The real question is how many trains you will be runnign on it at the same time. You could fill up an aircraft hanger with a layout but if you only ever run a single train, it won't stress a basic system.
The 3 amps on the Zephyr Xtra should be good for at least 8 HO locos - I've run that many on my original Zephyr with is 2.5 amps.
Since you club is Digitrax, if having local support available matters, go with Digitrax. Basic operation is pretty much identical with either system. Back when I went DCC, I researched the variou systems and went Digitrax mainly on the strengths of the Loconet command bus. Finally I am working on a layout that will actually utilize the capabilities for signalling and detection (well, I was when I went to DCC, too, but before it ever got that far my life situation changed and that layout was abandoned).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Either one will do. Both will handle at least 6-8 sound locos running simutaneously. the size of the layout doesn't realy matter, the amount of locos you're going to run at the same time does. The Digitrax will handle a few more than the NCE. I presonnaly prefer the NCE as it has a handheld throttle and the Zepher is a stationary throttle. You can always buy a utility throttle the run on the club's layout.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Personally I much prefer NCE. That said, however, since your club has a Digitraxx system that is the direction I believe you should go. Both could handle your proposed layout and operation but having friends that know your system to assist you as you learn is probably more important than the intuitiveness of NCE.
I plan on running at least 2-4 trains. Two will be on the main lines and maybe a switcher or two on the sidings. But I will have engines running with sound on layed up in the yard/terminal. Does that matter???
I also will have a reverse loop and lights although the lights may be wired to a extra dc power pack I have or I may just use Woodland Scenics new light system which seems simple enough to use.
I like Digitrax only because I'm more familiar with it, however I don't like the Zephyr because its stationary and would need to sit on something like a table/panel. However if I upgraded to the Super Chief that would be eliminated but is this overkill?
My close friend has NCE Pro Cab 5 amps and told me that is the way to go although he said the system was about $600 after you buy the power cord and extra stuff. His layout is similar to mines.
With the Zephyr can I assess functions 13-29 on the throttle for other decoder functions such as coupler slack, station annoucement etc
have you considered the NCE twin? looks like its around $125
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Greetings,
I have a slightly smaller layout than yours and I went with NCE PowerCab and I'm very happy with the choice.
A Digitrax wireless system came my way cheaply and I've played around with it a bit, but the NCE system is what I use on my layout every day.
I went with NCE because I liked that the starter system came with a handheld throttle. The Zephyr just seemed too much like an old DC power pack to me.
The great thing about either system is that they are very upgradeable, so pretty much nothing you invest in is wasted.
Digitrax might be the way to go because that's what your club is using.
The best way to make the decision is to try and use both systems and pick the one that you found easiest and most enjoyable to use.
You can't go wrong with either Digitrax or NCE.
Good luck with your choice.
-------------------------------------
Modelling modern day CP operations in West Toronto
http://westtorontojunction.blogspot.ca
Regg05 I like Digitrax only because I'm more familiar with it, however I don't like the Zephyr because its stationary and would need to sit on something like a table/panel. However if I upgraded to the Super Chief that would be eliminated but is this overkill?
Regg:
You can add a UR92 radio receiver and a DT402D throttle to you Zephyr and you can move wherever you want to go. No need to get a new system unless you want more amps. It doesn't sound like you do.
Joe
Regg, I own the NCE 5 amp PH-Pro system. If you are serious about growing in the hobby and your preference is for NCE, consider the 5 amp PH-Pro over the 3 amp Power Cab. Looking at MB Klein prices, the difference is $400 versus $200 for the complete starter kit for each system. The PH-Pro has it hands down over the Power Cab for flexibility and expansion.
Rich
Alton Junction
NCE
You'll be spending thousands on track, benchwork and trains. A couple hundred more for a fully featured system is just noise by comparison.
RT
yes I do plan on growing in the hobby but how soon idk as this will be my first built layout that I actually take part in myself with some help. NCE Procab does seem to be the choice for alot of people for its ease of operation. Yes it's $400 at Model Train world but add another $50 for the power supply and tax+shipping and you're at $500. If I could get the power cab or zephyr for $199 couldn't I just add on when needed or is it just best to get it now. What additional features will I be using to warrant the Procab or Super Chief right now? Do lights or any other features still use DCC power as well?
MT
And yes a few hundred does matter because you're right I'm already spending thousands on track, scenery, structures, etc. :)
Regg
Regg05 Rich yes I do plan on growing in the hobby but how soon idk as this will be my first built layout that I actually take part in myself with some help. NCE Procab does seem to be the choice for alot of people for its ease of operation. Yes it's $400 at Model Train world but add another $50 for the power supply and tax+shipping and you're at $500. If I could get the power cab or zephyr for $199 couldn't I just add on when needed or is it just best to get it now. What additional features will I be using to warrant the Procab or Super Chief right now? Do lights or any other features still use DCC power as well?
You don't really add on to the Power Cab later. If you subsequently upgrade to the Powerhouse Pro, the Power Cab can be used with the larger system.
Even with the Powerhouse Pro system, I still use a separate DC power pack for my signals and other features so as not to drain my DCC power unnecessarily.
The main reason that I would recommend an initial purchase of the Powerhouse Pro over the Power Cab is that the DCC command station and booster is the heart of the entire operating layout. With the 5 amp system in place, a virtually unlimited number of locos can be run by multiple operators without any concern for power limitations. Beyond the initial purchase, there is really nothing left to upgrade to unless you decide to go wireless.
My layout is slightly larger than yours and I run up to five locomotives (sound an no sound) at the same time. I choose the NCE PowerCab for economical reason and the handheld cab.
I am really happy with it and see no reason to upgrade it.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
Regg,
I am pretty much a newbie here and to model railroading. So take my advice with that in mind - there are plenty more experienced and knowledgeable folks here.
I wanted to go DCC so I looked at what was available in a "set". I managed to buy an Echo Valley DCC/sound train set from ebay for $85 bucks - brand new sealed in package. I put this on my 25X12 layout and it ran well - even with just one connection to the rails - no bus - no feeder wires.
I learned a lot from that basic system and it was very affordable. I sold the loco for almost the same price as the whole set later. So it was a win-win for me.
I use 3 bachmann e-z controllers for running the locos on my layout and a NCE power cab for programming CV's etc.
This is just one option - you may have other ideas - but bear in mind that starting off with a "cheap" system does not mean you are compromising what you can do with the layout later.
Just my 10 cents.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...
Personally I chose the NCE Powercab over Digitrax because I was more comfortable with the layout of the throttle, and so far anyhow I am a lone wolf operator. It can be upgraded to 5 amps with an SB5 booster for $210.00 list price from NCE, likely cheaper elsewhere. I'm not sure I will ever have the need.
