Just to throw another twist into pricing...
I know there's the desire to avoid wireless. Keep in mind that means the cost of installing the various pannels, plus cables to connect. They're not expensive, but they do add up. And you're stuck with the cords dangling about. In any case, it's worth adding all that up and comparing to the cost difference with radio. It may be that the extra cost of the wireless is like the difference between the price of the PowerCab and the PH-Pro -- not that much, but you get a lot more capability.
NCE radio system is now very stable and reliable. Don't be concerned about those factors. It just works.
My layout supports up to six operators and might be able to squeeze in a couple of more on a PH-Pro and another booster -- probably slightly overkill. Not sure how extensive the track, etc is in the layout in question, but a PowerCab would go right to the SB3 upgrade and there you're almost in PH-Pro territory. I say go long unless the budget is really tight.
And consider the convenience of radio throttles, at least to the pioint of comparing the costs to do the system. You still need a couple of wired ports for emergency reacquisition of control -- theoretically. I've never used mine for that, only to use my PowerCab on the main layout that is usually at the workbench/programming track.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Mike, the desire to avoid wireless was strictly a cost factor on his part. After reviewing and comparing costs at Tony's, it looks like almost to be a break-even point ! He would need at least eight fasia panels for the plug in throttles, plus the associated cables - not to mention the labor to install them.
The cost savings of the facia panels and cable pretty much covers the upgrade to the wireless system ! The price difference between the corded Engineer's throttles and the wireless ones wouldn't break the bank either.
An added bonus is the fact a few local guys already have the wireless NCE system, so - instantly more throttles when they go over to operate ! Overall, I think he would be much happier if he went that route in the long run.
Just have to convince him to cut the cord ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Problem with NCE's upgrade path seems to be that if you go the PowerCab and then down teh SmartBooster path, and need more, you end up getting a PH Pro unit anyway
PowerCab seems below or right at the limit of requirements for this layout, or I'd say get that now and add a PH Pto command station later, but since the PowerCab won;t quite handle it, go right for the PH Pro system.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Mark R.He would need at least eight fasia panels for the plug in throttles, plus the associated cables - not to mention the labor to install them.
Labor to install the panels or the cables?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have a Power Cab and am still way down on the learning curve as to all the features it has.
I suggest either calling or emailing Tony's Train Exchange. I was able to go there with my layout information and we discussed the different systems available. They carry several brands at good prices. Visit their site and there is a lot of information on each system and comparisons between them.
His first question was where did I live. Reason for asking is that if others in your area have a certain type, you can easily visit and take along your own cab. He asked if I knew of a layout in the area, which I did. It is operated with NCE equipment, so I could take my cab and cable along if I wanted to operate on his layout.
I find it much easier to operate 2 locos with the DCC than DC on a small layout, as they can work close together. With DC blocks you have to be careful not to cross the line. Larger layouts can have more space between trains.
Have fun,
Richard
Mark,
I always love getting something for nothing, so I don't pass up the opportunity to help others get it. Now, the extra radio throttles cost a bit more, but once you get this close, you might as well go wireless.
Tom,
Labor? Naw, dem panels install themselves. Not that it would cost anything except time, but I think that's the point.
Richard,
Good point on what others were using. It cuts both ways, though. I think they've already determined the locals are using NCE, so that's good.
Now, If I'd asked that question, I'd still be trying to figure out Digitrax throttles, etc, instead of running trains. I'm the only major local NCE user, but it's good enough stuff it just doesn't matter to me that everyone esle is Digitrax. At least there's always someone around to explain it to me when I operate elsewhere.
Randy - The PowerCab is already ruled out. I just can't see it being adequate. The layout consists of two staging yards with a main line run between the two. There are also two rather long branchlines in addition to a working yard in the middle of the mainline run. This layout will easily handle more than four operators once he sees what DCC can do for this layout. Up until now, we've been restricted by rotary switches and four DC cabs.
Tom - Both ! As mentioned above, this layout meanders through three rooms. That would be a fair bit of work (and money) to run all the cable for the facia panels where operators need to be. I was being conservative at eight panels even.
Richard - That road has already been well travelled, that's how / why he has settled on NCE.
tstage Mark R. He would need at least eight fasia panels for the plug in throttles, plus the associated cables - not to mention the labor to install them. Labor to install the panels or the cables? Tom
Mark R. He would need at least eight fasia panels for the plug in throttles, plus the associated cables - not to mention the labor to install them.
Hey, you think that I am going to help Mark install the UTPs for nothing?
Rich
Alton Junction
Mark R. Randy - The PowerCab is already ruled out. I just can't see it being adequate.
Randy - The PowerCab is already ruled out. I just can't see it being adequate.
Well, there you have it. The Power Cab is considered a "starter system" and, quite frankly, it is really intended for a small layout that is not expected to be upgraded.
The PH-Pro is definitely the way to go in this case.
Regarding wireless, I started out with the tethered PH-Pro and operated that way for years with a whole bunch of UTPs daisy chained together. I had two Pro Cab throttles, one for each main line track.
A couple of years ago, I decided to go wireless, so I bought the wireless base station / antenna and connected it to the base station. One at a time, I sent the two Pro Cabs back to NCE for conversion to wireless.
I love the freedom of wireless, replacing my old method of plugging, unplugging, and replugging Pro Cab cables into and out of the series of UTPs up and down the layout. That gets old fast.
Even with wireless, though, it is worthwhile to still have at least one UTP wired in line near the Programming Track. Programming steps seem to work better when tethered than wireless.
richhotrainWell, there you have it. The Power Cab is considered a "starter system" and, quite frankly, it is really intended for a small layout that is not expected to be upgraded.
