There is no current Digitrax throttle that needs hexidecimal. Not since long before the PowerCab came out.
Digitrax stopped needing hex when the DT100 was retired 13 years ago.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Dang, and the only throttle I have on my stored Digitrax Radio Chief system is the DT100. Is it even usable as an ordinary throttle? Looks like I'm going to have to pony up the $190 for a proper DT440 doesn't it? I still plan on using this system even though it's been stored for a long time - its the old Digitrax Chief with the DB150 base plus DT100 throttle that was later converted to a radio (simplex).
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I would like to thank you and all the others for the helpful tips it was very interesting to get this feed back. Again thanks. To those others I guess you cannot ask a simple question with out being accused of something. I was just looking for a little help. I have a 6X10 HO layout and not going to run sessions. I do not have time to commit to a club, maybe in the future.
ROY-EL
Glad those of us with a positive attitude could help.
Unfortunately there are some people who from time to time post negative comments. Best advice is to just ignore them. You have done nothing wrong. Definately don't let them discourage you from posting.
It happened to me a few times when I first joined, and it took me a while to stop myself from getting annoyed.
Dave
P.S. Welcome to the forums
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
You can still use a DT100. I have one I picked up cheap on eBay. It's great for running trains, as long as you don't need more than the first few functions, plus I have an annoying habit of trying to click the knob to change direction, which is something every newer throttle does.
The DT400/402 is SO much easier to use though, it's probbaly worth it. If you've been using the system all along, it might not be a big deal since you'd be used to it by now, but if it's been stored for a long time, it's a night and day difference.
If it's a Chief, it should be a DCS100. If it's the type with speaker clip wire terminals instead of screws, it might be so old that it has the older firmware that won;t do over F8, if so it will require a trip to Florida for upgrade. If it has screw terminlas then it should be fine, the firmware fix went into production before they switched to the screw terminals. Another alternative would be to get a Zephyr Xtra and use that as command station, and the old unit as a booster. That combo will run up to 20 locos and 20 throttles, if that will be enough to handle your layout.
Roy-el To those others I guess you cannot ask a simple question with out being accused of something. I was just looking for a little help. I have a 6X10 HO layout and not going to run sessions.
To those others I guess you cannot ask a simple question with out being accused of something. I was just looking for a little help. I have a 6X10 HO layout and not going to run sessions.
I stand corrected and I appologize.
Thanks for the additional detail regarding your layout. The more information the better when it comes to reccomending a DCC system.
So far we know that you have a smallish layout, Are probably a lone user and that you want a simple system to run. How many locos do you want to run? would you prefer to be sitting in a static position for runnning your trains or would you rather be walking aroud following them?
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Roy-el I would like to thank you and all the others for the helpful tips it was very interesting to get this feed back. Again thanks. To those others I guess you cannot ask a simple question with out being accused of something. I was just looking for a little help. I have a 6X10 HO layout and not going to run sessions. I do not have time to commit to a club, maybe in the future.
Glad to see you did not get scared off by those who are married to their "connected devises".
I would again recommend you look at the ergonomics of the various throttles and see what suits you best. Beyond that they all work about the same.
Sheldon
Well, this is all about personal preferences!
In my opinion, Digitrax will not work for me, I prefer Lenz. NCE also made a good impression to me. We spend way over $1000 for our club on a Digitrax system because we would like to be compatible to other club members to visit us for ops sessions on our layout. Right now we think about to sell it and go with NCE. There are a lot of reason for us to change it, too many to list here, I just like to point out two.
Design of the throttles - we do not like the small buttons on the DT 400 and we do not like the turn knobs for the address selection on the UT4's. Hard to see for "old" folks.
But even more annoying is are the "ghost's" we have with Digitrax. Trains beginning to move unexpected, losing train control on the UT4's etc. This might be unique to our system configuration because we use train controller for turnout and block control on touch screens but when we hook up my Lenz system or the the NCE system from a club member everything works flawless.This post means not that Digitrax is a bad system, it just don't work for us.
Markus
Thanks for chiming back in, Roy-el. And I'm sorry for starting things out on somewhat of a sour note with your initial post.