The point about club operation is very valid. While you do have the option of using NCE at home and buying a simple Digitrax $69.95 UT4 throttle (or better) for use at the club, that may not be the best way to go if you intend to have guest operators on your layout who only have Digitrax throttles.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The PowerCab will be able to deal with what you have in mind for your layout. Note that if you plan on running more than two trains (the PowerCab allows control of one train while leaving the other running in the Recall slot) you'll need to buy an additional throttle. It can be plugged into the PowerCab's control panel or the added throttle can be connected to additional UTP panels for walkaround control. The PowerCab must remain plugged into its panel, because it supplies the power for everything, so if it's unplugged, everything stops.
I agree with Rich that the 5 amp PowerPro is a better path if you plan on going big later. On the other hand, I have both and use my PowerCab primarily to run my programming track, although I also use it plugged into the layout as the dispatcher's throttle. All my other throttles are radio ones. The PowerCab can be sent back to NCE and radio installed in it, although you can't buy it that way. Probably not of concern right now since everyone else is using Digitrax, but good to know if circumstances change.
Speaking of the NCE/Digitrax divide...yes, it IS good to have Digitrax users available to consult with. You've already noted how NCE is more intuitive for most folks. Digitrax not so much. Thing is since NCE is a more natural fit for many, you'll likely need relatively little help on your layout if you go with NCE. For the rest, there's that thing called the internet. You're in exactly the same situation as I am. Everyone else uses Digitrax because everyone else uses Digitrax. And they spend a lot of time consulting with each other on things, even when we operate together. Must be a pretty steep learning curve there, as this has gone on for years. When they're here, we mostly just run trains. Only very rarely does the need to ask about something NCE come up, as they mostly figure it out on their own without needing to ask about it.
True, if all you can afford is one throttle for now, you're sorta out of luck if someone else wants to operate with either brand. In my case, I have added throttles simply because it is a bigger layout. In the long run, you might consider looking into JMRI, as allows you to use your computer and WiFi to turn any iPhone or Android phone into a throttle with an app and your guests usually arrive with one or the other. Otherwise, the SB3 will allow you to use more NCE throttles.
Yes, Digitrax has some cool stuff that even NCE users sometimes like to use if they NEED a signal system, for instance. My layout is all "dark territory" so that is largely irrelevant, as it may be with your smaller layout. But if you do want to get into signaling, etc, people often set up a separate Digitrax command station to drive the Loconet on an NCE-powered layout.
I'll admit I'm a bit biased toward NCE. Mostly that's because NCE provides what I need and lets me concentrate on running trains, instead of running my throttle. The PowerCab is an affordable, neat starter set, in a very convenient form-factor and remains very useful even if you upgrade to a larger NCE system later.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I know nothing about the ease of use of the NCE system. I do know that my Digitrax Zephyr is easy to use and that the company is "Johnny on the Spot" with help when I need it. My guess is that NCE is very similar. The O.P. simply needs to pull the trigger on one system; or, the other and then be happy with his decision.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
The only features extra you get with the Super Chief over the Zephyr Xtra are 5 amps instead of 3, fast clock in the command station, and routes in the command station. Seperate program track with readback is there in the Zephyr same as the Chief.
Zephyr + a throttle (which you could then also use at the club) will put you well ahead of the game - you'd have 2 throttles to run trains, the one in the Zphyr plus the second one.
Lights in cars use power - but you should be using LEDs for this stuff, so it's minimal. Lights in structures, you do NOT power from the DCC power, you use cheap power supplies or an old DC power pack for that sort of thing. 2-4 running trains is easily in the capacity of the Zephyr with no extra boosters, even if both have multiple power units.
Mike
So if I have two trains continously running for instance and I want to run a switcher in the yard or a siding, I will need to buy a additional throttle? I thought you could run several trains at one time. Its only limited to two??? Then an additional throttle is required? Also would an additional plug in interface be needed? The thing that looks like a phone jack.
I was considering the Digitrax Super Chief System since my local club uses it but I would still need to buy a wireless throttle and those are expensive so may just go with NCE since I do have a close friend who uses NCE and most likely would be coming over to run trains and help me with any problems that come up with the layout.
Thanks
I had the same question a couple of months back and decided to go with the Digitrax Zephyr. Honestly, the deciding factor was that I could easily use the Zephyr as a base and add throttles, etc. When I got the unit, I discovered a feature that has been a godsend--the DC power supply jumpers. While you can control multiple locomotives running simultaneously with a single throttle, it involves switching the address on the throttle. If you get a little flustered in the heat of the moment, bad things can happen. (Yes, this is the voice of experience talking.) The Zephyr allows you to attach up to two DC power supplies and use them as additional throttles. I had an MRC power supply with two throttles that I attached to the Zephyr and now I can easily control three trains at once.
Richard
Regg05So if I have two trains continously running for instance and I want to run a switcher in the yard or a siding, I will need to buy a additional throttle?
Regg05Also would an additional plug in interface be needed? The thing that looks like a phone jack.
Regg05I do have a close friend who uses NCE and most likely would be coming over to run trains and help me with any problems that come up with the layout.
Water Level route is correct. For running three trains at once, you would need one additional throttle with the Powercab. You can have tow running at once on the powerCab -- one on top, and one on Recall. Then you'd need another throttle to run the third one, which *I think* would then also let you add more Recall locos, depending on which add-on throttle you use.
The PowerPro permits, IIRC up to three locos in the Recall stack if you're using the hammerhead controller. You adjust a setting in the throttle to enable more than one Recall. I always stick to just one, as I get confused if there's that many in my Recall stack and I have extra throttles for the rare occassions when I need to control more than 2 running trains.
You can plug the extra throttle into the expansion slot in the PowerCab controller, so you don't need any extra panels than that when adding the extra throttle. Most people want some walkaround though, so that is what the UTP is for. It gives two plugins for throttle in front and ports in back fro the incomung control bus and output to more UTPs beyond. The UTP comes in two flavors. The standard 4 wire Telco plug control circuit cabling is the standard, familiar one. There's also a new UTP that uses CAT 5 cabling like that used in ethernet, which you probably don't want to jump into, just don't get it by mistake if you want the standard UTP.
Here is a picture of my three-throttle setup.
Regg05With the Zephyr can I assess functions 13-29 on the throttle for other decoder functions such as coupler slack, station annoucement etc
I don't think anybody else answered this, but yes, the current Zephyr Xtra will control up through f28 (there is no f29).
The original Power Cab only had a two loco recall, which caused issues if trying to run more than two trains with a single throttle, but it currently has a six loco recall.
If you go with a Zephyr, you'll want to get a walkaround throttle, but if you go with a Power Cab, with the size of your layout you probably should get an SB5 booster (not for the power requirements, but for the distances - a tethered Power Cab has a seven foot cord), so to me having the Power Cab as a tethered throttle out of the box isn't a big deal. A Zephyr plus a throttle and a Power Cab plus SB5 are very similar systems as far as capabilities, but I really like the additional stationary throttle you get with the Zephyr.
