Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
davidmbedardGo buy an MRC decoder and be happy with it. No one's opinion should get in the way of your spending. However, the fact is that Athearn has dropped the MRC line if decoders because of the failure rate. The fact that no mfg actually supports MRC on the OEM side of things speaks volumes. They once did, but now Soundtraxx and Loksound has the lion's share of the OEM market. Reliability aside, MRC has been eclipsed by every other mfg of sound decoders in terms of sound quality and accuracy. MRC is still around because of the low cost of their product, not because they make a quality product in any way. You have been now informed as to why we don't use MRC under our hoods, now it is up to you what your time is worth. David B
Well said David! Really its about your budget, that is the one thing MRC has going for it is price point. but to Davids point. You get what you pay for.
I don't need to explain anything else so.. Happy modeling!
DANOC&O lives on!!! Visit my railfan community site: http://www.crtraincrew.com
I wa rooting around today for info on a non-sound decoder choice for my first DC to DCC conversion (non-sound) but I came across this recent thread on sound decoders which I "favorite"-ed. It may be of help.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/214272.aspx
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I have three MRC sound decoders and am very happy with them. I love them. They worked perfect right out of the package, and two have been going for more than five years now. I should note I model in N scale, and the diesels I have cannot accept Tsunami or other decoders.
People always say they want the "best" and "high quality" stuff, but history of consumer electronics proves that people really buy CHEAP. That is how MRC is staying in the market. Newbies and inexperienced purchasers see "sound", look at the price and buy.
I think they sound fine, but, we have found they dont play well with Decoder Pro or JMRI. None of my friends engines with MRC boards in them will program on his programing track at the computer using Decoder Pro. Where as his QSI and Soundtraxx boards do just fine. I dont think he has any Loksound boards yet. I have 2 MRC (1 steam 1 diesel) that I programed using my NCE Powercab and they have done just fine over the past few years. Both are currerntly out of a model but I will be reinstalling the steam one shortly in a PFM brass engine. If one of the other brands could get their prices down to the MRC level while maintaining thier current quality levels, MRC would be out of business IMHO. Many modelers that use MRC would like to run other brands, but the higher price pushes them to take a chance on the MRC decoders. In the past year, I have only had 1 MRC decoder fail outright. I have had them loose thier programing and need to be reprogramed, but I have had that issue with Digitrax and TCS decoders from time to time as well. Cheers Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
A person who recently moved to Arizona from Chicago brought several Athearn Genesis locomotives that he purchased when they were using MRC sound decoders, but he had never ran them.
The sound is okay, but motor control is horrible. Four of them surged, stalled, lurched, or ran so erratically that we had to piggy-back NCE or TCS decoders into them for motor control purposes and totally bypass the MRC motor drive circuitry.
These are the first MRC decoders we have encountered at our club because everyone has shunned them over the years due to their terrible reputation. TCS or NCE are our preferred motor and light control decoders, and Tsunami, QSI, or LokSound are our sound choices.
The last time I saw the pricing of newer MRC sound decoders they seem to be more expensive than the other brands.
emdmikeI think they sound fine, but, we have found they dont play well with Decoder Pro or JMRI. None of my friends engines with MRC boards in them will program on his programing track at the computer using Decoder Pro.
One of the big issues with early MRC decoders was that they did not support 'read back' of the CV's. You could 'write' to the CV, but you could not 'read' it to verify that it was written correctly. I have an Athearn Genesis MP15AC with the MRC sound decoder factory installed. It was impossible to program the address even on a Digitrax program track with a 'booster'. I finally calculated the CV17/18/29 values and programmed them 'on the main'.
I also have an Atlas NRE GenSet with a MRC decoder - install went fine, but the sound is really not correct for a GenSet. They advertise about 'stereo' sound - but do not provide dual speakers, and I cannot ofr the life of me understand how one can get 'stereo' in a model train engine. This is just the usual marketing hype you read in their magazine ads.
