Good day folks
I'm currently working on my new layout which will be DCC this time around and looking for something that will be able to handle what I need but also not break the bank. I've pretty much narrowed it down to NCE and Digitrax. I like Digitrax because my club uses it and I like NCE because it seems easier to use.
However there are pros and cons with each. I'm trying to decide if I can get by on their starter sets or do I need to upgrade to the 5amps.
My layout will be a 8'x12' HO double track main line with a 5-6 yard/terminal and a few sidings/industries. It's based off the MRR track plan Eaglecreek and Northern Ry.
Most of my engines are DCC w/Sound and are by Atheran, BLI, Bachmann, etc.
My question is sort of two-fold.
1. Can I get by on using either of the above two basic starter sets Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE Powercab or would I have to upgrade to the NCE Pro Cab and Digitrax Super Chief or Empire builder?
2. All things considered price is a factor but what would you do if it was your layout?
P.S. I don't know a thing about DCC besides just using the throttles and running trains
Regg
The real question is how many trains you will be runnign on it at the same time. You could fill up an aircraft hanger with a layout but if you only ever run a single train, it won't stress a basic system.
The 3 amps on the Zephyr Xtra should be good for at least 8 HO locos - I've run that many on my original Zephyr with is 2.5 amps.
Since you club is Digitrax, if having local support available matters, go with Digitrax. Basic operation is pretty much identical with either system. Back when I went DCC, I researched the variou systems and went Digitrax mainly on the strengths of the Loconet command bus. Finally I am working on a layout that will actually utilize the capabilities for signalling and detection (well, I was when I went to DCC, too, but before it ever got that far my life situation changed and that layout was abandoned).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Either one will do. Both will handle at least 6-8 sound locos running simutaneously. the size of the layout doesn't realy matter, the amount of locos you're going to run at the same time does. The Digitrax will handle a few more than the NCE. I presonnaly prefer the NCE as it has a handheld throttle and the Zepher is a stationary throttle. You can always buy a utility throttle the run on the club's layout.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Personally I much prefer NCE. That said, however, since your club has a Digitraxx system that is the direction I believe you should go. Both could handle your proposed layout and operation but having friends that know your system to assist you as you learn is probably more important than the intuitiveness of NCE.
I plan on running at least 2-4 trains. Two will be on the main lines and maybe a switcher or two on the sidings. But I will have engines running with sound on layed up in the yard/terminal. Does that matter???
I also will have a reverse loop and lights although the lights may be wired to a extra dc power pack I have or I may just use Woodland Scenics new light system which seems simple enough to use.
I like Digitrax only because I'm more familiar with it, however I don't like the Zephyr because its stationary and would need to sit on something like a table/panel. However if I upgraded to the Super Chief that would be eliminated but is this overkill?
My close friend has NCE Pro Cab 5 amps and told me that is the way to go although he said the system was about $600 after you buy the power cord and extra stuff. His layout is similar to mines.
With the Zephyr can I assess functions 13-29 on the throttle for other decoder functions such as coupler slack, station annoucement etc
have you considered the NCE twin? looks like its around $125
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Greetings,
I have a slightly smaller layout than yours and I went with NCE PowerCab and I'm very happy with the choice.
A Digitrax wireless system came my way cheaply and I've played around with it a bit, but the NCE system is what I use on my layout every day.
I went with NCE because I liked that the starter system came with a handheld throttle. The Zephyr just seemed too much like an old DC power pack to me.
The great thing about either system is that they are very upgradeable, so pretty much nothing you invest in is wasted.
Digitrax might be the way to go because that's what your club is using.
The best way to make the decision is to try and use both systems and pick the one that you found easiest and most enjoyable to use.
You can't go wrong with either Digitrax or NCE.
Good luck with your choice.
-------------------------------------
Modelling modern day CP operations in West Toronto
http://westtorontojunction.blogspot.ca
Regg05 I like Digitrax only because I'm more familiar with it, however I don't like the Zephyr because its stationary and would need to sit on something like a table/panel. However if I upgraded to the Super Chief that would be eliminated but is this overkill?
Regg:
You can add a UR92 radio receiver and a DT402D throttle to you Zephyr and you can move wherever you want to go. No need to get a new system unless you want more amps. It doesn't sound like you do.