It gets complicated, right? I won't say anything more than my DT400 throttle from Digitrax has two encoder knobs allowing me to quickly control two locos, including making only one of them accelerate or stop very quickly (not having to press the emergency stop button).
Digitrax does have a learning curve, but that learning is no more challenging than learning the difference between iOS and Windows 7. It all becomes natural in no time at all.
I, for one, am not a fan of following the crowd. If the crowd is using A but I prefer the features of B, I don't see that I would want to be stuck using A just because everyone else is.
And I know for a fact that amongst that group of A users there are ones who would prefer B but are using A just because.
The reality is that both of the systems will do what you are likely to want them to do, and hook up the same way. And answers to questions are just a phone call or e-mail away.
selectorDigitrax does have a learning curve, but that learning is no more challenging than learning the difference between iOS and Windows 7. It all becomes natural in no time at all.
Selector,
All I can say is, maybe. The local sample size is small, but the learning curve remains steep. I have an excuse, because I don't have Digitrax at home to practice with. I'd think a bunch of younger guys would probably see it your way. Our bunch is a bit on the gray side. Maybe that's why I recall seeing old gray fellows in NCE ads lately? YMMV
mlehmanFor running three trains at once, you would need one additional throttle with the Powercab. You can have tow running at once on the powerCab -- one on top, and one on Recall. Then you'd need another throttle to run the third one, which *I think* would then also let you add more Recall locos, depending on which add-on throttle you use.
I understand that with the new chip in the PowerCab you can now put up to six locomotives in the Recall Stack. Even then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use. You can RUN more, but, IMHO, the possibility for trouble increases with the number of locomotives you run at the same time.
I know this because I tried.
Guy PapillonEven then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use.
Actually, with Digitrax DT series throttles you can directly control two locomotives at the same time.
CSX Robert Guy Papillon Even then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use. Actually, with Digitrax DT series throttles you can directly control two locomotives at the same time.
Guy Papillon Even then, you can only CONTROL one loco at a time with only one cab, and that with whichever system you use.
I stand corrected. DT for double throttles.
Our club has the five p power pro. We run as many as ten sound loco's.
I have the Power cab at home and run two HO sound loco's. If I want more, I can buy the smart booster but don't need it so far. Don't need any bragging rights. I am on a budget also. I cannot ever think of running six loco's at one time. I am the only operator. All I use the cab for is to run the loco's. Nothing else.
One advantage of the smart booster is installing extra plug in ports so the loco's keep running when you move to another port.
I believe Tam Valley sells a booster for about $50.00. Think you need to add a power supply. Been reading about it in the MRH forums. The Tam Valley owner post there I believe.
I made and extra long cable to connect the cab.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Okay where I'm stuck at is this:
I like the Digitrax DT402 throttle that I would buy in addition to the Zephyr system so I could have wireless and I like that only because I like the dual knob throttles where you can operate two trains simultaneously without having to switch back and forth which is where I would be nervous about on the layout. I dn't like all those buttons which look just alike though because they don't indicate what their used for
I like on NCE throttle where everything is simplified. They have a horn, bell, lights, whistle etc all separated so you can just operate trains. Not sure how I feel about its large size or the thumb wheel for acceleartion though maybe because im just used to operating with Digitrax single knob on their wireless throttle the club uses. However I see that NCE sells a cab06r throttle that is wireless and has a single knob but only one loco instead of two can be controlled im guessing.
I'm getting close to one or the other though.
I'm going to go to the club now and ask one of the members if I can play with their Digitrax Dt402 so I can get a better feel.
Learning curve? Again I have to say, what learning curve? The OP is already using Digitrax at his club. Therefore I would assume that by now he knows how to run trains with a Digitrax system. Basic operation is almost exactly the same on every DCC system. There is a Loco or Select button, you key in the address, hit enter, turn the knob, and away you go.
Sometimes it boggles my mind that people can boot up their computer, log in, log in to this forum, post messages, and yet still have difficulty running a loco on a DCC system. And some of those people have been posting on forums since before the fairly ubiquitous always on internet of today - you know, when you had to dial up an ISP, or dial up AOL and log in to that first - even more steps.
And programming - just use JMRI. All commonly available systems are now supported, even MRC changed their tune. You won't have to learn how to program on any system. But if you do - they all support things like automatic address calculation, you don't have to calculate CV17 and CV18 for a long address, and you don't have to calculated CV29. Those days are long past. There's no hex or funny codes for Digitrax, haven't been for 15 years or more.
Regg05 I dn't like all those buttons...
The Power Cab and the DT402 both have 34 buttons (actually, the DT402 has 32, but the throttle knobs can be pressed like buttons for reversing the locos).
Regg05...which look just alike though because they don't indicate what their used for I like on NCE throttle where everything is simplified. They have a horn, bell, lights, whistle etc all separated so you can just operate trains.
On the DT402, the bell button has a picture of a bell above it, the whistle button a picture of a whistle, and the light button a picture of a light. All of the buttons are labeled. Some of the buttons are grouped and some are color coded, they don't all look alike to me.
CSX Robert Regg05 I dn't like all those buttons... The Power Cab and the DT402 both have 34 buttons (actually, the DT402 has 32, but the throttle knobs can be pressed like buttons for reversing the locos). Regg05 ...which look just alike though because they don't indicate what their used for I like on NCE throttle where everything is simplified. They have a horn, bell, lights, whistle etc all separated so you can just operate trains. On the DT402, the bell button has a picture of a bell above it, the whistle button a picture of a whistle, and the light button a picture of a light. All of the buttons are labeled. Some of the buttons are grouped and some are color coded, they don't all look alike to me.
Regg05 ...which look just alike though because they don't indicate what their used for I like on NCE throttle where everything is simplified. They have a horn, bell, lights, whistle etc all separated so you can just operate trains.
That is my experience as well. All buttons are clearly labelled. Sure, the first hour may be some trial and error, but if the light is good and your sausages not overly thick, you'll easily discern which buttons are which, and only a pressing error changes things. Does that on any throttle.
It helps that I only use maybe five function buttons regularly: lights, whistle/horn, bell, air pumps, and mute. The one's for shouting in the galley, toilet flushing, brake hose parting, drunk diner belching...they don't have any interest to me.
I do believe I will need to add that "drunk diner belching" sound to either a Loksound or my old unloved Soundbug and stick it in a dining car....
Hey if they can do cattle cars with cows, pigs, sheep, and donkeys...
Maybe also ass the sound of china shattering and tie it in with the same logic used for the brake squeal - stop too hard and all the dishes goes flying and break. Modern version of John Allen's box car with the ball on the tracks to set up the buzzer if you couple too hard.
That was "add"....right?