Do you have an LHS (local hobby store) in your area that you can visit that sells DCC systems? Even the ability to hold and try out a system to see if it's intuitive to you will go a long way in helping you narrow your choices.
Each system has its pluses and minuses and what may be intuitive to me may feel awkward to you. It's also true that intuition can come with familiarity and each system has its own learning curve.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Roy-el, maybe an explanation will help to mollify you. While we may have come across as less-than-friendly, the fact is that a couple of us were moderators a few years back, and we endured a couple of nasty trolls who would post the usually 'effective' bomb-like questions designed to incite a flame-fest of argumentation. Ford vs. GM type of debates, except they were often about which brand of locomotive or power control system was best. They soon were more than civil debates, to the delight of the trolls, and to the great chagrin of the moderators who were skewered for skewering the 'debates' after three or four pages of vituperation. The usual pattern was a single post that was either a question or a simple statement and then the person would not be heard from again, even when some posters asked clarifying questions and meant well. IOW, we have become a little jaded, and Simon and others were beginning to wonder, out loud, if this was just an overdue repetition. No slight or harm intended, just cynicism, and we all surely regret our cycnism if it was not due you. Sorry.
Crandell
Do you guys have any opinions on the MRC Prodigy Advance2 or Wireless? Do any of the other units you are talking about have the Recall function like the MRC does?
Pirate,
Both the NCE PH Pro and Power Cab throttles have a recall button. The newer (v1.65) Power Cabs can be programmed to toggle between 2 and 6 locomotive addresses in the recall stack. I don't like to do a lot of toggling between addresses so I have my recall stack set at "3".
Most systems have the equivalent of a recall. Digitrax for example is configurable to 4, 8, or 16. I don't use it. here's why: it's MORE button presses to scroll through a large recall stack than it is just select a loco address.
Great, so you have a 32 loco recall stack. So you press the Recall button, and then another button to flip through the locos in the recall stack. Up to 31 button presses to get to the last one, plus the select or enter button to reactivate it.
The longest address would have 4 digits in it. So that means a maximum of 6 button presses on any system to select ANY loco, not just the last few that were used. Select - up to 4 numbers - and enter.
One more overblown bit of hype from MRC. Besides their ridiculous ads, the real reason I don't like MRC systems is that unlike every other major brand on the market, they do not and will not work with JMRI.
pirate Do you guys have any opinions on the MRC Prodigy Advance2 or Wireless? Do any of the other units you are talking about have the Recall function like the MRC does?
Decent system. IMO the simplest to use of the walk around throttles by a hair. However, also IMO if you are not up and running on any of the systems within 30 min there is something wrong.
A few negative points also.
1. Does not support JMRI Decoder Pro, a deal killer for me.
2. Made in China compared to Digitrax and NCE made in the US. This matters to me.
3. Not convinced of MRC's commitment to DCC products and support, largely based on their spotty history in DCC. I like to trust my DCC manufacturer and I very much trust Digitrax, with whom I am very satisfied.
These are very much personal preferences and my concerns about MRC may be completely irrelevant to you. I know one MRC user personally and he loves his system and has had no issues at all with it. It is simple to use and had proven to be reliable and somewhat expandable. Most other MRC users are happy also.
I agree with Randy on the recall stack. 6 button presses and I can recall any loco on my roster. Far more useful to me is the dual throttle knobs of the DT40X series of Digitrax throttle. Having 2 locos selected on the throttle at the same time with direct control of both is great.
simon1966I agree with Randy on the recall stack. 6 button presses and I can recall any loco on my roster.
In general I agree that it is normally easier to key in the loco number that flip through a stack of loco numbers to dig out the one you want. However, there is always an exception.
At our club we have a narrow gage section that consists of two overlapping loops. We generally run the trains around these loops to make noise and keep some of the open house guests occupied when there is a problem stopping movement on the rest of the railroad. I operate this from a single position. With the available sidings, I'm able to set up four trains but can't see them to read the loco numbers if they stop with the engine at a distance. However, since I set up the trains I do know what all the loco or consist numbers are. It is far easier to scroll through the stack to find what I'm looking for.
