well guys the weather is cracking and with it my responsibilities so work will slow on the railroad from fulltime to part time . I have a answer and question you asked before for my amp needs and daytime it is 10 amps and night time with this included 46 amps for the accesories only no train or switches they will have there own power sources. By the way to avoid super bright lights or burn out of them i would prefer dimmer lights and please see my earlier posts on this subject for further details. I had a idea tossed at me of a older lionel power pack for this need but how much amperage on the ac side do they put out on the normal power packs? I need suggestions guys thanks. jfb
I run all my accessory lighting with 12-volt power supplies. You can get 5-amp, 12-volt DC supplies on eBay for a few dollars. The last one I got came direct from China, free shipping. It arrived in less than a week and works fine. I think it cost about $7.
These supplies to NOT have circuit breakers. If you overload them or short them out for too long, they will blow their single-use internal fuse and die. So, go to Radio Shack and buy fuse holders and fuses, rated for the same current as the supply or a little less for safety.
Most of my incandescent lights are rated at 16 volts. By running them at 12 volts, the give off a more pleasant and warm glow and they will last far longer.
I find that DC is more convenient than AC for these things. It's better for your LEDs. I also use mine for Miller Engineering animated signs by adding resistors to get the voltage right, and for my grade crossing circuits which want 12 volts DC.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I added up everything with a lot of research and work like I said this layout is exstensive and well detailed already very little is left to do but super fascia work and I did it all by myself period. I did it with blood sweat tears early mornings and a LOT OF DISCIPLINE! I did this with a train swap meet supplying the older great ho accesories that i collected over time wether i needed them at that moment or not it was having a mental picture of the finished product at all times and no blue print on paper. The almost finished product is beautiful from a functional and realistic point of view no fluff anf fantasy here just straight southside hard nosed working class realities. it keeps you straight and honest. I like action period like a actually maneuvering steel mill and smoke stacks from all of the buildings on the layout.
RR_MelWow! I just thought my layout took a lot of current for lighting. I’m hoping there is a mistake with your figures.
I agree with that. My layout takes 3 sides of a 24x24 foot room and has lots of streetlights and interior illumination. I run most of it on three 5-amp supplies.
Wow, that's almost insane - even if they are 30ma incandescent bulbs, 48 amps is over 1500 of them!
12V 10 amp power supplies are practically a dime a dozen on eBay, about 6 or 7 of those with the load distributed should do it - you don't load them to 100%, you want to stick around 75-80% peak load.
In comparison, at 12V, with 1K resistors, 46 amps is over 5000 LEDs.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
the lights on average take .one third amps a piece at full brightness i would prefer to get them dimmer overall that would be 144 lights at full brightness it is in the math just remember that i am in series also. I am using atlas 205 connectors for a hook up point. I finally found a marked older package and did the math if there calculations for there products are wrong there is nothing i can do about that. I have exstensive light wiring on this layout and everything is individually wired for safety and future testing if needed in small wiring harnesses at least i know what the quality is of my connections with as little resistance as possible. cars have the same circuits just add up the needed amps and buy a alternator accordingly and make sure the wiring can handle the loads and it works period.
jfb...and smoke stacks from all of the buildings on the layout.
Are these operating stacks with smoke generators? Even so, the biggest of them are still under 1 amp, with most being considerable less.
jfb...I have a answer and question you asked before for my amp needs and daytime it is 10 amps and night time with this included 46 amps for the accesories only...
I found a previous post you had on this subject (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/254430/2843533.aspx#2843533), and unless you left an awful lot of stuff out, I don't see how you could possibly need that much current.
jfbthe lights on average take .one third amps a piece at full brightness
What kind of bulbs are you using? Randy is right. Typical grain-of-wheat incandescent bulbs like the ones from Miniatronics use about 30 milliamps, not 300 as your numbers indicate.
Most of the power used by incandescent bulbs ends up as heat. If you put 300 MA bulbs into a structure, you're going to melt plastic and maybe even set paper or wood on fire.