Regg05I like the Digitrax DT402 throttle that I would buy in addition to the Zephyr system so I could have wireless
Just be aware that in order to have wireless, you will also have to add a wireless receiver and at that point cost wise, you may want to consider going with one of the larger radio equipped starter systems to begin with.
Regg05I like the dual knob throttles where you can operate two trains simultaneously without having to switch back and forth
I too liked that feature, but have had no issue just using the recall button on my NCE system. Any time I have two trains running, I am actively controlling one and having the other running as background traffic. I have never been in a situation where I have needed intricate control of two trains at once. Just be aware that I still think you would need two throttles to do that (Digitrax users correct me if I am wrong). With the DT402, even though you would have two control knobs, you still cannot control two trains simultaneously. If I recall from my research, you have to "activate" one of the two (by pressing the knob?) in order to send commands to that locomotive, so to expect to be able to rotate both knobs simultaneously and have two different trains respond simultaneously is not realistic. Not trying to sway you one way or the other, just want you to be aware of the actual operation of the systems so that you know what you need heading into this. Not much I hate more than expensive surprises!
Water Level RouteJust be aware that I still think you would need two throttles to do that (Digitrax users correct me if I am wrong). With the DT402, even though you would have two control knobs, you still cannot control two trains simultaneously.
You can control two trains simultaneously with the DT400 series throttles. One knob for each train.
Water Level RouteJust be aware that I still think you would need two throttles to do that (Digitrax users correct me if I am wrong). With the DT402, even though you would have two control knobs, you still cannot control two trains simultaneously. If I recall from my research, you have to "activate" one of the two (by pressing the knob?) in order to send commands to that locomotive, so to expect to be able to rotate both knobs simultaneously and have two different trains respond simultaneously is not realistic.
Ok, I'll correct you. You can directly control two trains at one time with a DT402. You can be turning both knobs at the same time and both trains will respond accordingly. You can send function commands to only one at a time because there is only one set of function buttons, but speed and direction can be sent to both.
The NCE Cab 06r allows up to 6 recalls if your system supports that many. I have one, but actually tend to favor my Cab 04r throttles, which also support multiple recalls. Both of course allow only one train at a time to be controlled.
Your idea to try the D throttle is a good one, though, as you wouldn't notice how agreeable or not it is until you've used it awhile. That's how I came down to favoring my 04s over my sole 06.
rrinker Learning curve? Again I have to say, what learning curve? The OP is already using Digitrax at his club. Therefore I would assume that by now he knows how to run trains with a Digitrax system.
Randy,
I know we've had this discussion before. Part of it may come down to the fact there's a lot of older version D throttles in use, although more and more the gang has new ones, too. I can't explain why they suffer so - or more importantly, why they don't just switch to NCE. We never have those discussions. I just notice what goes on. It's a lot like that Mac vs PC thing. Different strokes for different folks. And some folks want to suffer for their art, which is their privilege. I just want to run trains.
I will say that if Digitrax was so obviously great for the OP because he uses them at the club, why are we even discussing NCE? Was his original choice for his home layout just wrong? It doesn't sound like it, it sounds like uncertainty over a major investment. There really is something that works better in NCE for a sizable sector of the MRR community. It's not their fault, it's their choice. And making that choice often isn't easy, considering the costs and the often highly subjective user relationship to the hardware, as well as the various social pressures associated with that choice. Like Ford vs Chevy, we shouldn't let that come between us and our friends. We should just help them make the best choice for them. In the end, I could see going either way, as there's good reasons to make that choice either way.
I agree with mlehman that both are good choices and ultimately the OP will probably be happy with either one. It's tough to sometimes just pull the trigger when you have two good options staring you in the face.
To Joe & Robert: Thanks for correcting me! Forgot that it was just for function commands.
To Regg05: Sounds like you are already leaning one way. Just go for it. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.
NP2626 So, what's it going to be Regg05? You should have sufficient information and opinions to have made a decision?
One more thing...
The wireless DT402 will work wirelessly on your club layout and plug-in at home if you don't want to invest in a wireless startem for the home layout.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Regg051. Can I get by on using either of the above two basic starter sets Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE Powercab or would I have to upgrade to the NCE Pro Cab and Digitrax Super Chief or Empire builder? 2. All things considered price is a factor but what would you do if it was your layout?
Somehow the responses have drifted away from the original questions, which seemed to infer that there was a budget to be considered.
Morning Folks
After much back and forth and spending some time on both of the systems, might be leaning towards NCE Power Pro or the Power Cab and then add the booster in a few months.
Love the Digitrax colors and look of the system as red is my favorite color. Looks more classy but with the Zephyr its like a power pack and will have to build a station to have the Zephyr sit on. With the NCE I can just buy one of those holders and attach it to the side of the layout.
If my budget had afforded me I probably would have gotten the Digitrax Super Chief Wireless for close to $600. Still love those dual knobs on the Digitrax DT402 but would have to buy the wireless receiver.
NCE sells the same type of receivers and throttles. And for a guy who knows nothing about DCC technical stuff NCE seems to talk in more laymen terms.
Now whether I will get the PRO cab or Power cab is up for grabs.
maxman Regg05 1. Can I get by on using either of the above two basic starter sets Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE Powercab or would I have to upgrade to the NCE Pro Cab and Digitrax Super Chief or Empire builder? 2. All things considered price is a factor but what would you do if it was your layout? Somehow the responses have drifted away from the original questions, which seemed to infer that there was a budget to be considered.
Regg05 1. Can I get by on using either of the above two basic starter sets Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE Powercab or would I have to upgrade to the NCE Pro Cab and Digitrax Super Chief or Empire builder? 2. All things considered price is a factor but what would you do if it was your layout?
But, don't forget, his full statement was "All things considered price is a factor but what would you do if it was your layout?". So, that opens it up to a lot broader response that focusing on price alone.
Regg05 After much back and forth and spending some time on both of the systems, might be leaning towards NCE Power Pro or the Power Cab and then add the booster in a few months. Now whether I will get the PRO cab or Power cab is up for grabs.
Regg05 Love the Digitrax colors and look of the system as red is my favorite color.
Love the Digitrax colors and look of the system as red is my favorite color.
Well if you are going to spend for the PH Pro - the Super Chief is $80 less, at least at Klein's.
rrinker Well if you are going to spend for the PH Pro - the Super Chief is $80 less, at least at Klein's. --Randy
richhotrainAnd, it's partially red. Angry
But with the NCE, when you're not running trains you can use the throttle to mash potatoes.
Maybe I should take the case off my DB150 and grab a can of Caboose Red paint....
Maybe making it red will increase the output to 10 amps.
Randy Randy tsk tsk
I get the sense you're being funny lol But yes I do like the Digitrax system because it looks classier for some reason to me and the NCE looks sort of cheap but thats me admittingly being shallow. I just want a quality affordable system where I can have ease of use and that works 95% of the time without shorts, start up and shot down.
