As I wade through my benchwork and tracklaying, I'm thinking ahead to train control. I am going DCC for certain.
I have narrowed it down to 2 starter sets, Digitrax Zephyr and NCE Power Cab.
Layout has total track length of 136ft. Have two loops that can run interference free with one another as well as a small yard around a mill. At most I might have 3 locos going at once. Not sure that I want to control my turnouts with DCC, I need a picture to be sure which switch I'm throwing. I have 2 locos with DCC installed, Aethern Genesis GP9 and Con-Cor MP15, my 3rd is a Bachman Spectrum 2-8-2 light mountain that is DCC ready. I would like to buy another Aethern GP9 so I could consist.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
I've had the original Zephyr for 14 years. Over the years I expanded it with extra throttles, and a DB150 booster. The original Zephyr can run 12 trains at a time, none of my layouts since I got it could handle more than that, including my previous room size layout, so the Zephyr has always been the command station, though I seldom use the console to control anything - on that layout, it sat underneath and the track power from it ran my stationary decoders. Track power came from the DB150 configured as a booster. My current planned layout will likely handle more than 12 trains at once (if enough people come over), so I will have to expand again, as this layout will fill my basement.
The Zephyr Xtra that is the current product can run up to 22 trains, which would probably even be enough for my under design layout. It doesn;t have enough power for 22, you'd have to add boosters, but my original Zephyr has 2.5 amps and I had as many as 8 locos, 4 with sound, running at the same time with it. The Zephyr Xtra is 3 amps, so you should be able to run at least that many, if not more.
I chose Digitrax mostly because of the Loconet bus which connects all the components. They have more third party support than any other DCC branch (devices compatible with Loconet - throttles, signal systems, block detectors, etc). The Loconet bus handles the throttles, command station to booster communications, block detection feedback, and signal drivers, and can handle quite a lot of this without becoming overloaded. None of the others has anything close.
Both systems are fully exampandle to the top of the line offerings without tossing anything away, the original system still provides service in an upgraded system. There's a slight advantage to Digitrax since the Zephyr unit can still function as a 3 amp booster when you expand by adding a 5 amp DCS100 command station for 120 loco capacity. The PowerCab becomes a full ProCab on an expanded NCE system, but the 1.5 amps of track power is only usable if you install the PowerCab panel as a workbench test track. PowerCab is walkaround out of the box, Zephyr is a console. Digitrax allows you to program locos on the program track while the layout remains in operation, with no effect on running trains. Even the top NCE system can only do one at a time. Both are supported by JMRI for automation, panels, computer throttles, and use of Apple and Android phones as throttles. If you already have an Apple or Android smartphone or tablet, this is the cheapest way to get wireless throttles - obtain the approriate computer interface for either system, install JMRI on your computer, and install either WiThrottle (Apple) or Engine Driver (Android) on your device. As long as you have WiFi in your house, that's it. You now have wireless throttles. This does not use or require a cellular connection, so it works with old devices as long as they have WiFi, even if the SIM card was removed, and it works with WiFi only devices like iPads without cellular or iPod Touches. There are also periodic deals on 'good enough' Android phones with no-contract service for as little as $10-$20. They may not be powerful enough to run all the coolest Android games, but they are fine for the EngineDriver app. And considering both NCE and Digitrax wireless throttles are well over $100 just for the throttle...
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I also have an original Zephyr and have had it since shortly after Digitrax started offering the Zephyr. I added a UT 4 double throttle to the system and have 17 locos and have to release locos to run some that don't get used all that much. My Zephyr is exactly the right system for me, My mainline is probably close to the O.P.'s in length and the system without a booster has functioned flawlessly since it's installation. I could not ask for a better system!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I started with the NCE Power Cab. Then added a SB 3 booster to make the system a 5 amp system. have added two more throttles so I can have friends operate with me now.
I liked the easy to read and understand read out of the throttle. Fit into my hand well too.
Very user friendly system!
Both systems would work, but the real deal maker/breaker is what are people in your area using? You can borrow throttles when you have a session so it will not be necessary to buy all the throttles you need at start up. I use a digitrax Zephyr myself and have plans to get a larger system when my layout grows up. I already have plans to use radio throttles for the most part, but I started with a UT1 that a friend gave me and have since purchased a couple UT4 throttles as the layout is still small. They Zephyr will be repurposed to run two disconnected (from the main layout) float yard operations when the layout is moved to it's permanent location.
So I say go with what your friends have, that way you can borrow equipment and lean on their expertise when you need it as it is always easier to work with someone locally.
sevenbrewer Both systems would work, but the real deal maker/breaker is what are people in your area using? You can borrow throttles when you have a session so it will not be necessary to buy all the throttles you need at start up. I use a digitrax Zephyr myself and have plans to get a larger system when my layout grows up. I already have plans to use radio throttles for the most part, but I started with a UT1 that a friend gave me and have since purchased a couple UT4 throttles as the layout is still small. They Zephyr will be repurposed to run two disconnected (from the main layout) float yard operations when the layout is moved to it's permanent location. So I say go with what your friends have, that way you can borrow equipment and lean on their expertise when you need it as it is always easier to work with someone locally.
Who's to say the O.P. will be operating with other people and why would what other people use, influance what I want to use? From the little I know about DCC systems all of them are pretty easy to use (meaning run trains with). Beyond this, I would prefer any friends/operators using my system, not be messing with any programing functions on my system which is taylored to my wants and is none of their business messing with!
