Yup, the orange wire screwed to thr frame is the give away. The other end of that circuit is the bottom motor brush, which contacts the frame.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have a P2k S3 as well, but i think it was a special Walthers run (Portland Terminal 1101). There are 8 plasitic nubs that stick up from the top of the trucks toward the middle (2 on each end of each truck) that prevent wheel contact with the metal frame. Once I finish the S1 I will take the S3 appart and investigate this orange wire problem. On my S1 the orange wire is attached to the metal frame using a ring terminal (i think thats what it is called) and a screw, directly under the forward light bulb. Thanks for the links to the other threads.
Yep, the Proto S3 had the same problem as the S1. That is where my problems began and ended.
Rich
Alton Junction
Yes, it's very obvious, if the loco os built liek the S1, there is a tab screwed in witht he bottom brush holder that is bent out so it puts pressure on the frame when the motor is screwed in. Sort of like the tabs on the bottom clip of a Athearn Blue Box motor. Plus with the motor out, the part of the frame under the motor brush holder is not blackened so said tab can make contact. On mine, I cut the tab off except for a tiny straight bit of it, which I use to solder the wire on, and then put a piece of Kapton tape over it before putting the motor back in.
I don't think the SWs have this same problem, but I don't have any of them. Just the Alco S1. I'd suspect the S3 has the same issue. Atlas made S2's and S4's, the one shown a while ago in MR on installing sound had the same problem as the P2K ones, heck it even looked like the same motor and all, although supposedly the newer Atlas ones do not have this issue.
hon30critter OK Rich: Thank you for posting those links. What I have deduced is that the P2K S1 is built differently from the other P2K S series switchers. In my usual blind manner I was assuming that all P2K switchers had the same problem. Apparently they don't. Much fuss over nothing! Thanks for your support. Dave
OK Rich:
Thank you for posting those links.
What I have deduced is that the P2K S1 is built differently from the other P2K S series switchers. In my usual blind manner I was assuming that all P2K switchers had the same problem. Apparently they don't.
Much fuss over nothing!
Thanks for your support.
Dave
What is the Proto Item Number on your box?
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
And this from Digitrax.
http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB992/life-like-proto-2000-s-1-may-damage-dcc/
Here is what Tony's Trains has to say about the problem.
http://tonysdcc.com/tonystips/2001/120601.htm
I dug up my old thread on this issue. It is worth a full read.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/203796.aspx?page=1
Hi Rich:
I still am not quite sure of whether or not I have a potential short but I'm pretty sure I don't. I put one of my continuity testor leads on to the brush holder on the bottom of the motor and I put the other lead on the frame. No connection. I did the same thing for the brush contact on the top of the motor. No connection. I can't see any 'clips' attached to the lower motor connection that might make contact with the frame either. There are two small solder pads on the motor, one for each brush, and they do not touch anything. The motor wires are soldered to those pads.
Quite honestly I think I am being paranoid here. I have installed quite a few decoders and I have made sure that the motor leads were isolated every time. So far no smoke but because I don't have a layout I haven't suffered any derailments either.
If I'm wrong, please tell me before I blow a decoder.
Thanks
ahh, the infamous orange wire.
I have two Life Like S3 switchers, and three Life Like S1 switchers. The problem is that the orange wire is grounded on the lower brush, and a metal clip from the lower brush touched the metal frame. That in itself does not cause a short. But, in a derailment when the wheels make contact with both rails, the decoder will blow. I had it happen on both S3 switchers before I got educated the hard way.
The solution is to insulate the clip so that it does not make direct contact with the frame. Another solution is to relocate the orange wire to prevent this short from occurring in the event of a derailment. Look for the metal clip on your Life Like S1 or S3. Perhaps, some releases do not have the metal clip?
As far as the lights are concerned, I replaced the incandescents with LEDs and had no problem with the fitting or the intensity of the lighting. That said, the rear light is definitely dimmer than the front head light, but that is because of the design of the Life Like S-series switchers.
If I can ask a question about isolating the lower motor connection, none of my 4 P2K switchers seemed to need it. I just took them all apart again to see if I had missed something but I could not find an electrical path between either of the motor brushes and the frame. All the motors have insulated leads coming off each brush. Am I still missing something here? I know the problem exists with Athearn.
Hi Andrew:
I have done several P2K switchers. Mine did not have light tubes. The bulbs are simply mounted right behind the headlight lenses. I use epoxy to glue either 3mm or 0603 LEDs in place of the bulbs. Getting the LED right behind the headlight makes it quite bright but if you are off a bit the headlight will be much dimmer.
Randy,
Thanks for the tip on the motor isolation. Thought I might have to do something with it but I would have left it alone if it passed continuity check with light board removed. The back up light on mine is mounted to the chassis horizontally infront of the cab and the light tube turns at 90 degrees and drops in above it. Would this reduce the light coming out of the back up light due to LEDs being more directional than light bulbs, or is there enough light reflected inside to not matter in this case?
Thanks again
Andrew
Edit: Just checked stall current =0.5A, so the MC2 should be a go.
I just put 3mm LEDs where the incandescent lights were. Might have to file down some of the rim at the base of the LED to get it to fit in the same place. No worries, you can file or sand away any part of the LED case as long as you don't disturb the internals.
Don't forget to pull the motor and insulate the bottom brush contact from the frame, and runa new orange wire. These locos are NOT DCC Ready, as built, if the loco derails and one of the wheels contacts the frame, it will blow the decoder.
I picked up a LL P2k S1 today at a train show. Has anyone done a DCC install on one of these using LEDs? Did you pull the light tube or point the LED up at it? Where you happy with the results? I have not checked the current draw on this one yet, but I was planning on installing a TCS MC2 decoder unless the current draw is too high.