Thats why I'm leaning towards the NCE because it seems easier to use. I do want wireless though because having that tethered cord plugged in annoys me. The club has all wireless throttles so that's what I'm used to.
Well now, the NCE Power Pro 5 amp wireless is definitely the way to go, but that drives the price up to $500 or slightly higher.
I have the wireless system, and it is a dandy, and it works 100% of the time.
And, there is nothing cheap about it, quality wise.
They all work 100% of the time if you have your track wired properly.
If you're looking to get wireless right out of the gate, then there's no such thing as a 'cheap' option. Digitrax with the wireless DT402 throttle is just under $500, NCE with a wireless throttle is just over $500 from most resellers, to each you must add a power supply.
My last layout was 10x13, around the walls of a spare room. With one centrally placed plug panel, I could reach the whole layout, so I never bothered going wireless. Club has extra wireless throttles for when I run a road train, but I like switching the yard so I just plug in my wired throttle when doing that. I will probably go radio now that I will have a full basement layout - nice thing is I can upgrade my non-radio throttle to radio and it will not cost me any more than if I had just bought the radio one up front - Digitrax upgrade costs are exactly the price difference between the radio an dnon-radio units. I keep meaning to get going on this while I don;t need to use any of it, that way I will have no downtime. I actually have 2 of the DT400 series throttles plus I picked up an old DT100 cheap on ebay - makes a great train-running throttle, personally I do not like potentiometer controls so i don't have any UT4's, which are probably the ones you use at the club, big knob plus a toggle switch. The DT402 is easier, just key in the address instead of trying to turn the little dials to the address you want, but the UT4 design came from polling Digitrax users and the majority won.
Regg05I plan on running at least 2-4 trains...
This is something I meant to touch on earlier and forgot. You say 2-4 trains, but don't mention how many engines. If they are all going to be single-headed, no problem, but if they are all going to be triple-headed, then you may need a 5 amp system. The number of running engines is the key, not necessarily trains.
Here's some food for thought:
Either a Digitrax Super Chief or NCE Power Pro wireless starter set will cost around $500 + power supply, so less say $550. The NCE system seems to cost a little more at most places, but not enough difference to matter if that's the system you really want.
You could get a Zephyr + DT402 + UR92 (wireless base station) for less than $500 (~$490 at one common dealer), and you would have a complete wireless system. For me, the fact that I can spend the money in chunks without it costing me anymore is a major plus, it's just easier to spend ~$500 in <$200 chunks than to save up and spend $500 all at once (this is pretty much the route I went).
The main things you give up with the Zephyr over the Chief is 3 amps of power instead of 5 and 22 lcoo slots instead of 120 (doesn't sound like that would be an issue for you). There are a few other features that the Zephyr does not have that the chief does:
You actually gain one feature with the Zephyr, and that is blast mode programming, which can be used for programming some sound decoders that are hard to program on program tracks. Plus, you do get the bonus of that extra throttle, which I find I use more than I thought I would, even after getting a DT402. For example, I have my program track next to my Zephyr, and for inital testing and programming a new decoder install I just use the Zephyr's throttle instead of getting out the DT402.
I looked at what it would take to upgrade from a Power Cab to wireless, and you can do it for even less (Power Cab + wireless Pro Cab + RB02 = ~$460) if you don't get a Smart Booster, but personally, I'm not a big fan of running more than a couple of engines with the Power Cab without the booster because it's like adding 14' (power supply to Power Cab + Power Cab to track) of relatively small gauge wire to your track bus.
You can save money on either the Zephyr or Power Cab path by getting one of the cheaper "engineer's" throttle, but I got the feeling you really want the full function throttles.
Regg, this is what your new NCE Power House Pro 5 amp wireless system will look like, complete with circuit breakers and AR units for your power districts. The wireless base station and antenna is up above, hanging down from the ceiling.
I am sitting in a recliner, throttle in my right hand, a stein of Beck's in my left hand as 4 trains (8 locos) travel around my double mainline layout.
This could be you.
You are really tempting me....a couple of ?s though? What are all those other circuit breakers for? Are those for switches? Can you send me a pic of your layout please if you don't mind....you can send it to me in a PM if you prefer.
Thanks,
Just replace one item on the top shelf and you have the exact same thing but powered by Digitrax.
Then there are all those RED LEDs....
For my planned basement empire, I intend to distribute boosters around the room rather than have a central electronics cabinet, just so the bus wires aren;t all so long. With any of the plans I've come up with so far, putting everything in one spot will lead to 50+ foot power bus runs.
And here's the Loconet advantage - the cab bus and the booster bus are two different things with NCE. It's all the same with Digitrax - so you likely already have the cable run for that, to connect a radio tranceiver, or cab plug in panels, or a signal driver board, so you can just plug in a booster if needed, anywhere along the line without running any extra wires.
rrinker Just replace one item on the top shelf and you have the exact same thing but powered by Digitrax. Then there are all those RED LEDs.... For my planned basement empire, I intend to distribute boosters around the room rather than have a central electronics cabinet, just so the bus wires aren;t all so long. With any of the plans I've come up with so far, putting everything in one spot will lead to 50+ foot power bus runs. And here's the Loconet advantage - the cab bus and the booster bus are two different things with NCE. It's all the same with Digitrax - so you likely already have the cable run for that, to connect a radio tranceiver, or cab plug in panels, or a signal driver board, so you can just plug in a booster if needed, anywhere along the line without running any extra wires.
Randy, you gotta admit, all of those RED LEDs look real pretty.
Regg, those circuit breakers are used to protect separate power districts. At one time, my layout, a large double mainline, was one big power district protected by a single 5 amp booster. But, I got tired of everything coming to a halt in the event of a derailment causing a momentary short. So, I divided the layout into separate power districts, each protected by its own circuit breaker. I added a second booster to distribute power more efficiently.
Incidentally, the advantage of a "central electronics cabinet" is that everything is in one place so you can spot a problem without running around the entire layout room. That is especially critical when you have a large layout. If you center the cabinet in the middle of your layout, as I did, the bus wires are not all that long.
Hence the "old style" Digitrax PM42 - since it connects to Loconet, it can report which section has tripped (and also manually turn on/off the power to a given section), which is something I can have down in the corner of a JMRI panel. Or you can hook all those PSX's to a stationary input decoder to do the same.
