jfb ... I needed real world experience sometimes testing is not the total solution with electrical testing meters it can be just like book work or computer work and not fully real ...
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I needed real world experience sometimes testing is not the total solution with electrical testing meters it can be just like book work or computer work and not fully real
LOL. Wow, that's rich. Measuring the resistance of your bulbs with a multimeter is the most "real" thing you can do, and you still need to understand electrical theory if you want to build a circuit without having someone here hold your hand through it.
anyways...
Why are you even asking for help if you think that you already know everything?
The "experienced modelers" here are telling you to get a meter and you are saying that they are wrong?
Edit:
I noticed that you want to wire the lights in series, and in that case you should not be multiplying the current by the number of lights.
jfb you guys have the real world finished product experience and it should be flattering to have someone ask you for your opinion on a finished product.
you guys have the real world finished product experience and it should be flattering to have someone ask you for your opinion on a finished product.
Flattery will get you no where
Jim
WHy sonny, back in my day we never measured a darn thing, we just kept hooking up lights untilt eh circuit breaker tripped......
Kinda, that's how we did it. WHen I was a kid, we didn't have a multimeter. We put lights in all the buildings, a smoke unit on a few of them, and just hooked it all up and hoped it would work. Granted, we were only dealing with a 4x8 (plus a little in the final version). Knowing what I know now, after a college education and 40+ more years of experience, I tend to at least think things out a little more before just firing it up and hoping no smoke escapes. You can;t come by that accumlated knowledge instantly. You cna ask questions, you can do research, and eventually you will 'get it'. It's part of what make this a life long hobby, you can't just run out, read one book, and suddenly be an expert. Notice I rarely answer scenery questions - because I'm horrible at it. Every book or article I read, or video I watch, makes it all seem so easy - until I actually go and attempt it. Bob Ross made painting look easy, too.... I do try to provide explanations for answer, not jsut ansers - for those that chose to read past the answer to their question to see how it was arrived at, perhaps next time they can figure it out on their own. Yeah, I'm hitting that "get off my lawn" stage, but the instant gratification crowd can just take a hike as far as I'm concerned. At least TRY - forget Yoda's bad advice. You may surprise yourself (I keep tellingmyself that about scenery), but it is hard to not help someone who has at least made some attempt to resolve a problem on their own. If there's any chain of thought provided, some gentle nudging at the point of difficulty may reveal the solution to the problem for the person, and having orked through it once, they can then do it themselves next time. The feeling of accomplishment is the end goal - I do think there is far too much dilution of that these days in the newer generations, but this is not the forum for the kind of discussion that topic would lead to. I've seen it here, with thigns liek decoder installs. FIrst time asks a lot of questions, we provide help, person comes back and says they got it working. A few weeks later - same person posts a completed project they did themselves, without posting the questions. From bare understanding to being able to accomplish the task on their own - when I see stuff like that I know how a teacher feels when they see a student 'get it'.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
We have given you our "real world" experience. It tells us that there is no way these lights draw .3 amps each, but you don't seem to want to believe us, and it's not like it's one person's opinion, several have questioned the current draw of your lamps.
We can't tell you precisely what an old "life like round street light" would draw. Even if one of us has what we believe to be the same part, if yours was produce in 1980 and another was produced in 1985, they may not draw the same amount. What we can tell you is that it probably doesn't draw .3 amps and that it is probably closer to .03 amps. If you really want to know what YOUR lamps draw, then you really need to measure the current draw of YOUR lamps.
To me, one of the great joys of model railroading is the learning that goes along with it. This place is like a great University of Model Railroading, where you can meet every day with some incredibly skilled and helpful people who are happy to answer questions and present solutions.
One of the most common suggestions we give out on the Electronics and DCC Forum is "get a meter." Really. You can find a perfectly acceptable one at Harbor Freight for well under ten dollars. This one handy gadget will let you measure current, voltage and resistance and even let you buzz out a connection.