Until they get serious and address some of their known issues, I will not being buying any more of their DCC products.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Experience is a big factor to what products one buys.
I have had a BAD experience with MRC sound decoders (2), so I will never buy another one.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I have several MRC sound decoders installed. One has been in service for 6-years and another nearly as long. Both have operated without problems.
Our Athearn Challenger came with an MRC sound decoder and worked fine for about a year and then just quit. No amount of tweaking would bring it back to life. I finally just replaced it with a Soundtraxx LC decoder.
Most of my self installed sound decoders are Soundtraxx DSD100 or 101LC decoders. I have a couple of DSX decoders installed as well. Only one failure out of nearly 20 installed. Too bad Soundtraxx discontinued the LC series of sound decoders.
I have a couple of BLI steamers with sound. A Hudson and a Mikado. Both have been in service for years and never given any trouble. I don't believe their sound quality can be beat either.
I don't have a Tsunami or ESU in my collection, yet. The next loco purchase will probably force me to break down and spend the money for one or the other.
For now, I am content with my slightly eclectic mix of sound decoders.
Back to the point. I have no complaints about MRC sound decoders. Those I have personally installed have operated without trouble for years. Maybe I'm just lucky.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
I have to agre with Mike. I'm using MRC for two N Scale Kato F-3A units because they are drop ins. But, after much hair pulling and online discussion, I have been unable to modify the top speed setting of either. Which creates a problem, since I had planned on speed matching them to other decoder equiped F's, so I had two sets with sound.
The sound is adequate and I'll only have a couple of sound locos on the layout anyway.
I'm using Decoder Pro and a PR-3 for programming.
If I had another "easy" choice for the F units, I'd switch.
Joel
I use the MRC EMD 567 in one of my CF7s..It sounds ok and does the job but I use it in the DC mode on my MRC Tech 6 and I haven't fooled with any of the CV sittings except the horn selection(CV50) and bell type(CV52) and the master volume F13.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I returned to the hobby after almost 6 or so years, had nscale and almost all digitrax, but decided HO this time, I started with MRC, honestly not knowing more or doing any research, figuring electronics is electronics. All my engines had MRC and at first I was pleased, but I heard a Loksound, saw how it was excellent at the motor control. I bought one for an Athearn engine, I was sold, now switching all MRC's out to Loksound.
But I will say this, the MRC decoders don't run bad, just not what I wanted, slow speed crawls, and after hearing a Lok, I have decided the sound files are cleaner. Could be me selling myself on the quality.
I won't hate on MRC though, they have been my DC power pack of choice all the years in the hobby, and Frank at MRC is very responsive to any questions. So I give them an A+ for that type of service. There is a nitch for all DCC companies.
BRAKIE I use the MRC EMD 567 in one of my CF7s..It sounds ok and does the job but I use it in the DC mode on my MRC Tech 6 and I haven't fooled with any of the CV sittings except the horn selection(CV50) and bell type(CV52) and the master volume F13.
Actually, you are using it in DCC mode. When you are operating the Tech 6 in "dual" mode, you are operating it as a very limited DCC system. This actually brings up something else I don't like about MRC, and that is their outrageous, sometimes misleading, advertising. For example they used to specifically advertise their "blackbox" technology as bringing out the sound in DCC lcocos without DCC(they have since changed the wording). No, their "blackbox" technology is DCC.
I purchased exactly one MRC sound decoder, just to see for myself if they really are as bad as some people say. Luckily I got it for a large discount. It runs, but compared to my go-to TCS motor decoders, the motor control is horrible. But even more so - the sounds are BAD. It's supposed to be an Alco 244 but compared to others it doesn;t sound much liek one. ANd the horns are all muddled. Speaking of, it has some 16 different horns, selectable by CV - only no one, not even MRC tech support when I emailed them, can tell me which type of horn each one is supposed to be.
