A friend of mine has decided to take the leap to DCC. He has decided after trying many different systems, he wants to go with NCE. He has a medium sized layout with mostly non-sound engines. He doesn't want to go wireless. Cost is of more concern than anything obviously, but he's not sure what he needs.
I was thinking a Powerhouse Pro as the base system and add some Engineer's Throttles. He would obviously also need the face plates to plug the throttles into on the facia.
Am I heading in the right direction ? Any particular face places, etc. that are preferrable ?
Thanks,
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
The 'size' of the layout has nothing to do with what size system you need. The number of engines(current draw) is the determining factor. The system you describe is a large 5+ amp system that will support the concurrent operation of lots of engines and throttles.
The PowerCab starter system may be a better way to go as he has price issues. It can 'grow' with your layout and is very upgradeable.....
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Mark, I like your suggestion of the PH-Pro 5 amp system for that is the one that I have.
Your friend could spend less and buy the NCE Power Cab, but that leaves little room for expansion.
So, in my opinion, the PH-Pro is the way to go. It includes the command station, a 5 amp booster and one Pro Cab (i.e., the throttle).
If he adds a second Pro Cab, he can double the capacity for loco storage and share throttles with a friend.
The face plate, that is the Universal Throttle Panel (UTP), can be screwed into the fascia every 7 feet or so. The UTPs are daisy chained with a series of 7 foot cables.
NCE sells all of these pieces of equipment, and it all can be purchased at deep discounts from Tony's Trains, MB Klein, etc.
The PH-Pro has provision for wiring to a dedicated Programming Track, so that makes programming decoders a breeze.
There is also a serial port on the command station, so it is easy to interface with JMRI and Decoder Pro via a laptop computer.
Rich
Alton Junction
Jim posted his reply as I was typing mine, so let me add a comment about the Power Cab. As I said, it is a good starter system, and it is "upgradeable". But what that means is that it can be added to a subsequently purchased PH-Pro, so in effect it becomes a very expensive throttle. I still like the idea of starting out with the PH-Pro which may be all that your friend ever needs unless he eventually decides to go wireless.
SO how many engines CAN A Power Cab System run at one time?
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Medium sized layout doesn't mean anything. How many trains/locomotives will be running at once (determines power needs)? How many operators at any given time (determines number of throttles)?
For basic use, a Power Cab has 2 amps output (4+ locomotives), and can support a total of 4 throttles. A great starting point, especially if he likes walk-around control. Costs $155 to get started.
If more power is needed, add the Smart Booster. This adds more power (5 amps), lets the Powercab be used as an independent throttle, and allows 6 throttles at once. Additional boosters can be added to the SB for more power (we are now talking power districts), but the 6 throttle limit remains.
The Smart Booster can be added to the Power Cab when the additional throttles or power is needed.
If you need more than 6 throttles or want wireless, then the Powerhouse Pro. We use the PP for the base at our HOn3 modular club because almost all our members (15+) have a Power Cab at home, which works as a throttle during setups. We have run 12 trains simultaneously on the modular layout at public shows. But I don't see the need for the PP when you don't need more than 6 throttles.
just my thoughts and experiences
Fred W
Mark,
If your friend can afford the PH Pro then that would be the way to do. A couple of questions first:
If your friend chooses to go the PH Pro route then all he will really need in addition to that are the UTP panels and RJ-12 cables. First determine how many UTP panels are needed and where he specifically wants each of them to be on the fascia of his layout. You can then determine the number of cables needed and how long each cable needs to be in order to daisy-chain the UTP panels totogether.
If your friend doesn't want to make the cables himself, there are outfits online that can make custom-length cables for a reason prices. This will minimize cable sag from underneath the layout.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The basic Power Cab has a two number recall stack, so two trains can be operated simultaneously by switching back and forth between the entries in the recall stack. The recall stack can include consist addresses. I believe a Smart Booster increases the recall stack to 6, which is what a Power Pro throttle has.
We use the NCE PowerHouse Pro with radio throttles for our club layout with three add-on boosters, and have two PowerCab systems that are dedicated to programming and wheel cleaning so the main layout does not have to be shut down to perform these functions.
We started with only the basic PowerHouse Pro 5 Amp system, and added additional boosters as the layout expanded and was divided into power districts.
cmrproducts SO how many engines CAN A Power Cab System run at one time? BOB H - Clarion, PA
The Power Cab is a 2 amp system that can run two locos at a time.