Once you've been reading this forum for a while, you'll discover that the first step in providing a solution is to ask more questions. Hard data, like "how many amps does a single bulb draw?" is the key that helps us figure out what's going on.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
i am just trying to get a idea guys so here it goes 1. life like round street lights it was a older faded package unopened. 2. I really have no idea of the bulb size,I never contacted the manufacturer back then or would have thought too. I understand the meter idea and agree but wth such large lay outs posted on this website like most experienced modelers like your self i thought you would have a idea of how much power is needed considering that most here have the older and better pieces from the past and of course real experience and not wanting to rebuild a layout from a time and cost perspective that can be huge. I needed real world experience sometimes testing is not the total solution with electrical testing meters it can be just like book work or computer work and not fully real and all points of view have to be looked at. I have zero problems with running less power with dimmer lighting it saves bulb replacement anyway. I was giving the supposed series wiring total amperage and it is in series as a estimate to not completely under power it all. you guys have the real world finished product experience and it should be flattering to have someone ask you for your opinion on a finished product. I doubt anyone would rebuild another from a cost and time point of view and just do it right the first time with small changes thrown in periodically. I need real world experience. thanks jfb i only have so much time for computers every now and then.
In the time it took to compose the last response, he could have used a DMM and had his answers. But then we told him that in his last thread.
Now we have to wait till Memorial weekend...................
big daydreamerFollowing writing conventions is a pretty good idea if you want people to understand what you are writing, so I suggest that you follow them
jfb: I really have to agree with big daydreamer.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
ANd you still haven't indicated what you read on that one package and what it was the package for. If it was one of those 6 light floodlight towers, it very easily could be 300ma, .3 amps, if they used 50ma bulbs (entirely plausible if it was an older Life Like accessory). I once had a few like that, late 60's/early 70's vintage, they used fairly high current bulbs and every single one of them had melted plastic after a while. But a Life Like street light? Just one? No way is it a 300ma bulb, it would have to be a misprint or a faded decimal point. Or Life Like being cheap and using the same package for everything from a simple street light to those floodlight towers.
this is painful to watch....
OP:
1) Read through the first few tutorials on this site: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/where-do-i-start
2) Following writing conventions is a pretty good idea if you want people to understand what you are writing, so I suggest that you follow them.
hey guys thanks for the replies but it was a older package that i took the amp total from and just mulltiplied it. Was and can the packaging be wrong is my or your guess. I have 4 average lights to each wiring harness and 38 total harnesses and this power source is just for the lights street and buildings plus highway it was my foul up that i did noy say 38 harneses before and each harness is connected to a 205 atlas selector point some accesories have to go to a 215 selector of dc power . I was just saying that i heard that some lionel power packs are 50 amps and that can be wrong also and the reason for asking more experienced modelers like yourself. I have to get real info from experience like you have already.I stated that i have a learning curve hear on this sight. I have 85 percent model power lights and 15 percent life like lights and the life like package stated the amount of amps needed and from there i did the calculating maybe the package was wrong? or faded too much.. I figured that they all were probably about the same amount needed and my learning curve continous. I am getting back to this around memorial day my other obligations have to come first.
Been using this one for years. Plugs right into a DMM
Wouldn't need a current clamp multimeter to read the current of ONE bulb and multiply And 4 bulbd at 30ma each in series is still 30ma for the string. But if they are 12V bulbs, 4 in series will need 24 volts or more for a dim glow, 48 volts for full brightness.
You are correct Robert
floridaflyer WOW!! 46 amps plus track, and turnout power. Sounds like he will have to rewire his house wiring as it will take 3 or, maybe 4, 20 amp lines from his main panel.
WOW!! 46 amps plus track, and turnout power. Sounds like he will have to rewire his house wiring as it will take 3 or, maybe 4, 20 amp lines from his main panel.
No. While I don't believe he needs that much, even if he did it would be easily carried by a 20 amp house circuit. Remember, 46 amps at 12 volts = 4.6 amps at 120 volts (not accounting for power supply inefficiencies).
Soo Line fan 46 amps??? The entertainment value of this forum cannot be overstated. Its the one place where the laws of physics does not apply He would need a inductive current clamp to read that as most dmms are 10a max.
46 amps??? The entertainment value of this forum cannot be overstated. Its the one place where the laws of physics does not apply
He would need a inductive current clamp to read that as most dmms are 10a max.
rrinker Mel, your numebrs seem to add up the opposite way - too low. 240 lamps at 70ma a piece is 16.8 amps total. If they are all on at the same time. If less than half are turned on at any given time, then you are drawing only 8 amps. But you also say they are a mix between 100ma and 70ma - I just calculated as if all of them were the lower power ones. --Randy
Mel, your numebrs seem to add up the opposite way - too low. 240 lamps at 70ma a piece is 16.8 amps total. If they are all on at the same time. If less than half are turned on at any given time, then you are drawing only 8 amps. But you also say they are a mix between 100ma and 70ma - I just calculated as if all of them were the lower power ones.
What does it say on the package? 300ma, .3 amp, or some other number?