Depends on what you mean by "large" layout and how it's shaped - 100 total linear feet around the room is big but not huge in my book - that's about how big my layout will be, which is in an approximately 25x20 space missing a few chunks - it;s around the perimeter plus a couple of penninsulas. Locating in the middle of that means at least a 50 foot bus run to each side. Two boosters distributed means 25' bus runs to each side of each booster, MUCH better. 3 boosters gets that down under 17 feet. For a REALLY huge layout - those lucky people who have a barn-size space, I can;t imagine centralizing all power sources for something like that. You cna compensate for longer bus runs by using heavier wire, but for 100+ feet you need something like #8 wire to avoid too much voltage drop - #8 wire is expensive, and not exctly easy to manage. Phone cord is cheap - by spacing the boosters you can use #12 or even #14 wire if the runs are short enough, which is cheaper AND easier to work with. Even my 10x13 around the walls layout had almost 50 linear feet, 2x13 + 2x10. Booster was in the middle, each run was just under 25 feet. Since no section could really support more than a doubleheaded train per, #14 wire was plenty sufficient to not have any noticeable voltage drop.
rrinker You can compensate for longer bus runs by using heavier wire, but for 100+ feet you need something like #8 wire to avoid too much voltage drop - #8 wire is expensive, and not exctly easy to manage. Phone cord is cheap - by spacing the boosters you can use #12 or even #14 wire if the runs are short enough, which is cheaper AND easier to work with. Even my 10x13 around the walls layout had almost 50 linear feet, 2x13 + 2x10. Booster was in the middle, each run was just under 25 feet. Since no section could really support more than a doubleheaded train per, #14 wire was plenty sufficient to not have any noticeable voltage drop.
You can compensate for longer bus runs by using heavier wire, but for 100+ feet you need something like #8 wire to avoid too much voltage drop - #8 wire is expensive, and not exctly easy to manage. Phone cord is cheap - by spacing the boosters you can use #12 or even #14 wire if the runs are short enough, which is cheaper AND easier to work with. Even my 10x13 around the walls layout had almost 50 linear feet, 2x13 + 2x10. Booster was in the middle, each run was just under 25 feet. Since no section could really support more than a doubleheaded train per, #14 wire was plenty sufficient to not have any noticeable voltage drop.
One example is my home's low voltage lanscape lighting. Over a 100 foot run, I see almost no voltage drip.
On my layout, the voltage at the booster is 14.2 volts. The bus in each direction is 80 feet. Out at the extreme end of the run, the voltage is 14.2. So, where is the voltage drop?
richhotrain...On my layout, the voltage at the booster is 14.2 volts. The bus in each direction is 80 feet. Out at the extreme end of the run, the voltage is 14.2. So, where is the voltage drop?..
You are apparently trying to measuring the voltage drop without a load at the point where you are measuring. Voltage drop is directly proportional to the load (V=I*R), so no load, no drop. To correctly measure the voltage drop you have to do it with the anticipated maximum load.
CSX Robert richhotrain ...On my layout, the voltage at the booster is 14.2 volts. The bus in each direction is 80 feet. Out at the extreme end of the run, the voltage is 14.2. So, where is the voltage drop?.. You are apparently trying to measuring the voltage drop without a load at the point where you are measuring. Voltage drop is directly proportional to the load (V=I*R), so no load, no drop. To correctly measure the voltage drop you have to do it with the anticipated maximum load.
richhotrain ...On my layout, the voltage at the booster is 14.2 volts. The bus in each direction is 80 feet. Out at the extreme end of the run, the voltage is 14.2. So, where is the voltage drop?..
OK, my RRampMeter, which is wired inline about 3 feet from the booster shows voltage at 13.6. As I test voltage under load with my multimeter up and down the line, at the farthest point from the booster, I get a reading of 13.42, so I still don't see any significant voltage drop 80 feet away.
Check with the multimeter at the same palce as the rrampmeter and compare those two, since the multimeter isn't going to read the DCC waveform accurately.
However, load does matter - if you only ever run one powered loco, or a pair doubleheaded, there won;t be nearly as much voltage drop as if you had a dozen running on that part of the layout. Wire resistence is a set number of ohms per foot, based on wire size. That doesn't change. What does change is the load at the end of the line, and from the length of the wire (both sides of the circuit, so 80 feet away is 160 feet of wire x the ohms per foot) and the current we can calculate the voltage lost in the wire: E=IR. Now, some people just plug in 5 or 10 amps depending on their booster, but you have circuit breakers in there as well, and if you have them set at say 3 amps, there's no way you cna have a greater than 3 amp load at the end of that 80 foot bus wire. So that gives you worst case voltage drop. Actual voltage drop will be that or less, depending on how much current is being drawn at that point. For a 160 foot run (out and back) of #12 wire, you need about 4 amps to get a 1V drop, which is noticeable if the adjoing section does not have that drop - if you start out near the booster and run the train toawrds that firther point, you may not notice slowing, but if you cross gaps into another section that only has say a 10 foot bus run, there will be a 1V jump crossing those gaps and you'd see that.
Whatever works - if distributing the power sources so the bus runs are 20 feet or less, you can use #16 wire and still get less voltage drop at the same load than the 80 foot #12 bus - and #16 wire is a LOT cheaper than #12.
richhotrainOK, my RRampMeter, which is wired inline about 3 feet from the booster shows voltage at 13.6. As I test voltage under load with my multimeter up and down the line, at the farthest point from the booster, I get a reading of 13.42...
As Randy said, your multimeter is not going to read the same as the RRampMeter.
The RRampMeter is designed for the DCC squarewave, while the multimeter, unless it is a true RMS meter, is designed for a sinewave. Most multimeters will actually measure the average voltage and adjust for the RMS of an expected sine wave. When measuring a square wave, this will result in a measurement about 1.11 times as much (the RMS voltage of a sine wave = 1.11 * average voltage, but RMS voltage of a square wave = average voltage), so your 13.42 reading is probably closer to 12.1.
While that may well be all true, the fact remains that the voltage readings are nearly identical at the beginning and at the end of the bus. I don't see any significant voltage drop.
If you are measuring with the RRampMeter at one place and a regular multimeter at the other, then you can't compare the readings and you can't knowingly claim that there is no significant voltage drop.
I am using a multimeter to measure voltage at both points. I only mentioned the RRampMeter reading because when I put a load on the rails at the various measuring points, the multimeter voltage readings closely corresponded to the RRampMeter voltage readings.
I just found a used NCE Procab system on Ebay for about $300 and it's wireless. What you think? Looks to be in great shape and although a little over my budget since I was going to get the Power cab and upgrade later but this seems to be a good deal. Your thoughts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-PH-PRO-R-digital-command-control-system-/171766697727?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fe17ceff
I don`t see a transformer/power supply...you might want to in quire?
Am i ever gonna be able to lay any track???
I guess it was $299 when it was buy it now. Looks like it is now up for regular bidding.
Oh boy I just love eBay idiots. MAYBE he'll luck out and get it for $299. SHould have just gone for it, or stayed the heck out. Hpefull it wasn;t a friend of the seller's shilling.
You just missed a guy on the Digitrax list selling a DT402 and two DB150's for $300.
