I am looking for some economical toggles to throw turnouts on a control panel.
It has been suggested I use momentary SPDT toggles (sprung to return to off) in place of push buttons for the Atlas and Peco switch machines and regular DPDT for the stall machine switches.
Where could I find some econmical versions of these?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
All Electronics, Digikey, and Mouser are all good sources for inexpensive momemtary toggle switches. If you are using twin selenoid turnout machines - buy the heavier current capacity versions. Twin coil switch machines can draw a lot of current, amd you do not want to 'tack' the toggle contacts!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The Atlas switches are good for the electro-magnet switch machines, as you can "see" from the switch what position the switch is in. I don't know how expensive they are, as I haven't bought any in years. As a matter of fact, I think all mine came with the turnouts.
Mike C.
I had to replace all the pushbuttons on a control panel at my club due to the buttons sticking and burning out the switch machines (Peco). I replaced the buttons with 10-32 brass machine screws with nuts connecting the switch control wires to them under the panel. I then used an old voltmeter lead as a wand. Touching the wand to the correct screw head throws the desired switch. I also aligned the slots in the screw heads to show the direction the train would go. Adding a Snapper means the machines won't burn out. You can detect a slight welding action when you touch the probe to the screw so that is probably what happened to the pushbuttons.
All Electronics is a source for the correct switches.
Momentary is used for twin coil, but then you control panel will not intuitively tell you which way the turnout is aligned.
They used to have some nice lever (leaf) switches that did both, a momentary contact in passing, and a continous contacts for lights and signals as well as keeping its position once thrown.
Some of these switches may do what you want. The pricy ones half way down look to be good candidates.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
wobblinwheel The Atlas switches are good for the electro-magnet switch machines, as you can "see" from the switch what position the switch is in. I don't know how expensive they are, as I haven't bought any in years. As a matter of fact, I think all mine came with the turnouts.
I should have stated I want to mount the switches on a masonite control panel with a schematic where the toggles are on schematic. The Atlas, which I have used, mount in a rows - which does not lend themselves to schematic panel mounting.
It does not hurt to use a toggle to select the route, and a button to throw the switch.
In operationg you move the lever and then press the button to activate the switch. Some interlocking machines were used this way.
Most modelers do like to mount thier controls on the diagram, but as you know, the LION is anamoured of mounting the levers in a line after the maner of the interlocking plant. True, you need to know whcih lever controls which signal or turnout, but a glance will tell you what is normal and what is reversed, where as on a diagram panel up and down is specific to each location, and "wipe down" does not return all devices to the normal position.
It's been many years since I used Atlas pushbuttons. My memory of them, though, is that they were prone to sticking in the ON position and burning out switch machines. Most of this memory is from the 1960s, when the buttons were much larger than the ones they make now. I still have some of those.
Again, toggle sticking is enough reason in itself to use a Capacitive Discharge Unit.
I buy my toggles online, most recently from All Electronics.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The Atlas buttons do have a tendency to stick after much use. A CD supply is the way to go there, at least if a button would stick, it won;t fry the coils.
I think what Lion was getting at, is if you have some Tortoise motors and use a DPDT toggle mounted in your track diagram, the handle will indicate the route, since you don't use momentary switches for those. And if it doesn't, loosen the nut and rotate the switch 180 degrees, or swap the 1 and 8 wires on the Tortoise. Putting momentary SPDT toggles in the same panel for the twin coil switch motors, you would flick it in the direction you want to go, but the handle snaps back to center and provides no indication of which way it was lined. If you have indicator lights on the panel, it probably doesn;t matter. But you can ALSO use SPDT regular toggles, and add a momentary pushbutton in series with the middle leg of the toggle. That makes operating the turnout a 2-step process, flip the toggle then press the button, but you will be left with a toggle that indicates the lined route just like the toggles for the Tortoise powered turnouts.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I get mine from Marlin P Jones. Sometimes they are out of stock so you have to wait a bit, but the price is right. I also use the mini-toggles as they just take a 1/4nch hole to mount them.
http://www.mpja.com/Mini-Toggle-Switches/products/289/
Also get a nut driver for the mounting nuts. You can tighten them up easier. Don't use too much heat when soldering the wires on any mini-toggle because the contacts inside will move and may get out of alignment.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
RioG,
I recently completed a control panel for around twenty tortoise switch machines and used cheap SPDT on/on mini toggles from a well know internet supplier, less than a buck each. Already had one fail. Though not too much of a pain to replace, still not fun in my book. Hopefully I just got one lemon. There were other toggles in the $4 to 9$ price range and can only assume they are of better quality.
