I'm thinking of buying a loco from ebay to try my hand at conversion from DC to DCC. I'd like to install a Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder in a loco with "plenty of room inside the shell". I found a BL2 which seems to have loads of room to fit the decoder - so it might be a good stating point. However, I am open to suggestions for other locos that might be as good or better when installing a dcc & sound decoder.
Bear in mind I am an older gentleman with not so good eyesight and terrible soldering skills. So its got to be something I can tackle. The more room the easier to install the decoder.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...
Hi, Chris
I have made maybe a dozen installs of sound decoders in Diesels. Your first statement about "plenty of room inside the shell" holds quite true. My first sound installation was inside a Proto2000 Alco PA-1. I used a Railmaster speaker enclosure and a Loksound select decoder.
Your BL-2 would probably be pretty tough to fit a speaker in there unless you find one of the recent I-phone ice cube speakers. I haven't tried these yet but I guess you get a lot of "bang for the buck" as far as good sound out of a small package. Otherwise you would have to look at speakers suited to N scale, like a 16mm x 25mm size. I remember installing a DCC silent decoder in my BL-2 and it was pretty much all die-cast weight inside there. You would probably have to do some milling to fit everything in there.
The BEST choice is to find a locomotive that is designed to be sound but only has a silent decoder, OR is DC only like the discontinued BLI **Blue Line. Some of the Athearn Genesis engines are also DC only but designed for sound so there may be a speaker enclosure already in there and in some you can just replace the DC PC board with a near duplicate DCC Sound board. Broadway Limited did have a "Stealth" series without sound but the guts were setup for a speaker. Kato makes the FP-45 with provisions for a speaker, too.
I'm sure others will have suggestions, too but this is just MY experience. Most of my recent sound installs have been in steam so there's usually enough room inside a tender for a decent speaker and decoder.
[**edit: Blueline was SOUND but didn't have the DCC motor decoder, still there are deals out there. I bought a Blueline Mikado that the sound decoder was bad (turned out to be a bad speaker) anyway, I got it for $100 and I installed a TCS WOWsound decoder in it and it is one of my best sounding AND running locos ever!]
Hope this helps, ED
Welcome to the forums.
Go to the SoundTraxx site and look for "application note." I have one for an Atlas RS-3, that shows what and where to cut and place parts. I would assume that there are other locos listed there also. Look over the work necessary for the locos you prefer and see which is easiest.
I think I read that an older Atlas RS-1 had more room, so less cutting and fitting. I am not sure on that.
Good luck,
Richard
If doing a diesel, it's often best to use a light-board replacement decoder rather than the usual 'hardwire' one. That way, the sound decoder takes up no more room than the green lightboard it's replacing, so you just have to find room for a speaker.
Some diesel and steam engines come with not only an eight or nine-pin receptacle to plug in a decoder, but have a place provided as a speaker enclosure. Newer Spectrum steam engines usually have a spot in the tender for a 1" speaker, and the Walthers Proto E-units and Kato's F-40PH, AC4400, and SD-38 all have a built in spot for a 1" speaker in the fuel tank under the engine.
On a narrow-bodied diesel (like an RS-3, GP-7 etc.) often a 1/2" x 1" oval speaker and enclosure are the largest you can fit inside the body.
So I did a little looking around for DCC sound cards. They need a 1.5 volt bulb to work from the decoder so I assume that's a real bulb (incandescent) not an LED as that has a polarity issue - or would either work?
Looking through all the stuff you have to do with conversion - I'm getting a little worried that after the expense of getting a decent loco, DCC & sound decoder - plus speaker this is going to be a labor of love - when I could just buy something off the shelf.
Does anyone have opinions on what the best option is. I'm not bad at doing a bit of electrical work (but 30+ years in the computer industry has left me with not so good eyesight) plus I could solder a tiny joint years ago but now I can hardly see what I'm doing without "helping hands" and I could overheat the decoder spending too much time trying to get a joint to hold.