Unless your bulbs are very different from what most of us use, I smell a slipped decimal point in your calculations. And, I hope so. That much power for structure illumination could actually be dangerous.
jfbthe lights on average take .one third amps a piece at full brightness i would prefer to get them dimmer overall that would be 144 lights at full brightness it is in the math just remember that i am in series also.
Ok, in the previouos thread you said 38 lights. How many do you have in each series (in the previous thread you said five in one post and four in another)? Having them in series will reduce the total current draw. For example, if you have three one third amp lights in series at full brightness, then they will only draw a total of one third amp, not one amp. Additionally, if they are not getting their full voltage because of being in series, they will draw even less.
jfb the lights on average take .one third amps a piece at full brightness i would prefer to get them dimmer overall that would be 144 lights at full brightness it is in the math just remember that i am in series also. I am using atlas 205 connectors for a hook up point. I finally found a marked older package and did the math if there calculations for there products are wrong there is nothing i can do about that. I have exstensive light wiring on this layout and everything is individually wired for safety and future testing if needed in small wiring harnesses at least i know what the quality is of my connections with as little resistance as possible. cars have the same circuits just add up the needed amps and buy a alternator accordingly and make sure the wiring can handle the loads and it works period.
38 street light wiring harnesses and average 4 to a series connection. i guess i forgot to add the harness point. my total lights are 144 plus the signal bridges accesories etc and the total came up to what i stated. I understand the break down of power but needed to throw the total out there so if a older power pack was available at that size possible up grades would have sufficient power like more billboards that could easily be added to the wire looms that protect all of the harnesess. I have extra wiring run for upgrades like a magic kiss sign blowing smoke or more grain of wheat lights and more station lights the billboards get 2 to a splitter from miller engineering. station lights 3 or 4 to a series.
jfb I finally found a marked older package and did the math if there calculations for there products are wrong there is nothing i can do about that.
Sure you can, use a multimeter and measure the current draw. I agree with the others saying they are probably 30 ma (0.03 amp), not 300 ma (0.3 amp).
i went by a total i found on old packaging otherwise like i stated i would have found out by trial and error and dim and dismall operating accesories and this is the only info on hand at the moment i have no way YET of finding out. the accesories are all wired individually to a atlas 205 connection point or a 215 selector point when needed think round houses hear and the proper amount stated in series a lot of you said to look for markings on the packaging and i did otherwise this can be a trial and error process with wasted time and money involved. I prefer to be exact and that is the reason for this thread your experience and advice the total is what is marked and added up and series wired and hooked up to 205 and 215 atlas selectors with each power point for the series wiring harnesses. I understand the point of resistance and the series breaking the needs down but there can always be future upgrades and it is better to have more power on hand then less for this reason.
jfb i have no way YET of finding out
Do you not have a multimeter? If not, get one. You can get one for less than $10, then you would be able to know the curent draw for sure, and they are very handy for model railroading anyway.
Do you have part numbers for the lights? If so somebody may have the same thing and be able to tell you the current draw.
I am not doubting you or myself but this is what was on the packaging period maybe a mistake in markings? The other packages are not to be found. I would think these older light packages were pretty exact and i am assuming they are. Back then people cared a lot more about being a craftsman worker it just makes sense to assume the labeling would also be correct. there were many older large scale layouts and the advice from more experienced modelers was to follow the manufacturers recomendations they did really care about the consumer back then. I read this particular package and multiplied all and presented the total for now and future upgrades in wiring built in. I want enough power but i do not want to burn out the bulbs and the reason for series wiring 4 average lights to a 205 connector point. I heard from a nother source but want confirmation and real experience of course and that all of the experienced modelers here have that older lionel power packs have around 50 amps of power output is it true? if it is and it powered many layouts then it was handled easily with no problems and lionel obviously has a great reputation for quality! my needed 46 would not seem to out of touch then or dangerous along as it is individually wired and my selectors regulate to the series wiring harnesses 4 lights average. I need confirmation of the real out put of these power packs by lionel otherwise every wire harness is breaking down my needs and the 205,s and some 215 atlas connectors regulate the power to the wiring harnesses so the total amperage going through individual wires will not be extreme. 46 amps sounds like a lot but remember cars use more but have individual circuits wired just like my railroad with some improvements in organizing. I am using heavier wire then most car circuits for the circuits so if it was a problem cars would have more problems then stated anywhere so what is the lionel power pack around 1960 to 1970,s out put i was told around 50amps. please respond
Are these Lionel bulbs, either screw-base or bayonet-base? If that's the case, your extimate for current may not be far off. I found a listing of them and many of them run 0.28 amps at 18 volts.
jfb i do not want to burn out the bulbs and the reason for series wiring 4 average lights to a 205 connector point.
