looking for a wiring diagram for the walthers 3-way switches or hand made ones. also trying to figure out terminology for suitcase connectors. if designated 18/22 AWG I assume this means the connector is good to connect 18G and 22G wire. . If correct then I can't find 14/22 AWG connectors since my bus is 14 G and Feeders are 22G. Help
You will not be able to find suitcase connectors to adapt 14 gauge to 22 gauge. Not only that, but suitcase connectors can be very unreliable if they are not properly crimpled or are not for the correct wire gauge.
Search for 3M Scotchlok T Tap connectors. It is a two part system. You purchase the appropriate size connector for your bus wire size. You then select the appropriate size tab for your wire drops. Of course, the tab is then plugged into the bus connector. This will allow you to use 14 gauge bus with 22 gauge drop. An added advantage to this system is you can also unplug the tab from the connector for troubleshooting purposes.
I have found these connectors very reliable. I've used them on my home layout since 2000 with no issue. I have over 1,500 installed on my layout. We also used them on our club layout since 1995 again with no failures. One word of caution. You want to use a wire with a soft insulation coating for the bus wire. I used 12 gauge auto hook-up wire for my layout (ordered in 500 ft rolls in the colors I needed). Most wire from home centers has a tough outer coating because it is designed to be pulled through electrical conduit. This type of wire is not a good match for suitcase connectors because the prongs are not designed to penetrate it.
Lastly, while the #M ScotchLok connectors are reliable, they are not cheap. You can, however, obtain them at a reasonable price from most of the large online electrical component suppliers.
Good luck, Tom
Tom makes a really good point about auto vs residential wiring. The 'softer' insulation is much easier to work with! I used 3M Scotchlok IDC's and have had no problems for over 10 years. Here are typical sizes:
905 - Bus wire 18-14
Tap wire 22-18
567 - Bus wire 12-10
Tap wire 18-14
The only issues I ran into was that some #22 wire is just too small to stay on the IDC. I used some #20 auto wire, it is thicker/softer and the IDC really clamps down on the wire. Using a 'tool' to clamp the IDC really helps. You can buy the 'expensive' one($60-70) or the cheap $20 one - They all work better than gas pliers or channel locks. I have over 300 of the #905's on my layout. Most of the reported problems are either incorrect installation or cheap IDC's. Remember, we are not doing aircraft wiring, or boat/trailer wiring here.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Use Posi-taps, no tool needed and one connector can hold up to 5 wires so no termial costs. Will not cut wires and cheap if bought in bulk 14 gauge to 24 gauge, no problem. Aircraft approved (not that that maters but it shows their reliabilty, even with the occational tug).
So what is the cost of these Posi-Tap connectors?
All I keep hearing is CHEAP - YET - no prices!
And prices per - Each - 100 - 1000 qty
BOB H - Clarion, PA
They are anything BUT cheap. Over $1 each. Can find them on Amazon, NAPA also sells them,
They have the exact same problem that the 3M suitcase conenctors have - there is no option for #12 bus to less than #18 tap.
I'll stick to inline stripping with my Ideal Stripmaster and a quick shot with my soldering gun.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thre's info in the attached site about Walthers 3-way turnout wiring. If installing one, there's a thread on the forum (I think) that highlights a particular problem spot that tends to short (wheel flange bridging) more than typical. Not a huge problem if you know where it is...adding some nail polish can solve it. EDIT: see the 2nd link comments by Middleman about the shorting issue and another way to solve it (I found the nail polish solved it for me thus far).
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=modelrailroading;id=13;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ewiringfordcc%2Ecom%2Fswitches_walthers%2Ehtm
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/214350.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=2
On suitcase connectors, some folks are against them, on a conservative basis, so I'd view it as a risk issue. I decided to use them, connecting my 16AWG stranded buss to 22AWG solid wire feeders. I did find some low-priced "scotchlok" items on EBay but they were knockoffs using the name, different internal design, so I sent them back (price was too good to be true). I found what I needed (3M Scotchloks) either at All Electronics or Mouser, I think about $0.35 each. I've had no problems with mine, 3 years into it. Do get the right type parallel jaw pliers to close them. The official types are about $75 I recall, but I found a similar size and style RoboGrip at Sears for less than $25. Suggest the larger ones and be sure to get the straight jawed ones.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
rrinker They are anything BUT cheap. Over $1 each. Can find them on Amazon, NAPA also sells them, They have the exact same problem that the 3M suitcase conenctors have - there is no option for #12 bus to less than #18 tap. I'll stick to inline stripping with my Ideal Stripmaster and a quick shot with my soldering gun. --Randy
Randy
Just as I thought - they ain't cheap - that is compaired to a roll of 60/40 solder!
I have over 1200 track drops and each of my turnouts has all 3 ends with track drops (4000 feet of track and over 500 turnouts).
That is 5400 drop wires (remember there are 2 drop wires for each track section - for those that are counting) - that seems to be quite a number of Brass engines I could be purchasing if I did that (Less than smart) move.
I guess a $30.00 pound of solder wasn't that expensive after all.
I am not a fan of IDCs. There are none on my layout. If you decide to use them, invest in the crimp tool. It works better than plyers.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I used Vise-Grip plyers on my Scotch-Loks with very good results.