Anyhoo, any help or support would be much appreciated.
You might want to start by converting one to DCC with no sound, just to see what your capabilities are. If you mess it up, the decoder is much less expensive than one with sound. Much easier to install a decoder than a decoder and speaker. If you feel comfortable doing that, take the next step. Evidently some locos take quite a bit of work to put the speaker in. Having it done professionally is expensive, don't ask how I know. Buying one all set up is often the best price, but is it what you want, with a good sounding decoder having the sounds you want? That is the question you have to ask yourself.
An Athearn GP38-2 or GP40-2. They have a metal frame and fuel tank, so no weight is needed in the shell. They utilize the metal strips still, so you can just pull it out and solder wires to the truck pick ups and the frame. I would also take out the light, and install LEDs.
As far as sound installation here is my suggestion, get a good quality loco That runs flawless. You will enjoy your sound loco far more if it runs smooth rather than converting an blue box Athearn For example.
The suggestion of buying a newer loco designed for sound is a good idea, I recently bought an HO Atlas S2 switcher and I installed a Loksound micro and speaker and it was very straight forward.
I have put a Tsunami In an older P2k sw1200 and it was tough as there was not enough room.
Check out the TCS website as it has great installation tips etc.
as far as soldering, practice on some old circuit boards first, a hot clean pencil type soldering iron and just a touch to a soldering pad on the board or speaker is all you need, very easy.
Sound is well worth the effort. Good luck.
One thing that you should consider is that it is cheaper to buy a sound-equipped locomotive than it is to buy a DC engine, a quality decoder and speaker with enclosure.
I would second the idea of installing a non-sound decoder first. Even though I've done a number of sound installations myself, I still typically do that. When I get a new engine, or something like the $15 Athearn switcher deal from a train show, I have a couple of older basic decoders that I can wire in just to get the engine runninng. Then, later on, I will upgrade to sound and put that basic decoder back in my parts box for the next one.
As a fellow old guy, I've got a couple of suggestions. First, get a magnifying lamp or an Optivisor. I found a magnifying lamp at an electronics place for $15, and it makes a lot of small detail work a lot easier. Second, get a couple of basic structure kits from City Classics or DPM, now part of Woodland Scenics, or some unpainted figures. Go to a craft store and get cheap acrylic paint and some brushes. I found that painting small details on structures, like window frames and doors, helped me recover some of those fine muscle skills and made my hand more steady for other detail work.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
There is no best, only what works best for you.
I see many like LokSound, many Tsunami, TCS is coming out with WOW sound decodrs. No idea about other brands.
Something very important. Some DC only locos have the motor brushes connected to the frame. The pickup power is routed through the frame to the motor and lights.
Some motors, the motor frame halves are internally connected to the brushes. Kapton tape and nylon screws are needed.
Knowledge of using a multimeter is a great advantage. Look for continuity where none should exist between the motor brushes and frame.
First DCC power up should be on the programming track. The DCC controller in program mode will be current limiting and usually identify a mis-wire.
Figure around $20 for non sound and about $100 or more for sound decoder. LokSound cost a little more.
The Stay Alive cap with the Tsunami is only for sound. For complete stay alive, a stay alive module. SoundTraxx has their own version. Other decoder manufactures have their own version which are all super caps with a resistor and diode.
Excellent DCC info below. He has a lot of Good links. Take your time. A few sentiences or paragraphs are good but a picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.mrdccu.com/
You might consider a Photo Bucket account for posting pictures of your project here.
http://photobucket.com/
Stay Alive info. He also has an excellant DCC site.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
It sounds like that the first thing you need to get is a pair of Optivisors so you can see what you're doing!
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 It sounds like that the first thing you need to get is a pair of Optivisors so you can see what you're doing!
Get an Optivisor with a super bright LED on each side of the device.
