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What decoder is best for older Stewart F Units?

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What decoder is best for older Stewart F Units?
Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:25 PM

Hi!

I have detailed an older Stewart ABBA F7 consist and bought (couple of years ago) 4 NCE DASR decoders (board type) to install in them.   Well, I finally got around to wanting to install the DCC decoders.

Upon pulling the shells, I find that the DASR decoder boards are not appropriate for the workings that my locos have.  What I really need is the "package type" decoder with the wires attached.

My decoder guide books are out of date, and I need your help in finding the right one that is now available.

Also, as long as I'm here, what type LEDs and resistors are needed?

Thanks all!

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by HO-Velo on Sunday, March 30, 2014 4:06 PM

If you don't want sound this decoder works good.  My Stewart is an early 1990s and the innards are the same as the Loco depicted in the following link.  I kept the orig. bulb as per the instructions, but it finally burned out.  Guess I'll look into replacing the bulb with an LED sometime in the future.

regards, Peter  

http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Stewart/Stewart%20F3A%20Phase%20I/Stewart_F3A_I.html

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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:01 PM

The TCS "T1" will obviously work.   But looking up a "T1" yields various kinds and model numbers.  I want one with the wiring attached, and am not certain which model to order.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:48 PM

 Regular T1 is the basic decoder with wires. The wires are actually on a 9 pin plug so the decoder can still be removed. All the other suffixes are different forms of harnesses with 8 pin plugs on the end, exvept the T1A, which is the basic T1 with no harness (for locos like newer Athearns that have a 9 pin plug - since you don;t need the plug and wires with those, the T1A is a buck or so cheaper).

          --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by HO-Velo on Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:41 PM

For my Stewart I used TCS T1 1021 decoder, came with plug in wire harness

 

regards, Peter

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Posted by skagitrailbird on Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:29 PM

The TCS link given earlier was for a Stewart FT.  Below is a lonk to the TCS installation photos for the early Stewart F7.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Stewart/F7A%20Early%20Phase%20I/Stewart_F7A_Early_Phase_I.html

Good luck!

Roger Johnson
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Posted by HO-Velo on Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:23 PM

I was too early on my purchase date, purchased my two Stewarts new, F9A unit instruction sheet dated 10/97.  B unit purchased soon after F unit.  The F9A stock#9310 and F3B stock#8041 have the same innards other than the B unit has no light pipe or bulb.  Innards of my two models are the same as the ones in the link I posted earlier.

The T1 install in the F9A was my first and went smooth following the instructions in the link, just wish I had installed an LED at the same time.  Have yet to install decoder into the F3B.  These models have always been great runners, might be my imagination, but it seems the F9A runs even better with DCC.

regards, Peter

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 31, 2014 5:40 AM

If in doubt, your best bet is to contact TCS and ask for their recommendation.

But the following information may be helpful to you.

Greenway Products installs the TCS MC2P-SH decoder and says that this decoder is "recommended by TCS" for the older Stewart F7.

http://greenwayproducts.com/storeroom/Electronics/decoders.html

Here is a link to the TCS MC2P-SH decoder on the TCS site:

http://tcsdcc.com/public_html/Zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_15

Hope this helps.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 31, 2014 5:47 AM

Hi,

My 4 units are the type posted by HO-Velo - with the grey plastic piece on top, instead of the green circuit board as indicated for the other version of the Stewarts.   It looks like the T1 1021 is what is used in the demo.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 31, 2014 6:27 AM

 Those are the Kato drive ones, the grey plastic 'circuit board' is the giveaway. I'd just do the hard wire method and remove the plastic board.  FT or F3 or F7, the Kato guts are all pretty much the same, though this seems a bit overly complicated: http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Stewart/stewart%20early.htm

Chopping the plastic in half to save the light tube - well, I guess that's one way to keep from lighting up the entire cab, but painting the sides and back of the LED will do the same.

       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 31, 2014 6:38 AM

Anyone have any thoughts on the differences and benefits of the T1 compared to the MC2P ?

Is one better than the other?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 10:24 AM

I can see why one would prefer a hardwire and not rely on the pick-up wire friction clips.  I kept the grey plastic board/ friction clip to copper rod set-up thinking that it might make for easier removal of the truck assemblies for maint.  Install was made over a year ago and no pick-up problems yet, but never did experience any pick-up problems with these units pre-DCC.

regards, Peter

 

  

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 31, 2014 12:06 PM

richhotrain

Anyone have any thoughts on the differences and benefits of the T1 compared to the MC2P ?

Is one better than the other?

Rich

 

Yes, the T1 is cheaper.

Otherwise, they are functionally identical, other than physical size. Nice thing about TCS, the functions and features are stabilized across their line of decoders. Difference are all in physical form factor and total number of functions a given decoder has.

I used an MC2P in my 44-tonner, and also in Proto S2 switchers, but when there's room for the bigger T1 I just use those because they are cheaper.

Might matter, they have MC series with keep alives now, and an MC with KA might fit where a T1 without KA fits.

              --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 31, 2014 12:46 PM

Thanks all for your input.   It looked to me like the TCS T1 was a good choice but I contacted TCS to verify.   "Dave" at TCS suggested the T1 basic or the T1 LED as it had the built in resistors for LED application.   Soooo, I ordered 4 of them, and look forward to getting on with the long delayed project.

