem with some Athearn F3s and F7s. It seems that some of the trucks were designed poorly and didn't allow the axle end to fully engage the bronze pick-up strip completely.
Go to the links at the bottom of the replys from Mark and Frank of this thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/228382.aspx
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks Arras88:
If I can grill you some more, what are you using to program your decoders? The reason I ask is that there is a warning on the bottom of page 25 in the Loksound V4.0 manual that says the capacitor must be disconnected before programming with the Lokprogrammer. It doesn't say if the capacitor has to be disconnected for all programming with any command station. Your experience suggests that the warning applies to the Lokprogrammer only.
I'm going to ask the question in the ESU forum as well.
Thanks
Dave you are right. I didn't notice this warning earlier.
But, I don't have the Lokprogrammer. I just use my command station DCS200 - from Digitrax Super Chief set. I do it even on main track (not programming track). I was able to programm addresses and all CV for all my models without any problem.
I would be grateful for an answers from ESU forum about it. Is it really necessary to disconnect the capacitor before programming?
I am going to buy the Lokprogrammer in the future and this warning is a little scary.
Ed:Thank you for the link. It is exactly what is wrong in design of the truck. The conductivity between wheels and "square bearings on the axles that fit in a square notch in the steel sides of the truck" is poor. I upgraded it a bit by adding my own wires. It helped for DC but wasn't enough for Loksound decoders. Another issue is material from which wheels are made in older models. This metal covers with some kind of coating very quickly. I am not sure if it is a corrosion. But every few weeks I clean wheels and there are marks of something on a cloth which I use for cleaning.
Get yourself some replacement wheels from NWSL. The old Atheran BB locos used sintered iron wheels - iron powder forced into a mold at high pressure. It's rough, which is great for tractive effort, but it collects dirt. Nicek silver or at least nickel plated wheels as smooth, so you lose some tractive effort, but the smoth surface stays cleaner longer and you gain superior electrical pickup.
You can also probably get the wheels direct from Athearn, since the new Genesis and RTR locos come with these types of wheels instead of the old sintered iron.
I use the Loksound programmer with the Loksound decoders as well as the no halt units/capacitors.
I saw the warning as well and initially had issues when programming. The way I've found to get it work is after you write to the card you have to pull the loco off the programming track for 15-20 seconds to set. Then back on the track to test. Works flawlessly and I've had no issues since finding the secret to make it work!
The programmer is another flawless piece of excellence from Loksound! Let me know if you have any questions conc programming!
Mike:
Thanks for that tip.
Just to clarify, you are using your own capacitors and not the Loksound PowerPack - is that correct?
Negative sir. I'm actually using NCE no halt units. They were cheaper and Bryan and Streamlined recommended them. But they are just a simple two wire connection just like any setup you would build. Just decided to save some money and I like NCE stuff.
Thanks Mike:
I have looked at the NCE units but I had two of the Loksound Power Packs on hand so I used those first. I also just discovered that I had purchased the Loksound recommended size capacitors and other bits for a DIY keep alive some time ago (great memory eh!) so I'm going to give them a try.
Appreciate your help!
Anytime Dave! I initially was going for the Loksound version and then the guy I get all my stuff from recommended I save some money as the NCE's work just as good. Personally I think they are all the same pretty much no matter who you go with. They just have the one function so there's not a whole lot to them.
And good luck! Keep us posted!
The ESU Power Packs have three wires. That third wire is a control wire which electronically takes the capacitor out of the circuit for error-free programming.
When I use TCS Stay Alive modules, I just install a micro-mini slide switch under the bottom of the chassis to cut the capacitor in or out of the circuit.
Mark.
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