The Powerhouse Pro (PH-Pro) is a 5 amp system that can run six locos at a time.
cacole The basic Power Cab has a two number recall stack, so two trains can be operated simultaneously by switching back and forth between the entries in the recall stack. The recall stack can include consist addresses. I believe a Smart Booster increases the recall stack to 6, which is what a Power Pro throttle has. We use the NCE PowerHouse Pro with radio throttles for our club layout with three add-on boosters, and have two PowerCab systems that are dedicated to programming and wheel cleaning so the main layout does not have to be shut down to perform these functions. We started with only the basic PowerHouse Pro 5 Amp system, and added additional boosters as the layout expanded and was divided into power districts.
The Power House Pro (PH-Pro) is a 5 amp command station and booster.
The throttle for a PH-Pro is called a Pro Cab.
The Power Cab is a 2 amp throttle.
Got that? LOL
I may have not stated my request properly.
With the Power Cab being the Command Station
How many operators can the Power Cab support running at the same time with additional Throttles plugged in?
3 - 6 operators - that is what I was asking
as my understianding is one can add additional boosters to be able to run more trains.
Bob, the Power Cab supports two throttles.
Bob,
With the newer V1.65 chip in the Power Cab, you can operate three (3) additional throttles for a total of four throttles - including the Power Cab. There are also three additional addresses (8, 9, and 10) now available for non-cab devices - e.g. NCE USB interface board, Mini Panel, and AIU.
I bought a power cab recently and it has 6 loco recall.Ive run 2 sound locos and 2 none sound in consist and the built-in amp meter never went over 0.7amps.these where bachmann s4's and 70 toners.
tstage Bob, With the newer V1.65 chip in the Power Cab, you can operate three (3) additional throttles for a total of four throttles (including the Power Cab). Tom
With the newer V1.65 chip in the Power Cab, you can operate three (3) additional throttles for a total of four throttles (including the Power Cab).
ahh, that's right. That was Fred's point.
I stand corrected. Thanks, Tom.
Thanks for the replies so far guys. As a rough guess, the layout is about 15 X 30 and can easily support four operators. He has a few sound engines, and if he gets into DCC, I can see this expanding as well. I really don't think the two amp system would be adequate this being the case. I don't want to see him coming up short early in the game.
cmrproductsHow many operators can the Power Cab support running at the same time with additional Throttles plugged in? 3 - 6 operators - that is what I was asking
"With the newer V1.65 chip in the Power Cab, you can operate three (3) additional throttles for a total of four throttles (including the Power Cab). There are also three additional addresses (8, 9, and 10) available for non-cab devices - e.g. NCE USB interface board, Mini Panel, and AIU."
There needs to be some clarification on this topic. Although the PowerCab with the expansion chip may be capable of supporting a total of four throttles (or operators), you are still limited by the 2 amp output. So if operator 1 is running a two unit consist drawing 1 amp, and operator 2 is running another 2 unit consist drawing 1 amp, operators 3 and 4 won't be doing much of anything.
If the thought is that there needs to be the capability of supporting up to 6 operators, then you'd need to look into purchasing the SB3 (if that's the proper item) to increase the system amperage capability. I don't know what that extra item would cost, but if it were me and I know I wanted that capability I'd just invest in the Power Pro system to begin with.
IIRC, the Power Cab/Smart Booser (SB5) combo would run you about $100 cheaper than the PH Pro. That would allow your friend 5A of total output, the ability to disconnect/connect the Power Cab around the layout, and enough $$$ left over to purchase an additional throttle.
The other plus to that scenario is that the Power Cab (being a command station/booster/throttle rolled-up-into-one) can then be used to program locomotives at either the layout...or at a bench using the Power Cab's PCP panel. Something to consider...
I agree, maxman, and that is why I mentioned earlier that Mark was on the right track recommending the PH-Pro to his friend.
Although the Power Cab is upgradeable, if you are going to do that, you might just as well start with the PH-Pro, budget permitting.
Our club has the Power Pro 5 amp system. We have run as many as ten sound locos and the DCC current was about 3 amps.We have a DIY DCC amp meter. The booster trips out at 4.95 amps when we run a breaker test.
At the far end of the yard ladder is a program track. We never program on the main.
We have had as many as four operators. Each have their own home layouts with a Power Cab and they bring the cab part to the club.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
NCE is not foolish.
They are not going to design the Power Cab with add-ons and upgrades to be cheaper than the Power House Pro.
If you are going to buy the Power Cab and then add on and upgrade, you are going to be better off with the virtually unlimited capabilities of the PH-Pro.
richhotrainIf he adds a second Pro Cab, he can double the capacity for loco storage and share throttles with a friend.
"The Power Cab is a 2 amp system that can run two locos at a time.
The Powerhouse Pro (PH-Pro) is a 5 amp system that can run six locos at a time."