Yes I see it's up for regular bidding. Doesn't scare me too much since the DCC market is pretty much saturated with NCE and Digitrax. What I want to know is if people think it's a good deal since it's used and you have no way of testing it. I know it's going for almost $525-550 on Ebay If its meant for me to have it I will if not oh well there will be others. I plan on purchasing the system either way by Monday.
Nowhere do I read that the unit actually works, nor how old the unit is. Has it been upgraded?
This was his reponse
includes 5 amp power station--bought from high end train collector in Scottsdale az-if you have any hesitations please do not bid item powers up and appears to function properly
My original question to the seller
HiWhat all does this system include? Does it include the power supply or would I have to buy that? I know that its used but do you know how long its used? Are there any guarantee's if I receive item and it doesn't work?
So at this point I don't know. Seems like he wasn't much helpful and a little defensive if you asked me.
Regg05 Rich I just found a used NCE Procab system on Ebay for about $300 and it's wireless. What you think? Looks to be in great shape and although a little over my budget since I was going to get the Power cab and upgrade later but this seems to be a good deal. Your thoughts? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-PH-PRO-R-digital-command-control-system-/171766697727?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fe17ceff
If I were to buy one used, I would want the seller to be the owner. Whenever I am selling stuff on eBay, I stress the fact that I bought it new and that I am the original owner.
If it were me, I would pass on this one.
If I am in any way uncomfortable about a vendor's answer, I personally would not bid. Others may feel differently.
maxman If I am in any way uncomfortable about a vendor's answer, I personally would not bid. Others may feel differently.
Damn!
I guess I'm not going to get it because I do feel a little uncomfortable in the fact that I also saw the negative feedback and neutral one as well but would have been nice because all for $300 would be a good deal and it's wireless.
Now Rich I have to go ahead and purchase the NCE Powercab system and hope that is fine for my layout. Realized the NCE though is only 2amps and I thought it was 3 like the Digitrax starter system. The NCE says it can handle up to 4 locomotives, lets hope thats 4 locos with sound....OR I'm in trouble
4 locos with sound will be cutting it close with the Power Cab since each loco could draw 0.5 amps. If that is your plan to run a number of sound locos, four or more at a time, if it were me, I would consider the PH-Pro, 5 amp. It can be upgraded later to wireless.
I get a little bemused by ongoing NCE vs Digitrax debates. Its not as if these are the only systems available out there for the OP to consider. I run Lenz which was the best back in the day. Shame they didn't keep up the development. Anyway our club went through a selection process recently. Proponents of Lenz, Digitrax, NCE, MRC and Dynamis demonstrated their systems to members, most of whom had little DCC experience and the benefits of Loconet or no JMRI functionality of MRC had little meaning for them. They selected purely on the user exerience with is largely governed by the throttle.
Digitrax was dumped quickly. It was looked on as crude and poorly made and non user friendly, with a large learning curve. The The Digitrax wireless throttle doesn't even have an on/off switch and frankly looks crude.
MRC on the other hand has a nice form factor, looks well made and is intuative to use. Even has basic instructions on the throttle. The wireless throttle has an on/off switch and rechargeable batteries. All for a much lower cost than Digitrax.
Lenz was seen as too difficult to learn to use although the throttle was highlly regarded. No wireless option eliminated Lenz quickly.
What do you think won on the day?
Bill
Bill:
I hope the MRC system works out well for your club.
I chose the NCE Powercab mostly because of the throttle layout which is very similar the the MRC units. Ease of operation is the whole reason we are using DCC.
bagal What do you think won on the day?
I know there are some Lenz users here, but reading through their instruction book - the operation and programming on those throttles is insanely complex, with levels and levels of menus, perhaps because of the few buttons and also something is probably lost in the translation from German. Digitrax is much more straightforward.
bagalI get a little bemused by ongoing NCE vs Digitrax debates. Its not as if these are the only systems available out there for the OP to consider...
The OP himself said he had "pretty much narrowed it down to NCE and Digitrax", so I didn't see the need to talk about any other systems.
I am reasonably intelligent and feel I would be happy with any system once I had learned how to use it. It so happens that Digitrax is what my closest LHS sold back when I got mine. I have never had occasion to regret its purchase. It wasn't particularly difficult to master. I certainly didn't purchase it thinking it looked or felt cheap. It is what was available to me, and it has served me reliably ever since.
I narrowed it down to NCE and Digitrax because that is what everyone seems to run. Bachmann was out of the question even though it's system probably is by far the cheapest. Lenz was recommended to me honestly by the guy whose helping me with my layout but once I looked at what they offered and I didn't see a wireless offer not to mention the throttle seemed to basic eliminated it. MRC I will admit looked very close to NCE and what's crazy is I use and still have their DC powerpacks. They were the power packs of choice it seems for DC layout builders but in DCC they seem to gotten loss between the big two so I unfairly didn't even look too much into them like I did with NCE and Digitrax.
Maybe I should though look at MRC although the NCE is pretty much what I'm leaning to simply because it seems to be the best.
I started with a Digitrax Zephyr (got a used one on Ebay $77: 2.5amp model) and connected two wires to the track and I was running DCC. I have a fair size layout (18 x 22) and usually run 2 sound locos at a time with at least 10 others sitting in yard/siding. I added a DT402D wireless throttle a couple of years ago and rarely use the Zephyr except to control locos in the roundhouse. I don't know what the 'learning curve' is on Digitrax? I just started running and the manual pretty much tells all. I am 74 now and went to DCC about 4-5 years ago. One other feature of the Digitrax system is you can run DC locos using the 00 address; not a recommended practice but handy when you need to try a new non-DCC engine.
I still haven't found the need for more amps but it is easy to do if I ever want/need to . This is just my experience with Digitrax and I am sure the NCE system is quite as good.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
farrellaa Regg, I started with a Digitrax Zephyr .....and connected two wires to the track and I was running DCC. I don't know what the 'learning curve' is on Digitrax? I just started running and the manual pretty much tells all.
I started with a Digitrax Zephyr .....and connected two wires to the track and I was running DCC. I don't know what the 'learning curve' is on Digitrax? I just started running and the manual pretty much tells all.
richhotrain bagal What do you think won on the day? NCE
We are very happy with our choice.
bagal richhotrain bagal What do you think won on the day? NCE You hit the jackpot Rich! The HO section purchased a wireless NCE system. One factor in the decision was that the throttle offers both the thumbwheel and buttons for speed control and the throttle, despite its size, works well for one handed operation. The MRC and Digitrax throttles are really two handed operation. We are very happy with our choice. Bill
You hit the jackpot Rich! The HO section purchased a wireless NCE system. One factor in the decision was that the throttle offers both the thumbwheel and buttons for speed control and the throttle, despite its size, works well for one handed operation. The MRC and Digitrax throttles are really two handed operation.
bagal...The MRC and Digitrax throttles are really two handed operation...