I use the wireless NCE system. I chose it over others for a few reasons, mostly because it was (at the time) the simplest interface and the consisting was super easy. Super easy consisting is important to me because the line I model ran everything in big lashups. It's been a long time and maybe things have changed, but why spend thousands to fix what isn't broken? Honestly, I have had very little experience with the other systems on the market since mine has treated me so well. I have had my NCE system for a long time and it has worked so well that I have not felt the need to try anything else
NP2626Who's to say the O.P. will be operating with other people and why would what other people use, influance what I want to use? From the little I know about DCC systems all of them are pretty easy to use (meaning run trains with).
Regardless of the OP's social circle, I think "buy what your friends have" is an outdated idea. The help and advice online far exceed what you can get locally in responsiveness, quality, and quantity. Also, it seems most clubs and other layouts large enough to have guest operators are moving toward smartphone throttle support. The modular layouts at the train show I attended a few weeks ago were all using them.
They are both good systems and both have their share of advocates. You can't go wrong with either. Maybe the choice of hand held vs stationary is the tie breaker for you, but then you can add hand held throttles to the Zephyr.
I chose Digitrax. With computer centric operation the alledged ease of use of the NCE system had no value to me and I liked Loconet. I also think the NCE throttles are a little clunky.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I pulled the trigger on the same decision about a month ago. I decided on the Zephyr and haven't regretted the decision.
Richard
well, if you have no friends, it wouldn't matter. Your friends shouldn't be messing with your system, otherwise they aren't really friends are they?
But since most people DO have friends...it helps to work with their knowledge base.
I chose the Zephyr Extra and have been pleased with my decision.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I don't have either system, but I run on layouts that have both Digi-Trax and NCE. I much prefer the NCE system for ease of understanding. The first time I was handed an NCE throttle, I could easily figure it out on my own. The first time I was handed a Digi-Trax throttle (the one with a gazillion buttons and tiny display), I really didn't know how to proceed.
That being said, it's what you learn to use. Any system will have a learning curve. I've just come to like the feel of the NCE throttle better with the bigger display and easy to read larger buttons. Plus, it feels better in my hand.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Mark R.The first time I was handed an NCE throttle, I could easily figure it out on my own. The first time I was handed a Digi-Trax throttle (the one with a gazillion buttons and tiny display), I really didn't know how to proceed.
Ok, so with an NCE Pro Cab or Power Cab to select a loco for running you press "Select Loco", enter the address and press "Enter". On a Digitrax DT402 you press "Loco", enter the address and press "Enter".
I guess Digitrax really should have lableled that button "Select Loco" instead of just "Loco". Seriously, though, there's certainly a lot more to a DCC system than just selecting and running a loco, and I would have to say that NCE is a little easier to use than Digitrax overall; however, I would also say that a lot of NCE users exagerate the difference. If you understand DCC, both systems are easy to use, and if you don't understand it, you'll probably have issues with both. I would personally put the "ease of use" factor as one of the last thigs to look at because I feel they are so close in that regard.
Mark R....The first time I was handed a Digi-Trax throttle (the one with a gazillion buttons...
I see a lot of people, often NCE users, refer to the large number of buttons on a Digitrax throttle. A Digitrax DT402 has 32 buttons, or 34 if you count the encoders (the encoders can be pressed in like a button to change loco direction). Guess how many an NCE Pro/Power Cab has.....34!.
CSX Robert Mark R. ...The first time I was handed a Digi-Trax throttle (the one with a gazillion buttons... I see a lot of people, often NCE users, refer to the large number of buttons on a Digitrax throttle. A Digitrax DT402 has 32 buttons, or 34 if you count the encoders (the encoders can be pressed in like a button to change loco direction). Guess how many an NCE Pro/Power Cab has.....34!.
Mark R. ...The first time I was handed a Digi-Trax throttle (the one with a gazillion buttons...
Now there's something I never actually counted. LOL
I have used the basic control anaology many times though. The basic process for running a train is exactly the same for both systems, just the NCE button says "Select Loco" and the Digitrax button says "Loco". Both have numbers 0-9 so you can just key in the address without scrolling through numbers with the knob (though you can, with both, if you really want to). Though why a layout owner would hand someone unfamiliar with the system the full feature throttle with any system is kind of beyond me, that's why both systems also have simpler basic throttles that are designed to simply run a train, not program things, not control the system, etc.
I too find the DT40x throttles easier to operate one handed, since I can roll the knob with my thumb and you just click it to reverse direction. No need to look at it once you've keyed in your loco number.
Where the systems differe is in the advanced non-train running stuff. However, both work with JMRI, which makes programming a lot simpler than either system's handheld. In which case the process becomes exactly identical because it's JMRI's interface being used with both systems.
My friends who I show how to operate my Zephyr system have no problem selecting locos, turning the control knob to add or subtract throttle or twisting the forward, neutral/brake and reverse toggle. In ten minutes they will have a handle on how to operate two trains from my hand held UT-4 throttle. Beyond knowing how to do the things I show them, they have no business.
I have no problems with people in this thread explaining what system they own and how well they feel it works! I bought the system I have and understand how it works (pretty much)! We all are going to think our systems are the best as after all, we buy only the best, right? So, if we bought the best there is, doesn't it make sense that all the rest are junk?
(The last paragraph was stated in jest).
Thanks all, always good to have a little more to think on.
Next up Ford or Chevy......
PKRobbins Thanks all, always good to have a little more to think on. Next up Ford or Chevy......
Dodge!
PKRobbins Next up Ford or Chevy......
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I've had a Zephyr for over 10 years. Love it. I mostly operate alone. Three trains are all I can keep track of at one time. Zephyr handles them. I also have a half dozen locos with sound rumbling around the layout in various places and yards, and sidings.