Joe
Regg, I own the NCE 5 amp PH-Pro system. If you are serious about growing in the hobby and your preference is for NCE, consider the 5 amp PH-Pro over the 3 amp Power Cab. Looking at MB Klein prices, the difference is $400 versus $200 for the complete starter kit for each system. The PH-Pro has it hands down over the Power Cab for flexibility and expansion.
Rich
Alton Junction
NCE
You'll be spending thousands on track, benchwork and trains. A couple hundred more for a fully featured system is just noise by comparison.
RT
yes I do plan on growing in the hobby but how soon idk as this will be my first built layout that I actually take part in myself with some help. NCE Procab does seem to be the choice for alot of people for its ease of operation. Yes it's $400 at Model Train world but add another $50 for the power supply and tax+shipping and you're at $500. If I could get the power cab or zephyr for $199 couldn't I just add on when needed or is it just best to get it now. What additional features will I be using to warrant the Procab or Super Chief right now? Do lights or any other features still use DCC power as well?
MT
And yes a few hundred does matter because you're right I'm already spending thousands on track, scenery, structures, etc. :)
Regg05 Rich yes I do plan on growing in the hobby but how soon idk as this will be my first built layout that I actually take part in myself with some help. NCE Procab does seem to be the choice for alot of people for its ease of operation. Yes it's $400 at Model Train world but add another $50 for the power supply and tax+shipping and you're at $500. If I could get the power cab or zephyr for $199 couldn't I just add on when needed or is it just best to get it now. What additional features will I be using to warrant the Procab or Super Chief right now? Do lights or any other features still use DCC power as well?
You don't really add on to the Power Cab later. If you subsequently upgrade to the Powerhouse Pro, the Power Cab can be used with the larger system.
Even with the Powerhouse Pro system, I still use a separate DC power pack for my signals and other features so as not to drain my DCC power unnecessarily.
The main reason that I would recommend an initial purchase of the Powerhouse Pro over the Power Cab is that the DCC command station and booster is the heart of the entire operating layout. With the 5 amp system in place, a virtually unlimited number of locos can be run by multiple operators without any concern for power limitations. Beyond the initial purchase, there is really nothing left to upgrade to unless you decide to go wireless.
My layout is slightly larger than yours and I run up to five locomotives (sound an no sound) at the same time. I choose the NCE PowerCab for economical reason and the handheld cab.
I am really happy with it and see no reason to upgrade it.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
Regg,
I am pretty much a newbie here and to model railroading. So take my advice with that in mind - there are plenty more experienced and knowledgeable folks here.
I wanted to go DCC so I looked at what was available in a "set". I managed to buy an Echo Valley DCC/sound train set from ebay for $85 bucks - brand new sealed in package. I put this on my 25X12 layout and it ran well - even with just one connection to the rails - no bus - no feeder wires.
I learned a lot from that basic system and it was very affordable. I sold the loco for almost the same price as the whole set later. So it was a win-win for me.
I use 3 bachmann e-z controllers for running the locos on my layout and a NCE power cab for programming CV's etc.
This is just one option - you may have other ideas - but bear in mind that starting off with a "cheap" system does not mean you are compromising what you can do with the layout later.
Just my 10 cents.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...
Personally I chose the NCE Powercab over Digitrax because I was more comfortable with the layout of the throttle, and so far anyhow I am a lone wolf operator. It can be upgraded to 5 amps with an SB5 booster for $210.00 list price from NCE, likely cheaper elsewhere. I'm not sure I will ever have the need.
The point about club operation is very valid. While you do have the option of using NCE at home and buying a simple Digitrax $69.95 UT4 throttle (or better) for use at the club, that may not be the best way to go if you intend to have guest operators on your layout who only have Digitrax throttles.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The PowerCab will be able to deal with what you have in mind for your layout. Note that if you plan on running more than two trains (the PowerCab allows control of one train while leaving the other running in the Recall slot) you'll need to buy an additional throttle. It can be plugged into the PowerCab's control panel or the added throttle can be connected to additional UTP panels for walkaround control. The PowerCab must remain plugged into its panel, because it supplies the power for everything, so if it's unplugged, everything stops.