regards, Peter
rrinker The Atlas buttons do have a tendency to stick after much use. A CD supply is the way to go there, at least if a button would stick, it won;t fry the coils. Putting momentary SPDT toggles in the same panel for the twin coil switch motors, you would flick it in the direction you want to go, but the handle snaps back to center and provides no indication of which way it was lined. If you have indicator lights on the panel, it probably doesn;t matter. But you can ALSO use SPDT regular toggles, and add a momentary pushbutton in series with the middle leg of the toggle. That makes operating the turnout a 2-step process, flip the toggle then press the button, but you will be left with a toggle that indicates the lined route just like the toggles for the Tortoise powered turnouts. --Randy
Putting momentary SPDT toggles in the same panel for the twin coil switch motors, you would flick it in the direction you want to go, but the handle snaps back to center and provides no indication of which way it was lined. If you have indicator lights on the panel, it probably doesn;t matter. But you can ALSO use SPDT regular toggles, and add a momentary pushbutton in series with the middle leg of the toggle. That makes operating the turnout a 2-step process, flip the toggle then press the button, but you will be left with a toggle that indicates the lined route just like the toggles for the Tortoise powered turnouts.
So are their any momentary toggle which you can flip in the direction of the turnout, is momentary but stays flipped in a direction. That would be ideal because the position of the switch would show the turnout position much like the SPDT switch used on the stall type switch machines. FYI, the stall machines are Switchmaster and the coil are Atlas and Peco. Lights would be nice but add additional cost (and possibly more wiring?)
Since the CDU has been mentioned, what are the more economical options?
There are, but they are not very common, and likely to be expensive. The option I was talking about combines a regular SPDT toggle (not momentary) and a seperate pushbutton (normally open momentary). This requires you to flip the toggle and then give the button a push to operate the switch motor.
As far as CDU's go, they are really easy to build, only a couple of components. That would be the most economical way. The Circuitron Snapper isn't very expensive if you don't want to try your hand at simple electronic circuits.
riogrande5761So are their any momentary toggle which you can flip in the direction of the turnout, is momentary but stays flipped in a direction. That would be ideal because the position of the switch would show the turnout position much like the SPDT switch used on the stall type switch machines.
Yes. I made a link to leaf switches above. But those are pricy. You could make one yourself out of simple parts:
A guy named Ken Stapleton makes a small circuit with a toggle switch on one end. It controls a twin-coil machine and also provides outputs for panel leds.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM
I have a couple of these and they work OK. He sells them either assembled or unassembled. If you want panel leds for your twin-coils, this is an economical solution.
Nice reference but it looks like it would triple the cost of a panel. Ideally an inexpensive yard ladder panel could have toggles who's position would reflect the turnout position - if such a beast exists, I'd like to find something like that. ie a toggle which is always up or down but has a momentary contact on each side.
I've never heard of the kind of toggle you're suggesting, unfortunately. It would be nice, though....
Another option is a latching relay. I've added a few of these to control power to sidings based on turnout position, or to drive signals. This one is very economical:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/rly-565/5vdc-dpdt-latching-relay-surface-mount/1.html
It's a single-coil model, so I would assume that you throw the relay based on the polarity of power applied. That's not what you do for twin-coils, so you would need to use a DPDT toggle instead of SPDT, and use the other side to drive the relay. My latching relays are also twin-coils, so I just wire them in parallel with the switch machines. They did cost more than this, though.
Half a century or so ago I got some truly fantastic toggle-type switches at Tenshodo, in Tokyo. They had one pole momentary contact, and a second pole to switch frog polarity and/or run signals. They were massive, but nice and not too expensive.
I haven't seen the like since, on either side of the Pacific.
My own panel point controls are neither toggles nor buttons. I use the hot probe and stud system described above, or 3P4T rotary switches. If I were going to change, I'd go to a standard DPDT toggle (extra pole for signals or hot frog) and a decent-quality pushbutton to energize the pole connected to the switch machine coils. The same, without button, for Tortoi. The button goes at the 'point' on the schematic, and the toggle will show which way it was last positioned.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with Rix and KTM twin-coil switch machines)
Back in the day, Walthers sold a toggle switch that had multiple contacts, the E201 Toggle Key. It has a set of DPDT contacts, an extra set of SPDT contacts, and a set of SPDT momentary contacts for the switch machine. They started offering these in the late 30's or early 40's, I believe it was a Centralab product. Granted, these required a slot for mounting, not just a round hole, but they did everything with one switch.