Dante
I agree. I have priced suitcase connectors and there are pricey. I do the inline stripping and soldering method and it works fine for me.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Thanks a lot for your reply. the link was just what i needed. as far as the connectors, it looks like a price issue and personal preferance. would probably lean towards the connectors as i don't personally relish soldering under the layout if I can help it. not getting any younger. Thanks again. Ron.
thanks for the info. Ron
Thanks for your help. Ron
dante I used Vise-Grip plyers on my Scotch-Loks with very good results. Dante
We did the same thing at our Club wiring up our Lionel Display back in '91 - we used #12 stranded w/#12 stranded drops - went to an Electrical sypply and purchased the proper Scotch locks (none of the junk knock-offs).
We installed the Scotch Locks and the layout ran great for 5 years - then we would experience slow dows in certain blocks (we are located in a basement in the middle of town) and in trouble shooting the problems the slow dows would go away - without doing anything other then moving the wires around a bit in checking voltages!
It would run well but then another block would begin acting up - then another and so on!
We finally learned to just get under the layout and wiggle the wires and the movement would break the corrosion lose and make contact again!
Kind of embarrising to have the public in for a show and have the layout go down for something as dumb as a bad connection!
When we rebuilt the layout - we soldered every connections - GUESS What - NEVER had a problem since!
Imagine that!
While you may never experience the type of failure we had - if you have lots of drops and your track is soldered - you could have 10% to 20% of the IDCs FAIL and NOT Know IT!
It took our layout almost 7 years to begin having problems to the point we were noticing the problem - BUT How long was it having the problem and we could NOT see the problem?
And anyway - from the number of Posts on the forum - most layouts NEVER last more than a few years anyway!
I used #905 Scotchlok IDC's and crimped with 12 inch chanel lock pliers using 14 and 18 gauge wire. Never a problem and quick to install. Very reliable and would do it again if needed on expansion, or something new. I do live in a low humidity weather area. Doug
Bob H, I bought scotchlok 905 connecters 14 to 18 gauge on amazon for 15.00 as a box of 50, and also another bag of scotchlok 560B connectors that were a bag of 100 for about the same price. Hope this helps. I didnt find that they were all that expensive, and I am on a fixed income.
Expensive? What stores are you looking at?
Amazon sells 100pcs for $12 http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchlok-Self-Stripping-QuickSlide-Disconnect/dp/B003KOIBLI
Suitcases are for baggage on an airplane.
On RAILROAD, nothing beats solder. Cheaper. With thousands of connections anything but solder is out of the question. LION uses nails as binding posts, they keep the cables neat and organized. LION uses copper colored (anodized) nails, a box of about 300 costs less than $3.00.
For main power bus LION uses BARE wire, him solder to it where him likes.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Can't beat a good solder joint for both cost and reliability.
Martin Myers
Hi Tom, Where does one find wire with a soft insulation coating? How does one determine the diffference in wire coatings? Could you please provide some sources.
Thank you
BroadwayLion Suitcases are for baggage on an airplane. On RAILROAD, nothing beats solder. Cheaper. With thousands of connections anything but solder is out of the question. LION uses nails as binding posts, they keep the cables neat and organized. LION uses copper colored (anodized) nails, a box of about 300 costs less than $3.00. For main power bus LION uses BARE wire, him solder to it where him likes. ROAR
I agree with LION! - suitcases ARE for baggage on Trains or Planes!
Yah say yah want cheep connectors?
Do what I do. Use wire nuts.
They're available at any hardware or home center to work with all but the tiniest wire gauges, generally are reusable, are easy to modify circuits with, provide a reliabel connection, etc, etc.
Strip wire to the correct length, insert, and twist. Quick and easy. Visual inspection generally tells you the connection is good.
What's not to love about the humble wire nut? I've always been suprised NOT to read about others using them, but maybe it's a little like having a car up on concrete blocks in a weedy front yard or something...only you can hide it all under the layout where no one can see it?
For tie-ins to my bus (12 gauge THNN), I cut the insulation back and solder 16 gauge brown lamp cord to feed the circuits underneath (it was wired as a 2-cab DC layout originally). Then I slather them with liquid electric tape.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hello Tom.
Can you tell me what the 3M T Tap product number is? There seems to be alot of the same type but with different product numbers. I also run a 14 gauge bus with 22 gauge feeders and want to buy the perfect connector.
Thank you.
Mike D.
Warminster, PA
This is not a direct answer to your question but i recently came across thes connectors that i think could be useful. Just one more way to skin a cat.
The post after Tom's in this necro thread told you what the number was 905. It's still the same number.
Yes there are a lot of knock off products that look like the 3M product, also known as a scotch connectors. We know the 3M products work because a lot of people use them. Are the ones from Cheapistan just as good? Your guess is as good as mine.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyThe post after Tom's in this necro thread told you what the number was 905. It's still the same number.
No, it is not. The 905 is a suitcase connector, http://www.newark.com/3m/905-box/terminal-wire-tap-splice-crimp/dp/46F4358?mckv=5LM9n3Tw_dc|pcrid|77034545953554|plid|{placement}|kword|+3m%20+905-box|match|b&CMP=KNC-BUSA-SKU-MDC&DM_PersistentCookieCreated=true
The item "Tom" mentioned was a T-tap connector, for example http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/137031O/3m-scotchlok-sse-tap-connectors-951-952-953.pdf, a different style.
Thanks for correcting me. The t-tap is readily disconnectable, the suitcase is not.
As Tom said, and I ignored, it is a 2 piece system. One half looks much like a suitcase connector but there is no pic of the other half on the 3M site