I agree with Rich that the 5 amp PowerPro is a better path if you plan on going big later. On the other hand, I have both and use my PowerCab primarily to run my programming track, although I also use it plugged into the layout as the dispatcher's throttle. All my other throttles are radio ones. The PowerCab can be sent back to NCE and radio installed in it, although you can't buy it that way. Probably not of concern right now since everyone else is using Digitrax, but good to know if circumstances change.
Speaking of the NCE/Digitrax divide...yes, it IS good to have Digitrax users available to consult with. You've already noted how NCE is more intuitive for most folks. Digitrax not so much. Thing is since NCE is a more natural fit for many, you'll likely need relatively little help on your layout if you go with NCE. For the rest, there's that thing called the internet. You're in exactly the same situation as I am. Everyone else uses Digitrax because everyone else uses Digitrax. And they spend a lot of time consulting with each other on things, even when we operate together. Must be a pretty steep learning curve there, as this has gone on for years. When they're here, we mostly just run trains. Only very rarely does the need to ask about something NCE come up, as they mostly figure it out on their own without needing to ask about it.
True, if all you can afford is one throttle for now, you're sorta out of luck if someone else wants to operate with either brand. In my case, I have added throttles simply because it is a bigger layout. In the long run, you might consider looking into JMRI, as allows you to use your computer and WiFi to turn any iPhone or Android phone into a throttle with an app and your guests usually arrive with one or the other. Otherwise, the SB3 will allow you to use more NCE throttles.
Yes, Digitrax has some cool stuff that even NCE users sometimes like to use if they NEED a signal system, for instance. My layout is all "dark territory" so that is largely irrelevant, as it may be with your smaller layout. But if you do want to get into signaling, etc, people often set up a separate Digitrax command station to drive the Loconet on an NCE-powered layout.
I'll admit I'm a bit biased toward NCE. Mostly that's because NCE provides what I need and lets me concentrate on running trains, instead of running my throttle. The PowerCab is an affordable, neat starter set, in a very convenient form-factor and remains very useful even if you upgrade to a larger NCE system later.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I know nothing about the ease of use of the NCE system. I do know that my Digitrax Zephyr is easy to use and that the company is "Johnny on the Spot" with help when I need it. My guess is that NCE is very similar. The O.P. simply needs to pull the trigger on one system; or, the other and then be happy with his decision.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
The only features extra you get with the Super Chief over the Zephyr Xtra are 5 amps instead of 3, fast clock in the command station, and routes in the command station. Seperate program track with readback is there in the Zephyr same as the Chief.
Zephyr + a throttle (which you could then also use at the club) will put you well ahead of the game - you'd have 2 throttles to run trains, the one in the Zphyr plus the second one.
Lights in cars use power - but you should be using LEDs for this stuff, so it's minimal. Lights in structures, you do NOT power from the DCC power, you use cheap power supplies or an old DC power pack for that sort of thing. 2-4 running trains is easily in the capacity of the Zephyr with no extra boosters, even if both have multiple power units.
Mike
So if I have two trains continously running for instance and I want to run a switcher in the yard or a siding, I will need to buy a additional throttle? I thought you could run several trains at one time. Its only limited to two??? Then an additional throttle is required? Also would an additional plug in interface be needed? The thing that looks like a phone jack.
I was considering the Digitrax Super Chief System since my local club uses it but I would still need to buy a wireless throttle and those are expensive so may just go with NCE since I do have a close friend who uses NCE and most likely would be coming over to run trains and help me with any problems that come up with the layout.
Thanks
I had the same question a couple of months back and decided to go with the Digitrax Zephyr. Honestly, the deciding factor was that I could easily use the Zephyr as a base and add throttles, etc. When I got the unit, I discovered a feature that has been a godsend--the DC power supply jumpers. While you can control multiple locomotives running simultaneously with a single throttle, it involves switching the address on the throttle. If you get a little flustered in the heat of the moment, bad things can happen. (Yes, this is the voice of experience talking.) The Zephyr allows you to attach up to two DC power supplies and use them as additional throttles. I had an MRC power supply with two throttles that I attached to the Zephyr and now I can easily control three trains at once.
Richard
Regg05So if I have two trains continously running for instance and I want to run a switcher in the yard or a siding, I will need to buy a additional throttle?