It is highly unlikely I will waste any money or time trying out these 'new and improved' MRC sound decoders. If you want cheap sound - Digitrax is much better than MRC< despite the MRC claim of being 16 bit sound whereas the Digitrax is 8 bit. Couple a Digitrax sound decoder with some of the much better executed sound projects (from members of the Digitraxsound Yahoo Group - some are now showing up in the Sound Depot) and you have better motor control and better sound. Still not as good as Loksound, but if you really need to keep the cost down... and MRC wants as much as Loksound, so if you are going to spend that much money, don;t waste it on MRC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
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The Tech 6 has a DC and Dual( DCC) mode and its far advanced then what most realize.
By adjusting the start and top volt in DC you can actually speed match like brands..I speed match 2 Athearn RTR locomotives a GP38-2 and GP40-2 using P2=8..There is acceleration and deceleration momentum in the DC mode.
My P2K DC SW8 and P2K GP7 is set at P3=10(acceleration) and P4= 12(deceleration).The start volt is P2=3 and top volt is P5=7...
I also have a Athearn DC SW7 that is program P2=3,P3=8 and P4=9..P5=5.It only take seconds to program locomotives and I have a list of the DC settings for the locomotives I will be using on Slate Creek.
I use the Dual mode(DCC) with my Bachmann 70Tonner and only set the momentum and speed step.
MRC doesn't recommend running a standard DC engine in the dual mode.
Though most of my engines are Loksound,QSI,or Tsunami,I have 3 UP 4-8-4s and 1 Challenger that came with MRC decoders(my first engines - I plead ignorance).They all ran,and sounded,awful. I put a QSI Titan in the Challenger,the 4-8-4s are boxed,awaiting new decoders. When running the MRC's,the only realistic sound was the sound of wailing,and gnashing of teeth...and those sounds were coming from me...I can't think of a scenario where I would try MRC again.
Mike
middlemanthe only realistic sound was the sound of wailing,and gnashing of teeth.
That's my take on sound regardless of brand after the first 15-20 minutes at the club.
I'm sure if the guys would lower the volume it may not be half as bad.
Yes, they all seem to come out of the box on max volume, toy train style. For a public venue club show (we're modular and go to different palces) I tend to crank them up, or you can;t hear the sound from even 2 feet away. At home I turn them way down. If one side of my room is supposed to represent a place 15 miles away from the other side, you shouldn't be able to hear the locos working on the opposite side of the room.
I had the opposite sentiment. I despise Digitrax, and would recommend no one ever get them. I had two of them, and the sounds that cats make having sex sound better than Digitrax. The motor control is the worst I've ever experienced, hands down.
That's just my opinion.
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emdmike I also have an Atlas NRE GenSet with a MRC decoder - install went fine, but the sound is really not correct for a GenSet. They advertise about 'stereo' sound - but do not provide dual speakers, and I cannot ofr the life of me understand how one can get 'stereo' in a model train engine. This is just the usual marketing hype you read in their magazine ads. Jim
When I look at the specs and the photos of this product I see 2 speakers (two 28mm round speakers).http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/MRC-HO-1902-DC-DCC-Sound-Decoder-Diesel-Proto-2000-p/mrc-1902.htmIs the 'stereo sound' claim actually referring to, "Dual out-of-sync EMD 567B Prime Movers for realistic operation" ?Isn't this somewhat analogus to the 'reverb' option on the Tsunami that can make it appear to be two engines??
Sure looks like this subject thread has stirred up lots of opinions, ...really what I was looking forward to....I'm learning, thanks, Brian
PS: I must be sure and review that other subject thread that was referenced above.BTW: One of my ideas here was to utilize a 'dual engine sounding decoder' like this MRC one in a dummy B-loco between 2 A-unit locos of a cheaper brand that I have. Or maybe in the 'fuel tender tank car' between 2 older Spectrum CSX desiels I have. Then I might also put an economy, 'just motor, decoder in the 2 powered locos sandwiching that dummy-B or fuel tender.
