Many thanks Rich & Randy!
Dan
Just use Rich's circuit and put the red of the mainline in parallel with the green of the dwarf, and vice-versa.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Dannyboy6 Thanks Rich. I have a single searchlight on the main and a dwarf on the siding. With normal traffic on the main the Searchlight should show green and the dwarf red. When the tortoise switch is thrown, the searchlight on the main goes to red, and the dwarf goes to green. That's what I was trying to achieve. Dan
Thanks Rich.
I have a single searchlight on the main and a dwarf on the siding. With normal traffic on the main the Searchlight should show green and the dwarf red. When the tortoise switch is thrown, the searchlight on the main goes to red, and the dwarf goes to green. That's what I was trying to achieve.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks Lion.
The cost is why I bought the BMLA searchlight heads only [2 pack for $20]. I will scratchbuild the masts and bases form either styrene or brass.
Dan, aren't you just wanting to turn the signal red when the Tortoise throws the turnout points divergent and red when the Totoise throws the turnout points straight through?
Or are you interested in more of a block occupancy signal?
Singal logic of LION is controlled by sensors (reed switches and magnets on the train) and Relays. LION has one block for each platform edge, the sensor is just before the station. When tripped the entire degment behind the train goes to red, and the segment behind that goes to yellow. The third segment back returns to green.
The problem is that these segments are much longer than the blocks. I have three or four signals protecting a segment, and they all work in unision. So a train leaving one station will not trip any red signals behind it until it gets to the next station. It seems odd for a train to leave green lights in its wake, but fixing that would require hundreds more relays and another mile or more of wires to connect them. It is good enough. It has to be, I can do no better.
And forget about purchased devices at $35 to $50 per device we wouold be looking at $10,000.00 and is a non-starter on anybody's layout.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Another great nugget to chew on; thanks Randy!
If you can DIY, Rob Paisley probably has a circuit that woudl work, also. And be way cheaper than teh Signal Animator. For simpel red/green, all it would need to be is a timer triggered by a single photosensor. You'd put that by the signal, as the train crossed over it, the signal would change to red. Some time later, after the train has passed, it would go back to green. Slightly more complex would have it drop to red, then after a delay go to yeloow and after a slightly longer delay, back to green. Though this is essentially what the Signal Animator is. The changing with no one obviously pushing a button somewhere is what draws in the viewers, even the kids - one of the first palces they stop when our layout is set up for shows are the two towns that have working grade crossing flashers. Then they discover the working drive-in with cartoons playing. Finally they will catch the color shift of a signal changing - our layout is fully signalled with block detection and turnout position sensing, controlled by a dispatcher. I've seen kids then follow a train all the way around the layout watching each and every signal aspect change.
Oh the UPS truck crashed into a Fedex truck with the working police and fire flashers is also a big hit, for a few seconds, since it just continuously runs. Adults get that one more, especially because behind them, a DHL truck drives on past.
Thanks for your comments and help Randy.
The reason I did this was partly for expediancy. This module, while it will become part of a larger layout, is for a talk I have to give at our Library this coming Saturday. I simply wanted to be able to throw a switch and have the lights light up for each route to demo a lighted signal. Plus I still have some scenery to finish, etc.
There may be children in the group, and they will likely not understand signal logic even if it was explained...and that's not the focus of the talk; it's just about Model Railroading in general and how to build a module to get started. I'm Asst Superintendent of our NMRA Division and this is for one of our monthly meetings.
I get way into the weeds on other projects [having built a fully operational coal loading tipple for example, and scratch built a number of major scenes on my former O scale layout] but I have not gotten into wiring LEDs as I've purchased mine in the past from Evans Designs. Like many of us, my hobby time is at a premium, and up until now, I chose to buy LEDs.
My posting was to seek some help to get this off the bench quickly, and to wire to terminal blocks on the module so some logic could be added later. The comments here allowed me to do just that and I'm grateful for the help.
Thanks again for your help!
I have to say, I don;t think I've EVER seen anyone just set up a signal, especially a top quality one, only to operate it via a toggle switch. Even out holiday-only layout when I was a kid, the one signal we had actually fitted on top of an Atlas switch machine - notice they have a little pin that sticks up for manual operation, even the powered ones, at least, the older ones did - and that pin engaged a build in sliding contact that changed it from red to greeen.
Now I know most aren't electrical geniuses, but you have 3 color LEDs and a common wire, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to switch them on and off. Don't overcomplicate things. It's no different than 3 light bulbs or 3 totally seperate LEDs. So what if they are physcially inside one signal head? Physical placement has no bearing on the electrical wiring.
A good option for an isolated module would be a simple device like the Logic Rail Signal Animator. At least thent he signal would change when a train passes by, and it does not need to hook to whatever adjoining modules there are, it can be strictly limited to your module. It does not connect to the rails for detection. That's what people want to see - things change by the train passing by. Doesn't matter if it's exactly prototypical, just that the train rolling by makes something happen. Not that the train rolls by and if you happen to be there to flip the switch, the signal changes.
I agree Jim, on your points about BMLA quality, responsiveness, and that they need to consider that there are many of us that eiher don't want to install a full system, or are building modules on which we want to throw some signals independent of a system. You guys have been a great help; thank you!