Even so, it would be worth considering as a 2nd throttle for its ability to be a stand-alone programing throttle for programming locomotives at a bench...or a friend's bench.
Ok, supposing I can talk him into the wireless PH-Pro .... does he still need a "wired" throttle in order to do programming properly ? Seems rather redundant to me. (?)
IF that is the case, what would be needed to add to the wireless system in order to use a wired throttle ? Just asking that seems really backward !
With a wireles PH-Pro, you do not need a tethered throttle to program decoders on the main line or on the Programming Track.
I started with the tethered system, then later converted to wireless, so I already had cables and UTPs. At times, I will connect a cable from the throttle to a nearby UTP to program on the Programming Track. I do that because the response times seem a little faster.
But, again, with a wireless system, you can program in wireless mode.
Incidentally, the Power Cab is a tethered throttle.
If the DCC system is upgraded to wireless, the Power Cab must still be tethered.
However, NCE will accept a special order to convert the Power Cab to wireless mode.
Something else that is available: Litchfield Station in Arizona sells NCE ProCab Radio throttles with built-in battery chargers and rechargeable batteries installed. These throttles can be charged by plugging them into a UTP panel that has a power supply added to it, using the coiled cord. Having a throttle plugged in for charging does not have any effect at all on layout operation.
We have a 10-battery bulk charger at our club that we keep full of charged AAA NiMH batteries because the radio throttles each require 4 batteries. Throw-away batteries can get very expensive very quickly when you have a large layout and 8 or so throttles in regular use, so we switched to rechargeable batteries.
cacole Throw-away batteries can get very expensive very quickly when you have a large layout and 8 or so throttles in regular use, so we switched to rechargeable batteries.
Throw-away batteries can get very expensive very quickly when you have a large layout and 8 or so throttles in regular use, so we switched to rechargeable batteries.
Agreed, mine are non-rechargeable and they last about a year.
Mark R.Ok, supposing I can talk him into the wireless PH-Pro .... does he still need a "wired" throttle in order to do programming properly ? Seems rather redundant to me. (?)
It should not really take much talking to get him to go wireless. Just go to some club that is using wired throttels and watch them get tangled up and tripping over each other like the Keystone Cops for a couple of operating sessions and he will be convinced.
ALL of my primary DCC systems (Lenz, CVP, and NCE), and the Railcommand are wireless. Spent to many years tangled up in coiled cords to even consider anything else. The only time I use wired now is at the big shows where everyone else is trying to use wireless and conflicting with one another.
P.S. I got the NCE Pro-R w/power supply on eBay for $300.
Texas ZepherWireless can do everything.
One important exception should be noted that requires some sort of hardwired solution IMO.
You should wire in a programming track that can be either separate from the layout or can be isolated with a DPDT-Center Off switch from the rest of the layout. Then get in the habit of doing all programming on it. Otherwise, if you use the Programming Track mode with mutiple locos on the layout, you might find all your locos reset to the same CVs.
Mark R. Ok, supposing I can talk him into the wireless PH-Pro .... does he still need a "wired" throttle in order to do programming properly ?
Ok, supposing I can talk him into the wireless PH-Pro .... does he still need a "wired" throttle in order to do programming properly ?
No.
That's a lot different, buying a Power Cab to act as a high grade throttle on your PH-Pro system, than starting out with a Power Cab and upgrading and upgrading to eventually reach the equivalent of a PH-Pro system in the first place.
For me, as a sole operator of a home based layout, I have no need for the Power Cab since my PH-Pro wireless system can do everything that I need to do.
Two things. By the time NCE had the PowerCab, Digitrax was YEARS beyond needing hex for anything. PowerCab was more an answer to the Zephyr than anything, and I've had mine 10+ years. Hex went away with the DT300 throttles. Only the original DT100 needed 'hex' - it was';t really hex, they needed some way on a 2 digit display to get numbers above 99. I have a DT100 (the oldest stuff still works on new systems) and it makes a great train running throttle, but I wouldn't want to program decoders with it. It's super simple now, select a CV either by scrolling through with the knob or keying it in on the number pad, select a value the same way using the other knob. Done.
And there is absolutely NOTHING that prevents Digitrax users from using Advanced Consisting, except perhaps ignorance of its existence. And maybe if they didn't reset their system every session, they wouldn't have to make up the consists each time - those are NOT lost when you turn off the system (unless the battery is dead).
I, too, still have a number of Simplex Radio DT100R and they still work!
This thought if not having to remember how to do things is getting a little cliché but I guess if one has to use their GPS to get to work each morning then you will fit right into the new millennium!
All it proves is that you don’t want to take the time to learn anything anymore and expect the MFG to do everything for you.
You get what you expect and have to put up with it!
I went with the early Digitrax as I needed RADIO walk-around with then new layout and no one else had anything except hand head telephones to use as radio throttles.
And then when a certain company came out with their Radio it had a lot of problems (which they finally straightened out) and Digitrax was no better when they finally came out with the DUPLEX!
I was one of those that helped figured out the Duplex problem and helped get the latest DUPLEX fixes.
But for 5 years I was running with Digitrax Radio before the others finally had a good system to use.
Am I unhappy with my purchase - NO!
DO the other systems work well - YES they do!
So there is NO clear winner here – they all work and they ALL still have bugs!
While one system will work great in my application someone else with the same system will have NOTHING but TROUBLE!
It is the way we build the layouts not the MFG of the DCC system!
And this story about purchasing as System because the THROTTLE fits your had is a little ridiculous at best!
I have used ALL of the other types and not one I have use was any better than the other – so that story just doesn’t hold water with me!
BOB H – Clarion, PA