Like I said, you need to check out some projects made by people who have figured them out. The default ones are pretty poor. The improved ones for diesels have things like notch transition effects and HEP for the F40PH. The steam ones have rod clank and all. The Digitrax sound decoders are definitely not somethign you simply take out of the package and use, they do requirte access to a PR3 to load sounds - the generic default (supposedly) SD38 is blah at best, and the steam sounds in the default sound set are even worse. Both are compromised by having two sound projects loaded at the same time (CV60 switches between them) so there is insufficient memory for either one to be optimized. All the work from the members of the Digitraxsound Yahoo group fully utilize the storage space - one of them leaves less than 100 bytes of memory free when loaded, talk about squeaking it in. There are Youtube videos of both the stock ones and these much improved sound sets, there's simply no comparison. The real shame is that it's so complicated to get the optimum out of these decoders, so only a couple of people are really doing anything.
I have MRC, Loksound, and MTH which are all the same Alco 244 prime mover, and the Loksound is definitely the best of the bunch.
Larry: I hadn't thought of that - I usually just have sound turned on for the engine(s) I'm running,and then only about 1/2(or less) max. volume. I can imagine that in a club setting,with quite a few engines going,it could be overwhelming,no matter how good the individual units sound.
Hmm, QSI comes out with true stereo sound, suddenly MRC does too. I wonder if their CPU is actually capable of playing two sounds, so they can go in and out of sync, or if it just plays a fixed soundtrack of two prime movers, slightly out of phase with each other that never vary in how out of phase they are.
middleman Larry: I hadn't thought of that - I usually just have sound turned on for the engine(s) I'm running,and then only about 1/2(or less) max. volume. I can imagine that in a club setting,with quite a few engines going,it could be overwhelming,no matter how good the individual units sound. Mike
Mike,The worst offenders seems to be the MTH steam locomotives..Those suckers are loud.
I enjoy sound but,sure do wish they would lower the volume.I don't say anything about since most of the guys don't have a home layout and the club is the only place they can run their models.
My Bachmann S4 volume is just loud enough to hear up close and fades as the engine moves into the distance.
rrinker Like I said, you need to check out some projects made by people who have figured them out. The default ones are pretty poor. The improved ones for diesels have things like notch transition effects and HEP for the F40PH. The steam ones have rod clank and all. The Digitrax sound decoders are definitely not something you simply take out of the package and use, they do requite access to a PR3 to load sounds - the generic default (supposedly) SD38 is blah at best, and the steam sounds in the default sound set are even worse. Both are compromised by having two sound projects loaded at the same time (CV60 switches between them) so there is insufficient memory for either one to be optimized. All the work from the members of the Digitraxsound Yahoo group fully utilize the storage space - one of them leaves less than 100 bytes of memory free when loaded, talk about squeaking it in. There are Youtube videos of both the stock ones and these much improved sound sets, there's simply no comparison. The real shame is that it's so complicated to get the optimum out of these decoders, so only a couple of people are really doing anything. I have MRC, Loksound, and MTH which are all the same Alco 244 prime mover, and the Loksound is definitely the best of the bunch. --Randy
Like I said, you need to check out some projects made by people who have figured them out. The default ones are pretty poor. The improved ones for diesels have things like notch transition effects and HEP for the F40PH. The steam ones have rod clank and all. The Digitrax sound decoders are definitely not something you simply take out of the package and use, they do requite access to a PR3 to load sounds - the generic default (supposedly) SD38 is blah at best, and the steam sounds in the default sound set are even worse. Both are compromised by having two sound projects loaded at the same time (CV60 switches between them) so there is insufficient memory for either one to be optimized. All the work from the members of the Digitraxsound Yahoo group fully utilize the storage space - one of them leaves less than 100 bytes of memory free when loaded, talk about squeaking it in. There are Youtube videos of both the stock ones and these much improved sound sets, there's simply no comparison. The real shame is that it's so complicated to get the optimum out of these decoders, so only a couple of people are really doing anything.