Regg05Also would an additional plug in interface be needed? The thing that looks like a phone jack.
Regg05I do have a close friend who uses NCE and most likely would be coming over to run trains and help me with any problems that come up with the layout.
Water Level route is correct. For running three trains at once, you would need one additional throttle with the Powercab. You can have tow running at once on the powerCab -- one on top, and one on Recall. Then you'd need another throttle to run the third one, which *I think* would then also let you add more Recall locos, depending on which add-on throttle you use.
The PowerPro permits, IIRC up to three locos in the Recall stack if you're using the hammerhead controller. You adjust a setting in the throttle to enable more than one Recall. I always stick to just one, as I get confused if there's that many in my Recall stack and I have extra throttles for the rare occassions when I need to control more than 2 running trains.
You can plug the extra throttle into the expansion slot in the PowerCab controller, so you don't need any extra panels than that when adding the extra throttle. Most people want some walkaround though, so that is what the UTP is for. It gives two plugins for throttle in front and ports in back fro the incomung control bus and output to more UTPs beyond. The UTP comes in two flavors. The standard 4 wire Telco plug control circuit cabling is the standard, familiar one. There's also a new UTP that uses CAT 5 cabling like that used in ethernet, which you probably don't want to jump into, just don't get it by mistake if you want the standard UTP.
Here is a picture of my three-throttle setup.
Regg05With the Zephyr can I assess functions 13-29 on the throttle for other decoder functions such as coupler slack, station annoucement etc
I don't think anybody else answered this, but yes, the current Zephyr Xtra will control up through f28 (there is no f29).
The original Power Cab only had a two loco recall, which caused issues if trying to run more than two trains with a single throttle, but it currently has a six loco recall.
If you go with a Zephyr, you'll want to get a walkaround throttle, but if you go with a Power Cab, with the size of your layout you probably should get an SB5 booster (not for the power requirements, but for the distances - a tethered Power Cab has a seven foot cord), so to me having the Power Cab as a tethered throttle out of the box isn't a big deal. A Zephyr plus a throttle and a Power Cab plus SB5 are very similar systems as far as capabilities, but I really like the additional stationary throttle you get with the Zephyr.
It gets complicated, right? I won't say anything more than my DT400 throttle from Digitrax has two encoder knobs allowing me to quickly control two locos, including making only one of them accelerate or stop very quickly (not having to press the emergency stop button).
Digitrax does have a learning curve, but that learning is no more challenging than learning the difference between iOS and Windows 7. It all becomes natural in no time at all.
I, for one, am not a fan of following the crowd. If the crowd is using A but I prefer the features of B, I don't see that I would want to be stuck using A just because everyone else is.
And I know for a fact that amongst that group of A users there are ones who would prefer B but are using A just because.
The reality is that both of the systems will do what you are likely to want them to do, and hook up the same way. And answers to questions are just a phone call or e-mail away.
selectorDigitrax does have a learning curve, but that learning is no more challenging than learning the difference between iOS and Windows 7. It all becomes natural in no time at all.
Selector,
All I can say is, maybe. The local sample size is small, but the learning curve remains steep. I have an excuse, because I don't have Digitrax at home to practice with. I'd think a bunch of younger guys would probably see it your way. Our bunch is a bit on the gray side. Maybe that's why I recall seeing old gray fellows in NCE ads lately? YMMV
mlehmanFor running three trains at once, you would need one additional throttle with the Powercab. You can have tow running at once on the powerCab -- one on top, and one on Recall. Then you'd need another throttle to run the third one, which *I think* would then also let you add more Recall locos, depending on which add-on throttle you use.
I understand that with the new chip in the PowerCab you can now put up to six locomotives in the Recall Stack. Even then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use. You can RUN more, but, IMHO, the possibility for trouble increases with the number of locomotives you run at the same time.
I know this because I tried.
Guy PapillonEven then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use.
Actually, with Digitrax DT series throttles you can directly control two locomotives at the same time.
CSX Robert Guy Papillon Even then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use. Actually, with Digitrax DT series throttles you can directly control two locomotives at the same time.
Guy Papillon Even then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use.
I stand corrected. DT for double throttles.