One other thing, if the total power need really is 46 amps, you do NOT want to run that through one set of Atlas Selectors. They are not designed for high currents. Each switch is maybe good for 1 amp, but dasiy chaining 10 Selectors to get 30 amps of switches wont work very well either, the internal carrying traces from the input screws of one to the output tabs ont he other side aren;t designed to carry huge loads either and they will start off with voltage drop, if you keep adding more load they will heat up and probably melt the plastic, and in an extreme case melt the conductor inside the device. I'd suggest getting soem heavy duty toggle switches and wiring up your own switch boards, you can get toggles good for 5-10 amps - even more, if you use automotive toggles.
jfbI am not doubting you or myself but this is what was on the packaging period maybe a mistake in markings?
Again, was there a part number in the markings?
jfb i do not want to burn out the bulbs and the reason for series wiring 4 average lights to a 205 connector point.
Are you sure you've wired them in series? Have you tested them and with what voltage power supply and what voltage are the bulbs? If they are 12 volt bulbs and you are using a 12 volt supply, in series each one would only get 3 volts, I doubt they would even light at that level.
jfbI heard from a nother source but want confirmation and real experience of course and that all of the experienced modelers here have that older lionel power packs have around 50 amps of power output is it true?
I doubt it. I did a quick search and could not find aything like that. Since Lionel rates their power packs at 18 volts, that would be 900 watts!
jfb if it is and it powered many layouts then it was handled easily with no problems and lionel obviously has a great reputation for quality! my needed 46 would not seem to out of touch then or dangerous along as it is individually wired and my selectors regulate to the series wiring harnesses 4 lights average.
The selectors are not going to regulate anything. Unless you have a fuse or circuit breaker before each one, they still have the potential to try and pass the full power of the power supply. If you have a wire come loose somewhere or a wiring mishap or something else to cause a short, you're likely looking at burned up wires and damaged selectors.
Are these Lionel bulbs, either screw-base or bayonet-base? If that's the case, your extimate for current may not be far off. I found a listing of them and many of them run 0.28 amps at 18 volts.
I am not doubting you or myself but this is what was on the packaging period maybe a mistake in markings? The other packages are not to be found. I would think these older light packages were pretty exact and i am assuming they are. Back then people cared a lot more about being a craftsman worker it just makes sense to assume the labeling would also be correct. there were many older large scale layouts and the advice from more experienced modelers was to follow the manufacturers recomendations they did really care about the consumer back then. I read this particular package and multiplied all and presented the total for now and future upgrades in wiring built in. I want enough power but i do not want to burn out the bulbs and the reason for series wiring 4 average lights to a 205 connector point. I heard from a nother source but want confirmation and real experience of course and that all of the experienced modelers here have that older lionel power packs have around 50 amps of power output is it true? if it is and it powered many layouts then it was handled easily with no problems and lionel obviously has a great reputation for quality! my needed 46 would not seem to out of touch then or dangerous along as it is individually wired and my selectors regulate to the series wiring harnesses 4 lights average. I need confirmation of the real out put of these power packs by lionel otherwise every wire harness is breaking down my needs and the 205,s and some 215 atlas connectors regulate the power to the wiring harnesses so the total amperage going through individual wires will not be extreme. 46 amps sounds like a lot but remember cars use more but have individual circuits wired just like my railroad with some improvements in organizing. I am using heavier wire then most car circuits for the circuits so if it was a problem cars would have more problems then stated anywhere so what is the lionel power pack around 1960 to 1970,s out put i was told around 50amps. please respond
jfb i have no way YET of finding out
Do you not have a multimeter? If not, get one. You can get one for less than $10, then you would be able to know the curent draw for sure, and they are very handy for model railroading anyway.
Do you have part numbers for the lights? If so somebody may have the same thing and be able to tell you the current draw.
i went by a total i found on old packaging otherwise like i stated i would have found out by trial and error and dim and dismall operating accesories and this is the only info on hand at the moment i have no way YET of finding out. the accesories are all wired individually to a atlas 205 connection point or a 215 selector point when needed think round houses hear and the proper amount stated in series a lot of you said to look for markings on the packaging and i did otherwise this can be a trial and error process with wasted time and money involved. I prefer to be exact and that is the reason for this thread your experience and advice the total is what is marked and added up and series wired and hooked up to 205 and 215 atlas selectors with each power point for the series wiring harnesses. I understand the point of resistance and the series breaking the needs down but there can always be future upgrades and it is better to have more power on hand then less for this reason.