Decoders with 1.5 volt output are for light bulbs. Will not work for LED's.I found a thread somewhere else and their were complaints about dim bubls using the 1.5 volt option. I think the Tsunami but not sure.
Use the 12 volt output with a 1k resistor.
If it is an older loco with light bulbs, the light bulb will always have 12 volts on it with DCC and might start melting the plastic shell. Has happened. Older locos with 12 volt bulbs, the power pack was never turned up to 12 volts.
Many put in LED's
The decoder specs are at each decoder manufacturers website
Thanks to all for the informative replies.
1. I think the optivisor is a good idea - never even heard of them.
2. I have my own server so I can post pictures of projects there - it's just getting round to doing it.
3. Thanks for the advice on locos using the frame for grounding.
All-in-all, I'm getting excited and a bit worried about doing a conversion.
I'll have to take in all the advice in this thread and then make a decision. The optivisor sounds good as a first step so I can actually see what I am doing :-)
I've done about 30 sound installs. But I now buy locos with sound installed. As another poster said, you don't save any money after buying the loco, the sound decoder, and a speaker. The sound installs I did were on locos I already had. Some were easy. Some involved removing the weight and doing some grinding. Some involved removing the weight completely.
Yeah, I'm thinking you are right - just pay for the full blown sound in a brand new loco. You really can't go wrong.
I'm sure my wife will be pleased with my decision. Better get her some flowers and chocolates before breaking the news.
LOCO_GUYCan anyone tell me if you can wear your own glasses while wearing the optivision device?
Yes, you can wear eyeglasses together with the Optivisor, because the optivisor's lens is quite a distance from your eyes.
Thanks for all the replies. The post had an unexpected result of letting me know about these visors - which is great!
I just ordered a pair from Amazon with an LED light and four interchangeable lenses.
I'll probably look like a "sad geek" wearing them - but at least I'll be able to see what I'm doing - hoorayyyy!
I have a knockoff set, works pretty well. Combined witht he LARGE lighted magnifier I picked up - hmm, wish I could remember where I bought it from - unlike the typical ones you find with the 3-4" lens, this thing has like a 12" lens. I've had glasses for over 40 years. Now bifocals, since my near vision is going too. Ideal uncorrected distance for me is almost exactly 2" from the tip of my nose. Closer it gets blurry, further it gets blurry. I HAVE glued and soldered and painted things just inches from my nose so I could see what I was doing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Bachmann has a sound value line that uses SoundTraxx decoders. They are not called Tsunami decoders because they are a little stripped down, a few CV's and a few less sounds. The Bachmann ad's generally tell you exactly what you are going to get. Bachmann and SoundTraxx both list the Bachmann loco CV list.
This is not the Bachmann in the previous century. Bachmann has come a long way.
I belong to the Bachmann forums and some other forums and this new line is getting positive results, plus Bachmann has a good return policy if an issue. Don't throw away the receipt.
Online prices much better that the Bachmann prices.
Bachmann site has a lot of good info and forums for different scales.
IMHO, the best locomotive(s) for conversion to DCC and sound would be any of the PRR or ATSF steamers fitted with 16-wheel tenders. The tender of a DC version is just a big, empty box with the internal cubic of a 60 foot box car - plenty of room for dual speakers (with proper baffles) and almost any decoder.
OTOH, for anyone who really wants a challenge, you could try my 1873 Hohenzollern 0-4-0T. The 1:80 scale model is a block of lead with a wheel at each corner, with a central cavity barely big enough to accept the 5-pole vertical open-frame drive motor. Speaker enclosure? You're kidding, right?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I know someone who could probably do it, unfortunately he is no longer with us. After seeing the sound and DCC installs Wolfgang did in those tiny Grandt Line 25 tonners, I'm sure he could have figured out this one.
rrinker I know someone who could probably do it, unfortunately he is no longer with us. After seeing the sound and DCC installs Wolfgang did in those tiny Grandt Line 25 tonners, I'm sure he could have figured out this one. --Randy
Yeah, Wolfgang was great. Last time I looked his site was still up.