Are you sure you've wired them in series? Have you tested them and with what voltage power supply and what voltage are the bulbs? If they are 12 volt bulbs and you are using a 12 volt supply, in series each one would only get 3 volts, I doubt they would even light at that level.
jfbI heard from a nother source but want confirmation and real experience of course and that all of the experienced modelers here have that older lionel power packs have around 50 amps of power output is it true?
I doubt it. I did a quick search and could not find aything like that. Since Lionel rates their power packs at 18 volts, that would be 900 watts!
jfb if it is and it powered many layouts then it was handled easily with no problems and lionel obviously has a great reputation for quality! my needed 46 would not seem to out of touch then or dangerous along as it is individually wired and my selectors regulate to the series wiring harnesses 4 lights average.
The selectors are not going to regulate anything. Unless you have a fuse or circuit breaker before each one, they still have the potential to try and pass the full power of the power supply. If you have a wire come loose somewhere or a wiring mishap or something else to cause a short, you're likely looking at burned up wires and damaged selectors.
jfbI am not doubting you or myself but this is what was on the packaging period maybe a mistake in markings?
Again, was there a part number in the markings?
What does it say on the package? 300ma, .3 amp, or some other number?
Mel, your numebrs seem to add up the opposite way - too low. 240 lamps at 70ma a piece is 16.8 amps total. If they are all on at the same time. If less than half are turned on at any given time, then you are drawing only 8 amps. But you also say they are a mix between 100ma and 70ma - I just calculated as if all of them were the lower power ones.
One other thing, if the total power need really is 46 amps, you do NOT want to run that through one set of Atlas Selectors. They are not designed for high currents. Each switch is maybe good for 1 amp, but dasiy chaining 10 Selectors to get 30 amps of switches wont work very well either, the internal carrying traces from the input screws of one to the output tabs ont he other side aren;t designed to carry huge loads either and they will start off with voltage drop, if you keep adding more load they will heat up and probably melt the plastic, and in an extreme case melt the conductor inside the device. I'd suggest getting soem heavy duty toggle switches and wiring up your own switch boards, you can get toggles good for 5-10 amps - even more, if you use automotive toggles.
46 amps??? The entertainment value of this forum cannot be overstated. Its the one place where the laws of physics does not apply
He would need a inductive current clamp to read that as most dmms are 10a max.
Jim
rrinker Mel, your numebrs seem to add up the opposite way - too low. 240 lamps at 70ma a piece is 16.8 amps total. If they are all on at the same time. If less than half are turned on at any given time, then you are drawing only 8 amps. But you also say they are a mix between 100ma and 70ma - I just calculated as if all of them were the lower power ones. --Randy
Soo Line fan 46 amps??? The entertainment value of this forum cannot be overstated. Its the one place where the laws of physics does not apply He would need a inductive current clamp to read that as most dmms are 10a max.
WOW!! 46 amps plus track, and turnout power. Sounds like he will have to rewire his house wiring as it will take 3 or, maybe 4, 20 amp lines from his main panel.
floridaflyer WOW!! 46 amps plus track, and turnout power. Sounds like he will have to rewire his house wiring as it will take 3 or, maybe 4, 20 amp lines from his main panel.
No. While I don't believe he needs that much, even if he did it would be easily carried by a 20 amp house circuit. Remember, 46 amps at 12 volts = 4.6 amps at 120 volts (not accounting for power supply inefficiencies).
You are correct Robert
Wouldn't need a current clamp multimeter to read the current of ONE bulb and multiply And 4 bulbd at 30ma each in series is still 30ma for the string. But if they are 12V bulbs, 4 in series will need 24 volts or more for a dim glow, 48 volts for full brightness.