Large recall stacks can be a pain. The Lenz system can be configured from 2 to 12. Each individual throttle can be configured like this. So one throttle can have 2 another can have 6 and so on. Another plus about the Lenz system is the configuration of the function buttons. They can be configured to latch on or momentary for the particular address that is selected. For an example loco 1234 has an auxiliary whistle on function 3. and loco 5678 has warning beacon on function 3. You can set the number 3 function button as a momentary for loco 1234 for the whistle toot. Then when loco 5678 is selected function 3 can be set for latch on for something like a warning beacon. This configuration set up is remembered in the command station and not the throttles. So if you take your throttle and loco 1234 to another Lenz powered layout you will have to configure the function button again. When you return to the first Lenz system it will already be configured.
One glitch I have found with my friends Digitrax is the long short addresses. If you locos address is 2 you have to select 0002. If I enter address 02 the throttle has 0200 for some reason. On the Lenz and NCE all you have to do is enter 2 and its done. This could be because I am not used to the Digitrax system.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Hmm, haven't noticed that, but the only time I have a short address is when the decoder is still at default. But I'm pretty sure all I do is hit Loco, 3, Enter and it selects 3, not 3000.
On a UT4 you have to put it in as 0002 because you have to pick some number on each of the 4 address dials, no way around that one.
On NCE you have to put it as 002 if it's really short address 2, because NCE can use 2 as a long address, or 002 as a short address. Long address 002 on NCE won;t run an any other system, they seem to be the only one who took that definition of the NMRA specs.
That's something I think they missed the boat on, the way the definition is written, Digitrax follows it, NCE follow it, and Lenz follows it, even though it is possible to have locos that won't work across all 3 systems. Short address 123 will work on NCE and Digitrax, but not Lenz. Long address 45 will work on NCE but not Lenz and Digitrax, long address 101 will work on NCE and Lenz but not Digitrax.
My wife got me my first DCC engine for Christmas (Bachmann 2-6-0 with sound). I do not have a DCC system yet but I am leaning toward the NCE. Made in the USA is important to me and seeing that the 2 of the top ones are made in the USA is comforting.
I currently have a 12X26 foot room reserved for trains. I plan to start small but will fill the room eventually so the add ons are also important. It will most likely be a shelf layout. Thanks for the wealth of information....
With my DT402D I just press 2 and then the loco button. No need for any zero's. Same is true of my Dt400R's.
THERE IS THE UPPER LIMIT OF 9983 WITH Digitrax throttles. That's a limit of the throttles. Digitrax command stations will program and operate up to 10239 but JMRI is needed to do it. Not sure if the other systems have the same capability.
Martin Myers
Durango360 I currently have a 12X26 foot room reserved for trains. I plan to start small but will fill the room eventually so the add ons are also important. It will most likely be a shelf layout. Thanks for the wealth of information....
A shelf layout implies a possible desire to follow the trains around the layout? The NCE Power Cab would be a good choice, but make sure that you are happy with the tether length and if this will limit you in anyway. You can't unplug the Power Cab without the layout shutting down as the power booster is actually in the throttle. So choose a central location for the panel and see if you can reach where you want to go?
Also think about how many throttles you might want on your layout. Will you be a lone operator or will you have guests? If so, how many? Would you prefer a wireless configuration? The Power Cab, whilst excellent has some limits and not every one can achieve what they want with the system without some significant extras. This can add up quickly, so you might be better off with a higher end starter system?
simon1966 A shelf layout implies a possible desire to follow the trains around the layout? The NCE Power Cab would be a good choice, but make sure that you are happy with the tether length and if this will limit you in anyway. You can't unplug the Power Cab without the layout shutting down as the power booster is actually in the throttle. So choose a central location for the panel and see if you can reach where you want to go? Also think about how many throttles you might want on your layout. Will you be a lone operator or will you have guests? If so, how many? Would you prefer a wireless configuration? The Power Cab, whilst excellent has some limits and not every one can achieve what they want with the system without some significant extras. This can add up quickly, so you might be better off with a higher end starter system?
Yes, you are correct in the ability to follow the trains. I was leaning toward the wireless due to the fact that I don't like to be tied down. I would perfer to spend a little more now than redo it all later. I can also see the need for a booster down the road. So you are right again :) I am looking at a higher end one. I am just digging up more info as I save $$ for the right system. The other thought was to get the PH-PRO 5 amp system for starters using the teathered throttle. As the railroad grew add a wireless throttle to follow the trains around the layout and keep the teathered throttle for the yard areas.
