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BEST loco to try to convert from DC to DCC and sound

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  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 273 posts
Posted by LOCO_GUY on Monday, October 20, 2014 9:27 PM

Thanks to all for the informative replies.

1. I think the optivisor is a good idea - never even heard of them. 

2. I have my own server so I can post pictures of projects there - it's just getting round to doing it.

3. Thanks for the advice on locos using the frame for grounding.

All-in-all, I'm getting excited and a bit worried about doing a conversion.

I'll have to take in all the advice in this thread and then make a decision. The optivisor sounds good as a first step so I can actually see what I am doing :-)

 

Chris.

Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.

Sit back and enjoy your track...

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Posted by richg1998 on Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:20 PM

modelmaker51

It sounds like that the first thing you need to get is a pair of Optivisors so you can see what you're doing!

 

Get an Optivisor with a super bright LED on each side of the device.

Decoders with 1.5 volt output are for light bulbs. Will not work for LED's.I found a thread somewhere else and their were complaints about dim bubls using the 1.5 volt option. I think the Tsunami but not sure.

Use the 12 volt output with a 1k resistor.

If it is an older loco with light bulbs, the light bulb will always have 12 volts on it with DCC and might start melting the plastic shell. Has happened. Older locos with 12 volt bulbs, the power pack was never turned up to 12 volts.

Many put in LED's

The decoder specs are at each decoder manufacturers website

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:27 PM

It sounds like that the first thing you need to get is a pair of Optivisors so you can see what you're doing!

Jay 

C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1 

Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

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Posted by richg1998 on Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:15 PM

There is no best, only what works best for you.

I see many like LokSound, many Tsunami, TCS is coming out with WOW sound decodrs. No idea about other brands.

 

Something very important. Some DC only locos have the motor brushes connected to the frame. The pickup power is routed through the frame to the motor and lights.

Some motors, the motor frame halves are internally connected to the brushes. Kapton tape and nylon screws are needed.

Knowledge of using a multimeter is a great advantage. Look for continuity where none should exist between the motor brushes and frame.

First DCC power up should be on the programming track. The DCC controller in program mode will be current limiting and usually identify a mis-wire.

Figure around $20 for non sound and about $100 or more for sound decoder. LokSound cost a little more.

The Stay Alive cap with the Tsunami is only for sound. For complete stay alive, a stay alive module. SoundTraxx has their own version. Other decoder manufactures have their own version which are all super caps with a resistor and diode.

 

Excellent DCC info below. He has a lot of Good links. Take your time. A few sentiences or paragraphs are good but a picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.mrdccu.com/

You might consider a Photo Bucket account for posting pictures of your project here.

http://photobucket.com/

Stay Alive info. He also has an excellant DCC site.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:47 AM

One thing that you should consider is that it is cheaper to buy a sound-equipped locomotive than it is to buy a DC engine, a quality decoder and speaker with enclosure.

I would second the idea of installing a non-sound decoder first.  Even though I've done a number of sound installations myself, I still typically do that.  When I get a new engine, or something like the $15 Athearn switcher deal from a train show, I have a couple of older basic decoders that I can wire in just to get the engine runninng.  Then, later on, I will upgrade to sound and put that basic decoder back in my parts box for the next one.

As a fellow old guy, I've got a couple of suggestions.  First, get a magnifying lamp or an Optivisor.  I found a magnifying lamp at an electronics place for $15, and it makes a lot of small detail work a lot easier.  Second, get a couple of basic structure kits from City Classics or DPM, now part of Woodland Scenics, or some unpainted figures.  Go to a craft store and get cheap acrylic paint and some brushes.  I found that painting small details on structures, like window frames and doors, helped me recover some of those fine muscle skills and made my hand more steady for other detail work.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by basementdweller on Friday, October 17, 2014 10:09 PM

As far as sound installation here is my suggestion, get a good quality loco That runs flawless. You will enjoy your sound loco far more if it runs smooth rather than converting an blue box Athearn For example. 

The suggestion of buying a newer loco designed for sound is a good idea, I recently bought an HO Atlas S2 switcher and I installed a Loksound micro and speaker and it was very straight forward. 

I have put a Tsunami In an older P2k sw1200 and it was tough as there was not enough room.  

Check out the TCS website as it has great installation tips etc.

as far as soldering, practice on some old circuit boards first, a hot clean pencil type soldering iron and just a touch to a soldering pad on the board or speaker is all you need, very easy.

Sound is well worth the effort. Good luck.

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Posted by Kyle on Friday, October 17, 2014 10:02 PM

An Athearn  GP38-2 or GP40-2.  They have a metal frame and fuel tank, so no weight is needed in the shell.  They utilize the metal strips still, so you can  just pull it out and solder wires to the truck pick ups and the frame. I would also take out the light, and install LEDs. 

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Posted by LOCO_GUY on Friday, October 17, 2014 7:09 PM
Richard, That might be a good idea - I could always sell it on if I did it correctly - if not then swallow the cost. I learned from my DC days that not every attempt at making things better resulted in a "better result". You only have to look in my spare parts box to figure that out :-)

Chris.

Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.

Sit back and enjoy your track...