I find the Digitrax throttles quite easy to use one-handed.
Me too. Mainly because you reverse by clicking the speed knob - so I hold my DT402 down at my side in one hand, my thumb on the knob to spin it for speed control and able to press it to change direction, leaving my other hand free to uncouple or operate turnouts or whatever. The NCE throttle is HUGE in comparison to the DT402. I only look when selecting a differnet address, but I can't even dial my phone or type without looking, so even if there were only 10 buttons total I'd still be looking.
CSX Robert bagal ...The MRC and Digitrax throttles are really two handed operation... I find the Digitrax throttles quite easy to use one-handed.
bagal ...The MRC and Digitrax throttles are really two handed operation...
I'm a small guy with average sized man's hands. I can operate my DT400 with one hand and control two locos concurrently due to its design with two encoder knobs at the top. I do it at least once each sesson. I don't know what these others guys are on about. Sounds like a limitation to me.
Ebay currently has a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with the dual throttle for $160 bidding...bidding ends tonight. Talked to the store owner and it is slightly used but he says in excellent condition. I bidded on it. Since that normally would go for over $400 and it's already 5amps I think and has included power supply, too good of a dealto pass up.
Rich it must be in the cards for me to get this if I win it. I was on there to buy the NCE Power cab but if I can get this for under $200 I'll gladly take it.
Digitrax Super Empire Builder???
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
That is indeed a deal. Current price is less than the throttle alone costs.
Do note that is a DT400, not DT402, so it only goes to F12. For $25, Digitrax will upgrade it to a DT402. Or for $65, a DT402D duplex radio throttle, but you'd need to buy a UR92 to use it.
If I needed another booster you'd have a bidding war on your hands.
Quite a finish to that eBay auction.
Now you see why you put an odd number of cents in your bid. $250, but oops, the other guy has $250.01, he wins. Still a super deal at $250.
Awh, so it boiled down to "Regg, get the NCE", "Oh-no Regg get the Digitrax"!!! NCE/Digitrax, lets call the whole thing off!
I have absolutly no doubt that Regg will be happy with his purchase, good luck! And, it only took 105 entries to put this one down in the books, amazing!
rrinker Now you see why you put an odd number of cents in your bid. $250, but oops, the other guy has $250.01, he wins. Still a super deal at $250. --Randy
eBay bidding could be the topic of a whole new thread, but as a buyer, I always look at the incremental bid system. Depending upon the amount of the last bid, I make sure that I have entered not only my highest desired bid, but also one more bid increment plus 1 cent or maybe 5 cents or 10 cents just to be sure.
Here is eBay's bid increment table:
richhotrainQuite a finish to that eBay auction.
Link to the auction? I looked and didn't see any used items listed.
Search completed items for Super Empire Builder, it was the first one a few minutes ago. Edit - still is.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitrax-Super-Empire-Builder-DCC-System-w-Power-Supply-Super-Throttle-/291449174066?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dbb97832
I didn't get it. I was on my way home when the auction expired. I had maximum bid at $250 and thought I had it for sure but i was outbid by a freakin penny so I lost it. My phone notified me when it was to late for me to rebid.....so sick!
But just like the NCE system last week and the Digitrax this week, I'll hold off until I come across another find. I'm sure it won't be too long.
I've heard there is evil software that will automatically outbid someone - sounds like thats what happened. Keep trying and you'll end up with a system. Also, you might want to check some of the yahoo groups for people interested in selling a system used in good condition.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I keep hearing about the yahoo systems. How do I get on the groups and what are their names? I'm sure someone may know someone who is selling a good system and I can get what I want at a good price.
Regg05I keep hearing about the yahoo systems. How do I get on the groups and what are their names?
The main group site is www.groups.yahoo.com
Once you get there you'll have to search for the group that you want, and then there is a joining process. Usually no cost to join. Two such groups are HOSwap and HOExchange. However, I don't remember seeing any DCC equipment come up for sale, but I may not have been paying attention.
There are also groups that are specific to various users, such as JMRI, NCE, Loksound, and Digitrax.
Here is the link to NCE-DCC group on Yahoo.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/conversations/messages
Regg, it is the only link that you will ever need.
Regg05 I didn't get it. I was on my way home when the auction expired. I had maximum bid at $250 and thought I had it for sure but i was outbid by a freakin penny so I lost it. My phone notified me when it was to late for me to rebid.....so sick! But just like the NCE system last week and the Digitrax this week, I'll hold off until I come across another find. I'm sure it won't be too long. Regg
Dangit! Now I suppose we have to start over!
Here is the way to find the Digitrax Group, go to www.yahoogroups.com and in the "Search Groups" box type in "Digitrax". Everything, absolutly everything you ever wanted to know about the best DCC manufacturer in the world is at your fingertips!
Here ya go, Regg, only $84 per month for 6 months.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-2-DCC-PowerHouse-Pro-5-Amp-Radio-system-set-BRAND-NEW-PH-PRO-R-524-2-/151623897900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234d7d132c
Your NCE Buddy, Rich
richhotrain Here ya go, Regg, only $84 per month for 6 months. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-2-DCC-PowerHouse-Pro-5-Amp-Radio-system-set-BRAND-NEW-PH-PRO-R-524-2-/151623897900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234d7d132c Your NCE Buddy, Rich
I wonder why NCE is so expensive?
NP2626 richhotrain Here ya go, Regg, only $84 per month for 6 months. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-2-DCC-PowerHouse-Pro-5-Amp-Radio-system-set-BRAND-NEW-PH-PRO-R-524-2-/151623897900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234d7d132c Your NCE Buddy, Rich I wonder why NCE is so expensive?
richhotrain NP2626 richhotrain Here ya go, Regg, only $84 per month for 6 months. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-2-DCC-PowerHouse-Pro-5-Amp-Radio-system-set-BRAND-NEW-PH-PRO-R-524-2-/151623897900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234d7d132c Your NCE Buddy, Rich I wonder why NCE is so expensive? $84 a month is nothing for a man of Regg's means. Rich
$84 a month is nothing for a man of Regg's means.
Because its the 5amp Radio Throttle system.
How goes the battle Regg05?
Hello Folks,
So I wanted to wait until it was final and I received it in the mail but I got my DCC system and I couldn't pass the price up as I negotiated with the seller for two weeks and I ended up going with Digitrax 5 amp wireless system. I got it for $415 shipped brand new so I felt like that was a deal that I couldnt pass up.
Just found out after I opened it that I need another power supply. The power supply that came with it is for the ur92 wireless receiver. So not a happy camper but otherwise can't complain.
So I guess Randy was right and
Sorry Rich I was really planning on getting NCE but the Digitrax won out.
Regg05 Sorry Rich I was really planning on getting NCE but the Digitrax won out.