At the most I see 1 or two other people operating at the same time.
Thanks for the replies.
Randy.
This address issue may be that the gentleman has never upgraded the system since he has owned it for over 10 years or longer. Functions 0 through 9 is all you get. I believe when he bought it shortly after the advent of the long address. I do know that you do have to enter 0002. I haven't operated on it in about 7 or 8 months. He had some health issues and recuperation and has not set up any op sessions yet. My Power Cab all I have to do is 2 and the screen reeds 0002. The same for the clubs Lenz system.
rrinker You can still use a DT100. I have one I picked up cheap on eBay. It's great for running trains, as long as you don't need more than the first few functions, plus I have an annoying habit of trying to click the knob to change direction, which is something every newer throttle does. The DT400/402 is SO much easier to use though, it's probbaly worth it. If you've been using the system all along, it might not be a big deal since you'd be used to it by now, but if it's been stored for a long time, it's a night and day difference. If it's a Chief, it should be a DCS100. If it's the type with speaker clip wire terminals instead of screws, it might be so old that it has the older firmware that won;t do over F8, if so it will require a trip to Florida for upgrade. If it has screw terminlas then it should be fine, the firmware fix went into production before they switched to the screw terminals. Another alternative would be to get a Zephyr Xtra and use that as command station, and the old unit as a booster. That combo will run up to 20 locos and 20 throttles, if that will be enough to handle your layout. --Randy
Randy, thanks for the helpful feedback. My Chief system has been only run little and I had to tear down my layout in 2000/2001 when was separated. The base station is actually one of the first to ship with the newer style wire terminals with the screw terminals and it can be pulled out - it plugs into the circuit boards. It is a DSC100, I just pulled it out, the terminal strips are gray, yep screw type.
I have been hoping I could use the system with a couple of throttles added on. I bought the programming add on and a radio receiver (simplex). I figure on adding a DT400R and maybe a single big knob throttle - and the DT100 could still be used as an extra.
rrinker On NCE you have to put it as 002 if it's really short address 2, because NCE can use 2 as a long address, or 002 as a short address.
I may be incorrect, but I believe that you have this reversed. Unless we're talking something specifically related to address 2, with the NCE system you enter "2" if the short address is really "2". If that is supposed to be the long address, then you would enter it as "02" or "002" (not sure without looking up the instructions which would be correct, or if it matters).
AN answer to your question without raising the ire of those who are "Ford vs Chevy" guys is:
The easiest system to use and get your feet wet is the Bachmann EZ Command. {NOT the new Dynamis}
Though many here are looking at the other systems and fighting over them, it is the simplest and lowest cost to consider.
I actually have 2 of them one for my 3.5 x 5.1 layout where I run two trains, and one for the under-the-Christmas-tree layout which i Can run 2 on too.
It is only 2 digit labeling, but if you don't need to have 4 digit labeling {such as assigning the decoder the 3 or 4 digit number on the cab of the loco} then it is fine to use only the 2 digit.
If you have a 6 x 10 foot layout, and run two or three new DCC ON BOARD locos you will be fine with the EZC.
It is also one of the cheapest systems available.
It can even come with a loco to get you started! {though I am not sure if you are a steam or diesel guy}. Here is where you can get one:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=RGBVCW&ID=200401356
WIth loco:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=RGBVCW&ID=200401359
or steamer:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=RGBVCW&offset=25&ID=200429902
Here is a whole page of EZC stuff, including the 5 am booster if you want to expand it.
If you want to know how easy it is, here are some videos:
Bachmann E-Z Command Part 1 - YouTube
Bachmann E-Z Command part 2 - YouTube
E-Z Command Part 3 - YouTube
E-Z Commmand Part 4 - YouTube
BACHMANN E-Z COMMAND - CONTROLLING SOUNDS - YouTube
You can also find many many Bachmann DCC OnBOard locos on the site by clicking on the menu at Left and selecting which type of loco you Want: I have 14 Bachmann DCC oNBoard locos, both steam and diesel and am VERY HAPPY with them all. They work well and easy with the EZC. I don't mind assigning a 2 digit address, as I mark on the papers next to each # available which locos are assigned to which 2 digit #. the #10 spot is for running a DC ONLY loco if you desire, so I don't program any loco into it. I have assigned 2 locos to most 2 digit #, and even a paired F series A-B locos work well when assigned to the same number. As long as I don't run both locos on the same address, I am OK. If I DO run both, they will run together like my A-B set, so no biggie.