These statements also need clarification. First, there is no "storage" capability in either the PowerCab or the Procab. There are recall stacks in both cabs. The PowerCab has 2 recalls, and the ProCab 6. What this means is that one can switch between 2 locos or 6 locos without having to re-enter the loco numbers. But these are not parking spaces which have to be emptied before other locos can be run. If you want to run something else, just enter the loco number and away you go. The system will write over the number entered on the cab and the new one will be there.
Second, the number of locos the ProCab and the PowerCab will operate is, again, determined by the power draw, not the number of loco numbers entered in the recall stacks.
maxmanThere are recall stacks in both cabs. The PowerCab has 2 recalls, and the ProCab 6.
Actually, some more clarification, maxman. That was true for the older V1.1 and V1.28 Power Cabs. The V1.65 Power Cabs allow from 2 to 6 recalls now. The biggest difference between the Power Cab and PH Pro is the total output (1.7A vs 5.0A) and the total number of cab addresses (4 vs 63).
richhotrainNCE is not foolish. They are not going to design the Power Cab with add-ons and upgrades to be cheaper than the Power House Pro.
Rich,
Here's the numbers that I came up with using Tony's Train Exchange web site (including discount)
The Power Cab and SB5 comes with their own power supplies. The only additional cost would be UTP panel(s) and cables. However, you can just plug the Power Cab right into the connector ports of the SB5 using the 4-connector coily coil.
The downside to the latter is the total number of cabs allowed (4 vs 63). However, the plus of being able to program on either the layout or at your bench with the Power Cab is a real plus in my eyes.
tstage Actually, some more clarification, maxman. That was true for the older V1.1 and V1.28 Power Cabs. The V1.65 Power Cabs allow from 2 to 6 recalls now. The biggest difference between the Power Cab and PH Pro is the total output (1.7A vs 5.0A) and the total number of cab addresses (4 vs 63). Tom
This is the information I was looking for
Thanks
tstageHere's the numbers that I came up with using Tony's Train Exchange web site (including discount) NCE PH Pro - $413 TOTAL: $413 NCE Power Cab - $156 Smart Booster (SB5) - $172 Extra throttle (CAB-06) - $80 TOTAL: $408
Not quite $413 total. You still have to add in the cost of a power supply.
tstage richhotrain NCE is not foolish. They are not going to design the Power Cab with add-ons and upgrades to be cheaper than the Power House Pro. Rich, Here's the numbers that I came up with using Tony's Train Exchange web site (including discount) NCE PH Pro - $413 TOTAL: $413 NCE Power Cab - $156 Smart Booster (SB5) - $172 Extra throttle (CAB-06) - $80 TOTAL: $408
richhotrain NCE is not foolish. They are not going to design the Power Cab with add-ons and upgrades to be cheaper than the Power House Pro.
Yeah, but what if I have a $6 off coupon on the PH-Pro?
maxman tstage Here's the numbers that I came up with using Tony's Train Exchange web site (including discount) NCE PH Pro - $413 TOTAL: $413 NCE Power Cab - $156 Smart Booster (SB5) - $172 Extra throttle (CAB-06) - $80 TOTAL: $408
tstage Here's the numbers that I came up with using Tony's Train Exchange web site (including discount) NCE PH Pro - $413 TOTAL: $413 NCE Power Cab - $156 Smart Booster (SB5) - $172 Extra throttle (CAB-06) - $80 TOTAL: $408
Thanks for that correction, maxman. The total for the PH Pro and power supply would then be $458:
So, there's advantages/disadvantages going with either set up. Okay, Rich, your turn to rebut.
I'm not as expert at most folks replying, but if cost is a concern remember to budget for "downstream" subdistrict circuit boards if needed; e.g., if there are reversing items (loops, wyes, turntables). On my modest layout I have two reversing loops and a short main, so my costs (additional to a 5A PH-Pro and an optional utility throttle) included boards for 2 reversing and one circuit breaker board for the three subdistricts. Consulting with Tony (I advise that) we concluded I only needed the less fancy OG-ARs and OG-CB respectively, about $80-90 I'd recall.
I (if the grandkids are here) can practically only run 3 locos at a time, 2 on the main and one in the yard, plus some others that may have been moved (are active) and the sound/lights are on. My system does the job, even when the two trains on the main are 2-loco consists; i.e., 5 locos moving.
So, I'll advise, if possible go with the 5A system and consult with Tony on exact equipment optimal for the situation. Maybe also, plan for a phase 1 to get started and some planned additions if needed (e.g., third throttle) down the road if desired to spread out the spending.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent