tnhllblly06 Received the AR-1 today, and hooked it up. Success! Thanks to all for their thoughts and advice.
Received the AR-1 today, and hooked it up. Success! Thanks to all for their thoughts and advice.
Congrats!
Rich
Alton Junction
Texas Zepher richhotrain Here is the OP's track diagram. ...picture omitted... This is a classic reverse loop where the track folds back onto itself.I guess many of us figured that when the OP stated the problem section was running diagonal. What happened to or OP anyway? Has this problem been solved.
richhotrain Here is the OP's track diagram. ...picture omitted... This is a classic reverse loop where the track folds back onto itself.
Here is the OP's track diagram.
...picture omitted...
Hi TZ.
Yeah, the problem has been solved and the OP has ordered a DIgitrax AR-1. Once he mailed the track diagram off line to me, we exchanged emails discussing the problem and resolved it in that manner. With the OP's permission, I posted the track diagram for others to see.
He might be indicating to make the reversing section the yard. The polarity would be reversed as the loco hit the switch. I was confused at first also, but although i would wire the main, Lions suggestion would work
LION, that is the problem.
Without the gaps that you mentioned, the loco will cause a short as it completes the loop due to reverse polarity.
richhotrain Here is the OP's track diagram. This is a classic reverse loop where the track folds back onto itself. That divergent leg of the right hand turnout is the trouble spot where there is a reverse polarity issue.
OK what we are looking at is a layout, but where is the problem. The problem is not really in the loop, as that is actually the main line. Apply you main power to the loop and not to the yard on the left.
You make your gaps on all four rails to the right of that switch. Allow the position of the switch to select where that part of the railroad gets its power from.
It is really no different from my layout.
Click on it to enlarge it.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
A picture is worth a thousand words.
tnhllblly06 I just finished a rough (very rough) freehand sketch of the layout. Now that I put it down on paper, I think I can see a big problem, but I'm not sure about the solution. How do I go about emailing it to someone who can post it for me?
I just finished a rough (very rough) freehand sketch of the layout. Now that I put it down on paper, I think I can see a big problem, but I'm not sure about the solution. How do I go about emailing it to someone who can post it for me?
Check your Messages, I just sent you my email address.
If you can get it in the computer to email, just go to Photobucket and sign up for a free account and upload it there. Or send it to me, I can put it in my account.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Like most shorts and reverse polarity problems, they could be quickly identified and resolved if a track diagram would be provided.
Could the OP follow the inside rail, the one that shows the short, around the layout and see if, after going around the layout, that the rail he follows ends up on the inside at the point he started. I would also follow any divergent tracks coming off the inside rail and see where that leads. If everything ends up at the inside rail no reversing section exists, if not then a reversing section exists. this may be a little time consuming but without a picture of the track plan we really don't know what may be happening.
maxman Not necessarily a reversing section, although that could be a possibility. Is this a simple passing siding? What type/brand of turnouts are you using?
Not necessarily a reversing section, although that could be a possibility. Is this a simple passing siding? What type/brand of turnouts are you using?
The OP mentioned earlier that he uses Atlas turnouts on the layout and they are not power routing.
tnhllblly06 Rich, You are right on the money! When I disconnected the rail joiners fron the other end of this section (from a turnout), no short. This morning I scraped up all the track, reconnecting and resoldering as I went. The minute I connected to the other end, a short ensued. Does that mean this is some sort of reversing section? Like I stated previously, it's a long section of track (approx. 20 feet) between two turnouts.
Rich,
You are right on the money! When I disconnected the rail joiners fron the other end of this section (from a turnout), no short. This morning I scraped up all the track, reconnecting and resoldering as I went. The minute I connected to the other end, a short ensued. Does that mean this is some sort of reversing section? Like I stated previously, it's a long section of track (approx. 20 feet) between two turnouts.
That would be my guess. It is probably a reversing section.
Any chance that you could email a track diagram that I could post?
An interesting question would be what happens if you disconnect the rail joiners at the opposite end of the track that is shorting after you place feeders on the other end of that track.
I suspect the answer is that there is no longer a short.
I was going to ask if a loco would run on the section before the rails were connected, but then I saw the post where the OP said it also shorts when the feeder is connected not the rails. That is the thing that confuses me. Usually the feeders won't short unless the rails are already connected.
Also the later note that says this is not the first feeder in the section but about the 5th, that really makes me think something obvious is being assumed, overlooked, or at least not being stated in the messages.
My guess is that there was/is an unknown/forgotten insulated rail joiner or a gap that has been crossed at that particular point in the layout.
MisterBeasley I had an intermittent short that was driving me crazy. I eventually traced the problem to an Atlas 30-degree crossing. It was shorted internally, and would short the layout when an engine passed over it a certain way. It's not a likely scenario, but it's a possibility.
I had an intermittent short that was driving me crazy. I eventually traced the problem to an Atlas 30-degree crossing. It was shorted internally, and would short the layout when an engine passed over it a certain way.
It's not a likely scenario, but it's a possibility.
I think that, at this point, anything is a possibility.
That's why a track plan would be helpful as well as knowing which track the OP is connecting the feeder wires to that is causing a short - - - a turnout, a specialty track such as a wye or slip, or simply a section of flex track.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Another thing that I will mention is that even on very large layouts, where the common recommendation is to drop tons of feeder wires and even solder the connections, it has been my experience that just a few sets of feeder wires will carry power throughout large parts of the layout. The electrical connectivity is usually interrupted only by turnouts and other such specialty track pieces like wyes and slips.
So, when you suddenly encounter a short, it is the result of reverse polarity for whatever the reason.
tnhllblly06 One last thing, Rich. I do have other parts of the layout wired, without running into any problems. The section that I am having trouble with splits off of the main line and reconnects with it further down the line. I was able to wire approximately one half of it before I ran into this problem. I do have a few feeder wires soldered past the point where it reconnects, but I don't understand how I was able to solder 4-5 sets of feeders on this particular section without a problem, before I hit this spot. Like I said, I'll go out there today and recheck everything, and hopefully I'll still have these last few remaining hairs on my head when I come in! Thanks to all for the thoughts so far.
One last thing, Rich. I do have other parts of the layout wired, without running into any problems. The section that I am having trouble with splits off of the main line and reconnects with it further down the line. I was able to wire approximately one half of it before I ran into this problem. I do have a few feeder wires soldered past the point where it reconnects, but I don't understand how I was able to solder 4-5 sets of feeders on this particular section without a problem, before I hit this spot. Like I said, I'll go out there today and recheck everything, and hopefully I'll still have these last few remaining hairs on my head when I come in! Thanks to all for the thoughts so far.
I think that we are right back to our original suspicions, either a reversing section that is not obvious to you or feeder wires inadvertently crossed over to the wrong rails.
Do you have a track plan that can be emailed so that we can post it?
Atlas turnouts are not power routing.
You mentioned that you replaced the section of track where the short occurred and the same thing happened all over again.
Just out of curiosity, what section of track caused the short? Turnout? Flex track?
Are you simply wiring as you move down the layout or are you wiring different sections on the layout in no particular order?
All the turnouts on the layout are made by Atlas. I don't believe that I need to do anything special with them, but I'm not sure. My feeder wires are red (outside rail) and black (inside rail). Red wire to the outside rail, no problem. Either wire touched to the inside rail causes a short. Black wire to outside rail....short. I am going to go out there today and look at everything again. I'll also try and figure out how to put a diagram of the layout up here. I know that would be more of a help than my attempts at explaining what it looks like. Thanks for the thoughts.
MisterBeasley What kind of turnouts are you using? You may have a problem with certain power-routing turnouts if they are not isolated past the frog.
What kind of turnouts are you using? You may have a problem with certain power-routing turnouts if they are not isolated past the frog.
That raises another good question.
Is the OP wiring sequentially, section by section, as he moves around the layout? Or, are different parts of the layout already wired as the OP adds feeder wires in between previously wired sections of the layout?
In his initial post, he mentioned he "disconnected all the wires on the other side of the layout from the short".