Thanks again!

Mobilman44

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 31, 2014 1:15 PM

 I use the T1's so much that a pack of 4 of them is a staple item on my Christmas list each year. I have about 5 on hand right now. Note sure what's going to happen int eh near furute, since I am moving soon, and it will be at least another eyar until I get a decent track plan designed and might be ready to build. In the meantime I might end up getting more locos completed, or I might just be too busy with hosue things to do any railroad stuff. I'm probably not doing my usual summer show with the club. Might give me the chance to whittle down some of the project list - besides what's on my web site I probably have 4-5 more things I never bothered to add there.

          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southeast Texas
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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 31, 2014 2:08 PM

The existing bulbs are in metal tubes.   The bulbs are just a tad over 1mm.   What color/type LED will work?

Also - forgive my ignorance - what would happen if I just reused the bulbs?

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 31, 2014 2:29 PM

Good grief, my measurement is garbage.   I didn't zero the micometer and got a 1 mm reading.   Yikes, I should have known better.   The actual measurement is 3 mm.   

With that said, what will work?

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 2:54 PM

Mobileman,  

I reused the orig. bulb, but it failed a couple months ago.  Don't know that the failure had anything to do with DCC conversion or just bulb life.  The loco had a lot of DC service hours having owned it for nearly 20 years.  If you're wanting to use the metal tube, maybe a 3mm LED will fit the tube, if not maybe you can fab up a tube.  Two popular colors of LED for loco headlights are golden white and sunny white, I've yet to decide what color I'll be replacing my failed bulb with.  TCS suggests a 680ohm resistor with their 3mm LEDs and they also have a color sample on the LED portion of their website.  

 

regards, Peter 

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 3:00 PM

Mobileman,  Just miked up a thru hole flangeless 3mm LED that I have on hand.  .121 dia.

regards, Peter

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 3:10 PM

Also miked up a 3mm LED with flange, LED dia. .118, flange dia. .132

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 31, 2014 3:25 PM

You can experiment with various values of resistors before final installation.

A 680 ohm resistor may result in an LED much brighter than you want.

A 1K ohm resistor may be the better choice, but it is all a matter of personal preference.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 31, 2014 3:42 PM

As for color - you'll probably want a golden-white LED. I use the Miniatronics Yelo-Glo ones, because they just have a tiny spot color folter over the diode juntion - looks like a bulb inside a clear housing. Unless you are modeling an old F unit still in service or restored for fantrip service sort of thing, then you might want the Sunny WHite color which is more like modern locomotives - but then you'd also have to add ditch lights and would need a decoder with more functions. If youa re doing F units in their heyday, the yelo-glo is the one. I always use 1K resistors, and they aren;t twoo bright, at least on Proto locos. On some of my Stewrats, it seems they use a better quality (more clear) light pipe and I've had to go higher than 1K to tone it down a bit. The Fs I have seem ok with 1K, not overly bright.

        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 3:46 PM

Mobilman,  

Sorry for adding the extra E to your handle.  If you're inclined to use TCS LEDs they may be able to give you sizes.  Their tech folks are very helpful.  Haven't had my old zero to one out in awhile, but it gave me 30 years of reliable service when I worked the "oil patch".  "Oil patch" is what the oldtimers called the refinery, darn, now I'm one of them oldtimers, how'd that happen?

regards,  Peter

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 31, 2014 4:28 PM

What do you guys use for piping?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 31, 2014 4:54 PM

HO-Velo,

 Thanks for correcting my handle - removing the E.   I spent 40 years in the earl bizzess, with the last 33 with Mobil and subsequently ExxonMobil (yes, that is how its spelled).   And of course the 44 is my year of birth, making me a certified "war baby" and alas......... an old timer.

Oh, I ordered 20 of the bright white LEDs.   As the decoders have built in resistors, I guess they will work just fine.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, March 31, 2014 4:56 PM

On mine, I just used drop-in lightboard replacement decoders. I soldered extensions to the wires coming from the trucks so they'd reach. Easier than doing a full 'hardwire'...although I think I did that on one too.

Stix
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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 5:59 PM

Mobilman,

I started with Standard Oil, but when I finished it was Chevron.  

when detailing my Stewart F9A many years ago I installed an MV products lens, with the orig. bulb the lens always gave the emitted light a yellowish glow, so maybe a bright white LED will do for me as well when I get around to changing out the burned bulb.

regards,  Peter

 

 

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Posted by HO-Velo on Monday, March 31, 2014 6:05 PM

richhotrain
What do you guys use for piping?

Rich,  Since I retained the grey plastic board and orig. light bulb I used the orig. metal tube, don't know what material the tube was made of.  If I end up needing a different size tube when LED installation time comes around I'll try a piece of alum. tubing.

regards, Peter

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 31, 2014 7:04 PM

 Bright white? Those are the ones that look bluish. You probably won't like those. But you can use soma Tamiya orange paint for polycarbonate to tone it down and make it look more incadescent toned.

        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 31, 2014 8:12 PM

Ha!  Great minds think alike.   When the subject of brightness was brought up elsewhere, I mentioned toning the face of the LED with a dab of thinned paint.  

When I was a teenage motorhead, we would often pull the interior bulbs from our cars and tint the blue or green or red for "atmosphere"..................

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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