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Posted by cowman on Friday, October 17, 2014 7:02 PM

You might want to start by converting one to DCC with no sound, just to see what your capabilities are.  If you mess it up, the decoder is much less expensive than one with sound.  Much easier to install a decoder than a decoder and speaker.  If you feel comfortable doing that, take the next step.  Evidently some locos take quite a bit of work to put the speaker in.  Having it done professionally is expensive, don't ask how I know.  Buying one all set up is often the best price, but is it what you want, with a good sounding decoder having the sounds you want?  That is the question you have to ask yourself.

Good luck,

Richard

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Posted by LOCO_GUY on Friday, October 17, 2014 6:25 PM

So I did a little looking around for DCC sound cards. They need a 1.5 volt bulb to work from the decoder so I assume that's a real bulb (incandescent) not an LED as that has a polarity issue - or would either work?

Looking through all the stuff you have to do with conversion - I'm getting a little worried that after the expense of getting a decent loco, DCC & sound decoder - plus speaker this is going to be a labor of love - when I could just buy something off the shelf.

Does anyone have opinions on what the best option is. I'm not bad at doing a bit of electrical work (but 30+ years in the computer industry has left me with not so good eyesight) plus I could solder a tiny joint years ago but now I can hardly see what I'm doing without "helping hands" and I could overheat the decoder spending too much time trying to get a joint to hold.

Anyhoo, any help or support would be much appreciated.

 

 

Chris.

Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.

Sit back and enjoy your track...

  • Member since
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Posted by LOCO_GUY on Friday, October 17, 2014 1:52 PM
Thanks for the replies. Gives me things to think about. I didn't even think about room for the speaker - I was more concerned about the circuit board. Good job I asked the question :-) I would have looked stupid with an nice conversion job and no room for a speaker. A couple of folks round here have said that the loksound decoder is a good one. So i'll investigate that option. I went to their site and the sounds are pretty good. I'll just need to read the manual and see if its something I can tackle. Thanks Again!

Chris.

Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.

Sit back and enjoy your track...

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, October 17, 2014 12:50 PM

If doing a diesel, it's often best to use a light-board replacement decoder rather than the usual 'hardwire' one. That way, the sound decoder takes up no more room than the green lightboard it's replacing, so you just have to find room for a speaker.

Some diesel and steam engines come with not only an eight or nine-pin receptacle to plug in a decoder, but have a place provided as a speaker enclosure. Newer Spectrum steam engines usually have a spot in the tender for a 1" speaker, and the Walthers Proto E-units and Kato's F-40PH, AC4400, and SD-38 all have a built in spot for a 1" speaker in the fuel tank under the engine.

On a narrow-bodied diesel (like an RS-3, GP-7 etc.) often a 1/2" x 1" oval speaker and enclosure are the largest you can fit inside the body.

Stix
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Posted by cowman on Friday, October 17, 2014 11:36 AM

Welcome to the forums.

Go to the SoundTraxx site and look for "application note."  I have one for an Atlas RS-3, that shows what and where to cut and place parts.  I would assume that there are other locos listed there also.  Look over the work necessary for the locos you prefer and see which is easiest.

I think I read that an older Atlas RS-1 had more room, so less cutting and fitting.  I am not sure on that. 

Good luck,

Richard

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, October 17, 2014 11:07 AM

Hi, Chris

I have made maybe a dozen installs of sound decoders in Diesels. Your first statement about "plenty of room inside the shell" holds quite true. My first sound installation was inside a Proto2000 Alco PA-1. I used a Railmaster speaker enclosure and a Loksound select decoder.

Your BL-2 would probably be pretty tough to fit a speaker in there unless you find one of the recent I-phone ice cube speakers. I haven't tried these yet but I guess you get a lot of "bang for the buck" as far as good sound out of a small package. Otherwise you would have to look at speakers suited to N scale, like a 16mm x 25mm size. I remember installing a DCC silent decoder in my BL-2 and it was pretty much all die-cast weight inside there. You would probably have to do some milling to fit everything in there.

The BEST choice is to find a locomotive that is designed to be sound but only has a silent decoder, OR is DC only like the discontinued BLI **Blue Line. Some of the Athearn Genesis engines are also DC only but designed for sound so there may be a speaker enclosure already in there and in some you can just replace the DC PC board with a near duplicate DCC Sound board. Broadway Limited did have a "Stealth" series without sound but the guts were setup for a speaker. Kato makes the FP-45 with provisions for a speaker, too.

I'm sure others will have suggestions, too but this is just MY experience. Most of my recent sound installs have been in steam so there's usually enough room inside a tender for a decent speaker and decoder.

[**edit: Blueline was SOUND but didn't have the DCC motor decoder, still there are deals out there. I bought a Blueline Mikado that the sound decoder was bad (turned out to be a bad speaker) anyway, I got it for $100 and I installed a TCS WOWsound decoder in it and it is one of my best sounding AND running locos ever!]

Hope this helps, ED

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BEST loco to try to convert from DC to DCC and sound
Posted by LOCO_GUY on Thursday, October 16, 2014 2:57 PM

I'm thinking of buying a loco from ebay to try my hand at conversion from DC to DCC. I'd like to install a Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder in a loco with "plenty of room inside the shell". I found a BL2 which seems to have loads of room to fit the decoder - so it might be a good stating point. However, I am open to suggestions for other locos that might be as good or better when installing a dcc & sound decoder.

Bear in mind I am an older gentleman with not so good eyesight and terrible soldering skills. So its got to be something I can tackle. The more room the easier to install the decoder.

Chris.

Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.

Sit back and enjoy your track...

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