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Second Request for DCC Programming Help

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  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, February 28, 2016 12:47 PM

Sorry Randy, I guess I’m still a bit out of it.
 
I have a small wire wound pot that I use to balance my motors for DC operation only.  I use Nichrome wire cut length for the resistance needed to match my motors for DC operation only.  I have always bypassed the resistors for DCC operation.
 
I’ve been doing the resistor thing for close to 40 years.  As I found out re-motoring with can motors resistors aren’t needed as often as the older original motors.  As long as I keep the locomotives with the same type motors for consisting I rarely need a speed balance resistor.
 
There is a huge difference between the Faulhaber 2224 and Canon EN22 so those locomotives must be paired with like motors.
 
In looking over my notes I’ve kept over the years I ran into some interesting DDC info.  I’m pretty good about keeping info when I have problems and on several occasions I wrote down voltages on various attempts to program my decoders.  I every case the voltage to the accessories (blue wire) it was always 13.2 ± .4 volts DC.  The track voltage also was the same at 15.8 ± .1 VAC measured at the decode with my Fluke 179.  Max voltage on the motor was always in the 9 to 10 volt range. 
 
The Fluke 179 spec says 100K so this morning I checked the Prodigy with the Fluke and scope, both measured 16 volts with one locomotive as a load.
 
I rarely changed CVs for fear of screwing something up, when I finished programming I normally reset the decoders to default because my dinking around never helped.  I now know that the MRC reset doesn’t work on all the CVs.  I also believe the programming problem was never changed and remained incorrect until JMRI fixed it.
 
I’m sure any other model railroader would have programmed the decoders correctly the first time and not had any of the problems that Mel created.
 
Thanks guys for you time and patience, this morning I’m a happy camper with a super powerful pair of E7s pulling my 3% grade at an idle towing 10 over weight passenger cars in DCC mode.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Sunday, February 28, 2016 6:48 PM

 For any give DCC system, with a track voltage of X, pretty much all decoders should give a function output voltage of X - (the same amount), since the first thing in, the DCC track power hits a full wave bridge rectifier and other than that there is the diode drop of the controlling transistor for each output (input, since it's a switch to ground). There are exceptions, like decoders that come with constant current sources or resistors already in circuit to limit current for LEDs, but there's veyr little variation in the actual circuitry from vendor to vendor - the biggest differences are in the firmware of the microcontroller. Voltage to the motor at full throttle, assuming no modifications (CV5 at the default, for example) should be just a few diode drops below the track voltage to account for the rectifier and the H bridge drivers.

 Your 179 should be giving accurate track voltage readings, but not all RMS meters will, not even all Flukes with True RMS - they don't all go up to 100KHz, though my old 8060 and my 45 benchtop meter both do. My even older 8012A only goe to 50KHz, but from 20KHz to 50KHz the accuracy is only +/- 5% + 3 digits. To 10KHz it's +/- 0.5% + 2 digits, quite respectable for something from the late 70's/early 80's.

 Glad you got it all sorted out. A reset on some of those other decoders should get them performing more like they shoud. I will usually do a reset as the first step in installing a new decoder - just in case. It's not unheard of for some settings to be really scrambled from factory testing or because a decoder may have actually been a return. Some systems also have a decoder reset in the throttle programmiung menu. Digitrax doesn't, NCE does, dunno about MRC. The problem is, this is usually specific to the manufacturer's decoders - the NCE reset, for example, doesn;t use a CV to execurte a reset (there's no standard for that - though all decoders from a given manufactuer usually have the same method), it simply programs specific CVs to what would typically be the out of the box default values - except it sets some CVs that are specific to NCE decoders, so if you would try that on a different brand decoder, you'd end up with Address 3, and no momentum and so forth, but it might also set some CVs that do different things than the same CV in an NCE decoder. Best to use the decoder specific reset when available. The most common are CV8=8 or CV30=2. Some hedge their bets and support both options.

                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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