I've emailed Craig at BLMA about this and other applications and there is no wiring diagramn offered for using a simple toggle or rotary switch to throw red/green or yellow. Customers are referred to the site's logic and relay manufacturer's recommendations. As a newbie to signals and an electrical dunce, I was disappointed that I couldn't be provided with a schematic to do the simple DC toggle/rotary install.
I too was helped by the very generous folks on this forum and one in particular so that I can proceed. I haven't ordered the 4 BLMAs yet but like their detail level best.
I do want to say that Craig has always been very good about responding to emails quickly and I own two of his truss bridges so very happy with BLMA. Just wish they'd realize that sigalling is intimidating for beginners and had a couple of basic diagrams in addition to the circuit/logic companies' list.
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Thanks Randy, great info!
1/4 watt resistor whould be plenty. The wattage rating of the resistor is how much power it can dissipate. As long as it's the right value, 1K ohms for a 12V power supply, if you use too small a one, it won't damage the signals, but it could melt the resistor.
You need to calculate the cirrent, by using the voltage drop of the LED. Let's say it's 2.5V, and you are using a 12V power supply. That leaves 9.5 volts. With a 1K resistor, that's 9.5 ma. You can use watt= current ^2 x resistance to calculate the power. Works out to .0903 watts. Since a 1/8 watt resistor is .125 watts, even a 1/8 watt is plenty. 1/4 watt give plenty of overhead, you'll never come near it. Only real difference in resistors is, as the wattage goes up, the size goes up. So for mounting under the layout, it doesn;t really matter. If you have 1K 10 watt resistors laying around you could use them, but they are pretty huge - bigger than the signal itself. Just don;t go below 1/8 watt in this application.
You're right Lion! Oh my... ;0)
Dannyboy6 Thanks Rich, that helps a bunch. After looking at Lion's diagram more closely, I now understand what he's done. Thanks for the link Paul! Dan
Thanks Rich, that helps a bunch. After looking at Lion's diagram more closely, I now understand what he's done.
Thanks for the link Paul!
BTW, LION does not run most of the signals off of his Torti machines. Block signals are controlled by track relays, Home signals (the kind found by switches) are operated by a lever in the tower, as per prototype.
Still in locations where LION uses just one lever for the switches and the home signals it is done as shown in the diagram.
You do not even want to know about the LION's track relays...
LION does not use 1/8 Watt resistors, they are far more expensive than the 1/4 Watt. LION buys 1K ohm by the thousand at all electronics, figure 01.2c each, vs 7c each for the 1/8th Watt which as of a few moments ago were not evel listed for 1K ohm.
LION uses 1/2 watt for the track resistors (part of LION's automated train operation), these are very much undersized but work fine as a train is only passsing over them for a few seconds. If a train should short out over them, they will burn, and maybe even catch fire, what with the LION's big 12 AMP regulated power supply that will not even see a 5 amp draw, but will just pum put more current. For this LION uses 12 volt truck lamps in series with the railroad. Normall the trains do not pull enought crrent to light the lamps, but in a dead short on the track, the lighats will eat the power and tell me that there is a problem.
I used to use 1/2 watt resistors on the LEDs, but I eventually switched to 1/4 watt resistors without any problem. I cannot comment on 1/8 watt resistors, never having used them.
Here's one of several resistor calculators if interested, but it requires knowing the LED voltage drop and milliamp requirements. I was interested (in my case for structure lighting) where the shift from 1/8 to 1/4 watt resistors happens.
http://ledcalc.com/
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
It's not a sophisticated schematic, but it works.
Thanks Rich, that's what I'm trying to do. Have you ever diagramed it?Dan
I run a pair of wires from the DC power supply to a DPDT on my control panel, and use the DPDT to control a Tortoise which is throwing the points on the turnout. I use one of the two Tortoise switches to control the searchlight functions and then run wires back to the DC power supply from the Tortoise and the searchlight to complete the circuit.
Dannyboy6 Thanks Rich, 12V Wall wort, right?
Thanks Rich, 12V Wall wort, right?
Dan, in this case, there is more than one way to skin a cat (no offense, LION).
I use Tomar searchlights which only have green and red LEDs. I put a 1/4 watt resistor on each LED. I would rather be safe than sorry. Since the red LED always seems brighter than the green LED, I use a 1K ohms resistor on the green and a 1.5K resistor on the red. I use a DC power pack to power the searchlights.
Thanks Br. Elias,
The BMLA H2 Searchlights have 3 seperate LEDs per head. They are designed as common anode wired, one wire for RYG, and a common wire. I understand the 1k Ohms resistor, and that you say that it only needs to be on the common leg? Should it be a 1/8, 1/4, or 1/2 watt resistor? Does your diagram still hold true given this info?
Thanks!
Not knowing anything about BLMA signals (LION builds his own from scratch), ewe only knead one resistor. I put it on the common leg. I can get away with this because only one aspect is lit at any one time.
If you are using two aspect signals, you can ignore the terminals on the Tortoise, and wire them in parallel with the tortoise as thus:
As you can see, I use ONE conductor to each tortoise, with a common ground. +12v dc = normal route; -12v dc = the reverse route. Much easier wiring.