I hope this helps you.
FWIW whenever I get ready to "move up" in systems I will probably choose the DIgitrax Xtra, but I see no need to do so now, and they may have a different system I like then.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
galaxy ROY-EL AN answer to your question without raising the ire of those who are "Ford vs Chevy" guys is: The easiest system to use and get your feet wet is the Bachmann EZ Command. {NOT the new Dynamis}
Gee, I was wondering when the "Dodge" guys were gonna show up!
(Sorry Galaxy, I had to do it!!)
Roy El, it boils down to one thing. What works for you. Not only is it about your current and future needs, but what feels best in your hands. I would suggest 1 thing before you plunk down any money. Road test all the systems you may be considering. Seek out owners , your LHS may be able to help here, or a local club. Find your comfort zone with it, then go with what makes you the happiest.
Otherwise, you may find yourself buying a system that you either don't understand, don't like, or there is no one else local to you run with.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I've had an NCE PHPro for 12 years now and radio throttles about 6 years.. I got it right after the local club went with NCE. Just about everyone has NCE at home, and several of us travel to each others layouts, carrying our radio throttles from run session to run session. Nothing but fun!!
Karl
NCE über alles!
kbkchooch .. I got it right after the local club went with NCE. Just about everyone has NCE at home, and several of us travel to each others layouts, carrying our radio throttles from run session to run session. Nothing but fun!!
.. I got it right after the local club went with NCE. Just about everyone has NCE at home, and several of us travel to each others layouts, carrying our radio throttles from run session to run session. Nothing but fun!!
This is a good point. If you are a social person and want to interact with local clubs and other modellers it is a good idea to strongly consider what they are using. In our area it is Digitrax. There is a huge layout at the k-10 model trains (Do a Youtube search) where young kids are handed throttles and encouraged to have fun running trains. The Digitrax UT throttles are perfect for this as they have a nice simple to use knob and limited functions that can be messed with.
Durango360 Yes, you are correct in the ability to follow the trains. I was leaning toward the wireless due to the fact that I don't like to be tied down. I would perfer to spend a little more now than redo it all later. I can also see the need for a booster down the road. So you are right again :) I am looking at a higher end one. I am just digging up more info as I save $$ for the right system. The other thought was to get the PH-PRO 5 amp system for starters using the teathered throttle. As the railroad grew add a wireless throttle to follow the trains around the layout and keep the teathered throttle for the yard areas. At the most I see 1 or two other people operating at the same time. Thanks for the replies.
One of the nice things about both Digitrax and NCE entry level systems is that they can be upgraded with new/additional system components, and almost nothing wasted.
If you want to be able to unplug a throttle and plug it in somewhere else on the layout while the trains keep running, just purchase additional throttle(s) for the Power Cab (any NCE Cab will work) and UTP (plug-in) panels for different locations around the layout. Those throttle(s) (not the Power Cab) can be moved around while the Power Cab keeps the trains running.
You can also add radio throttles to a Power Cab. Just add the RB02 base and any NCE radio throttle.
There are numerous upgrade paths for the Power Cab all the way up to the PH Pro 5 and 10 amp systems, and the total cost is not much more than purchasing the full-up system to begin with. So you can start small, and protect your investment as you expand according to your needs. You don't have to know up front how much system you will ultimately need, just start small and add on as you go.
Plus, when you start with the Power Cab and upgrade to a bigger system, you still have that stand-alone Power Cab you can use with a test/programming track at your bench, while the "big" system is running trains on the layout.
Andy
Durango360 Plus, when you start with the Power Cab and upgrade to a bigger system, you still have that stand-alone Power Cab you can use with a test/programming track at your bench, while the "big" system is running trains on the layout. Andy
Actually, when added to a PH PRO, a powercab becomes a procab, and can jump from plug UTP to UTP just like its big brother!