If the OP goes with short wheel base locos, he will need powered frogs. Some put a layout together that does not have powered frogs and have operating issues using DCC. Stay Alive can help a lot.
A fellow on a SoundTraxx Yahoo Groups is running a Varney Docksider with DSD090LC decoder and 5 supercaps disguised as air tanks.
Well, i think that was mostly Chuck demonstrating the extremes. For the OP, definitely an recent model Athearn, or P2k or Atlas loco, NON sound. Got to start somewhere. Next I would try something like an old style Blue Box loc where there is some soldering involved, but nothing crazy. THEN maybe try a sound install, very few sound installs that don't involve some shoehorning at the least and usually a little weight milling. I did do an Athearn RTR something or other for a customer that I managed to fit it all in, speaker and enclosure, without having to chop up anything, and that's even with being supplied the 'wrong' decoder - the board replacement form factor would have left more room. A late model Atlas Silver Series should be easy to add sound to - the Silver Series non-sound still had the speaker enclosures cast as part of the chassis so all you have to do is remove the extra weights they stuffed in there and insert the same size speakers as used in the sound versions. Probably the easiest sound conversions around, since they have the speaker chambers already. The lastes Athearn release will have the speaker enclosure even on the DC ones, so those should also prove to be fairly easy to convert.
Once again, thank you for the many replies.
I am replying to all posts here to say that I am still undecided on convert or not-convert.
However, the many replies have me overwhelemed - and I appreciate it.
1. On the optivisor recommendations I got my new visor today and it "ROCKS" better than my ordinary glasses. It was the Carson Optical Pro Series and I know it s gonna work fine for me. Even has lens cleaner. less than $30 on amazon.
2. I don't have any fancy gear to grind, mill, or adjust frames/chassis or whatever so I'm going to go with a store bought loco when I can afford it.
I just don't understand why a manufacturer like Bachmann does not offer this option - value series or full blown. I would pay the extra.
Thanks for all the feedback - it's nice on a personal level to be part of a community - and this is a good one.
LOCO_GUY 2. I don't have any fancy gear to grind, mill, or adjust frames/chassis or whatever so I'm going to go with a store bought loco when I can afford it. I just don't understand why a manufacturer like Bachmann does not offer this option - value series or full blown. I would pay the extra.
You can use a belt sander with the proper grit.
Also use a Dremel with diamond cutoff wheel. I have done both for certain frames. Just use your imagination to figure out how.
Obvious Man says, go join the Bachmann forums and ask. There are reps there. I know what the answer will be as I have seen this question a few times in different forums.
I am over 70 and have the same issues as you do.
Rich,
I tried to join the "ask the bachmann" forum and never got a relpy or login.
Bachmann don't seem to care about users of their product.
I do have a nice "dremel like tool" that I can use but imagintion does not always relate to a nice job. These things vibrate like crazy and I want precision. Or at least a decent job.
If anyone knows better then let me know.
Being on the inside and not visible once the shell if back on, ultra jet-engine precision is not required here. The trick to making it look at least halfway decent and not like someone randomly jabbed a sharp tool at the weight area is to clamp it down so you aren;t holding botht he motor tool AND the piece you are working on. Hold the tool and rest your hands on the workbench. Don't try to take off all the material in one big bite, make many small passes - if the motor tool slows or strains, you're pressing too hard or trying to take too big a bite. Mark the dimensions of the cut with a Sharpie marker before starting, so you can see where you need to get to.
But there are plenty of options mentioned that won;t require any of this, you should start there. For more information on making the more complicated sound installs, there is a Yahoo Group called RPMClinics-RickBell in which you'll mostly be intereded in the files section. The work on one loco at a time, detailing each and every step of an install, and then once it's done, they compile all the text and pictures into a document and place it in the files section. Very good step by steps on installing sound decoders and speakers, and upgrading lighting.