I'm a little confused here. Did you mean to aim these comments at the MRC decoders rather than Digitrax??I am beginning to get that feeling that in order to try and get anything decent out of the MRC's you need to be a 'programing type' which is definitely not my forte (maybe age etc, ha...ha)
I had a very recent experience with Loksound decoders. I had purchased a few A-B lashed-up F3 units from Broadway (their Precision Scale Models), with the idea of putting these 'sound chassis under some of my non-sound locos.
I had only run these units a few times to test them out when I got them. I was NOT impressed with their sound (lacking 'body') and very low volume. I took them to the Balt train show (to sell) a few weeks ago, and there discover a Loksound factory representative. I ask him to run my locos and see if he could improve upon their older decoder sounds. We again experienced the very low volume and seemly lack of sound 'body'. He suggested that if I should keep them, I might want to replace the older decoders (V'3.5) with the new V4.0 (I think those model numbers are correct?). BUT he did demonstrate the great motor control capabilities of Loksound decoders.
I brought these units home and ran a little test of my own. Without the shells on, I ran the locos while placing a 'cupped hand' over the backside of the speaker(s). WOW, what a difference, and it seemed that I could even improve upon that sound by the size to my 'enclosure' (cupped hand). I then put the shells back on, but I taped close all those venting fan holes on the roof of the shells. WOW, again I was pleasantly surprised by the 'body' in the sound, and in the horn. I'm keeping these PSM locos now, and do not see a need to upgrade to the newer chip.But one last observation. I think these older model Loksound decoders are fine for diesel engines, but not steam ones. I have listened to numerous Youtube presentations of sound equipped steam engines and NOT found Loksound capabile of giving a good whistle, nor robust sound I'm looking for in big articulated locos....such as the Allegheny:http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15747
...or H7 i'm having kitbashed:http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27672
MRC = Made Really Cheap!
No, I was commenting about Digitrax. MRC decoders have no programming, other than selecting a prime mover option for some (which they DO document) and selecting a whistle (which they do not). ANd some have a selection of bells (also not documented).
Digitrax sound decoders are fully programmable - not only can you change sounds but you cna change the 'script' that plays which sound when, and under what conditions. But unlike Loksound, which can do the same (V4, not Select), it is ridiculously complicated to do - basically you need to program near low lever on the actual processor. Fred Miller has a program that simplifies this greatly, but it's still more complex than Loksound - which is probably why there are only a couple of people even bothering to try. One of the more interesting things Fred came up with is a project that makes the decoder into a multi-sound stationary sound generator - like the Dream Player sort of thing, so you cna have multiple under-layout sounds, like a background of nature sounds with an occasional sawing and tree crash for putting under a lumber camp, that sort of thing. That's what my Soundbug will likely end up being used for.
Loksound Select and QSI allow you to swap the complete sound set, but not adjust the 'script'
im going to have to go down this road also i have 2 athearn big boys with MRC , havent run them a whole lot but , im not crazy about the sound & i will have to put soundtraxx with speakers into my proto 2-8-8-2 , but that will be
the end of my sound cause i dont put sound decoders in diesels , just steam
After using MRC for 5 years (2006 - 2011) I have finally switched most locos to Tsunami DCC and/or DCC Sound. Best MARS light effect inthe business.
Regarding MRC sound it is not that bad and the 1632 board compliments the SD70 air/electric start, air let off, etc quite well. I've also found programming to be very easy.
Regarding low speed "crawl"...just setting CV2 seems to do the job for me in all Genesis, Athearn and Kato locos. In fact one of my Katos crawls as slow as a Paragon 2 loco and that is "crawl."
I have recycled the MRC decoders into lesser run locos or sold them as used on EBAY. I have only had to return 2 deocders out of 50 (4%) to MRC and they were promptly replaced.
It is all personal preference, budget, etc.
Thom