IGN,
I Started with the EZ Command. I like it. Simple, inexpensive. I also purchased the additional Walk around Companion, and 4 connector panels. I had no less than 3 sound engines on the sidings, and operated two sound engines on the railroad. Very Happy.
Good points........Inexpensive, super easy to use, fast set up (with EZ track), dependable. Has the basic features that most of us need (bell, horn, lights etc...) It is a well known system. Because it is very well known, if you ever decide to get one of the fancier systems, EZ is very easy to sell on the secondary market (eBay) as long as you keep all original packaging, paper work etc...
Bad points........uh, it did everything I wanted so the only thing I could think of is that you needed two hands most of the time to operate it.
Hope this helps.
David
When I converted to DCC a few years ago I did some research on the various systems. There was an article in MR that reviewed most of the major systems - and if someone remembers the exact magazine that would be helpful. I decided on Digitrax and bought the Super Chief system - it's been great. It may be more than what you are planning, but it is a step up from the Zephyr. I went that route because I knew I was going to expand and waned a system that would handle everything I had on the drawing board.
If you can find places that use the Bachmann, MRC, Digitrax or any of the other systems, you might be able to go to ask questions and maybe even operate one of them. Most of the current all have the same operating characteristics, but you might find that you prefer one over the other after trying them out.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
I started off with the Zephyr, the version previous to the one that is now on themarket, and I really liked everything about it, except the fact that it was sationary. I have changed to the NCE PowerCab for the walk around capability. I also think that the NCE system is a little more intuitive than the Zephyr. Flip a coin and take your pick.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I have the Bachmann system and I paid (I think)$60 for it was a few years back. I sprung another $20 or so for a walk around thottle which i find useful as a second thottle on the other end of my layout. However as my roster has grown I will be replacing the EZ Command with NCE.
Joe Staten Island West
I am a bit of a lone wolf myself. I operate 3 - 4 consists at a time. Purchased a Zephyr to operate , works fine. I also just purchased a used DB150 to operate my yard when and if I have friends over. But, most of the time 3 amps is enough for me. Good luck.
A old timer once told me if you like and it pleases you and your completely satisfied then by all means be happy.
NickyB
One thing to keep in mind is that some DCC systems will allow you to run a DC locomotive.
You have to be careful when doing this. As long as you are running the engine all is fine, the problem is if you let the engine idle for awhile without actually running it, the engine can overheat.
I have a number of older brass engines that I occasionally like to run. Only a few of these have been converted to DCC and DCC with sound. I like the option of running any of my old brass engines whenever I want and I know I will never upgrade them all with DCC so I needed a system that could run both. I know a lot of users are very wary about mixing the two, but I have been mixing the two for a few years and have never ruined any locomotive. I wired electrical cut offs to the area where the brass engines are kept so when not in use there is no power to them.
The EZ Command and Digitrax Zepher will allow you to run both DCC and DC. MRC units do not, I am not sure about Lenz.
When I bought my EZ command I think it was $90 and came with a DCC On-Board GP-38. I also picked up the walk around thottle for like $30 at a train show. Both have served me well on my 6 x 6 layout where I only run 2 or 3 trains at a time. Fine for a beginner.
After doing some reading next year when I rebuild my layout I have decided to go with NCE because I liked their manuals, like having a walk around thottle and I know they are made right here in New York.
Keep in mind the Tech 6 also has programing capability to change CV"S. I don't think the Bachmann basic system does.
Bob
I want to thank everyone for their input. Still not sure which system.
If it comes down to pure money Bachmann may be what I use. But not if I can help it.
'Seeing what sound does for a model is impressive.
Many Thx IGN
simon1966 Indeed Fred but with a list price of $279 and an already discounted street price of $180 it is not the $90 system that was being suggested. At that price you can get a proper DCC system.
Indeed Fred but with a list price of $279 and an already discounted street price of $180 it is not the $90 system that was being suggested. At that price you can get a proper DCC system.
I didn't say it well enough the first go-around. Even the lesser and cheaper versions of the Tech 6 that only use DCC address 3 work surprising well for a DC layout whose owner has just bought a couple of newer sound-equipped locomotives. I wouldn't of thunk it until I watched these guys.
There are a number of such model railroaders in my area. They own some fine running brass steamers that work well on their DC layouts. Then they buy a Blackstone or two (or other sound locomotives in standard gauge) and they want to enjoy the sounds they paid for. Even though I advocated against the purchase, they love the MRC Tech 6 (any version) as a no-brain addition to obtain the results they want. With DC operation, they are used to "parking" a locomotive and shutting off the power to the track it's on. Turn on the track with the next locomotive, and away you go. Use DC mode for the brass, and DCC mode for the sound locomotives. No need to learn new operational concepts or change procedures.
Now - does the OP fit this scenario for which the Black Box/Tech 6 was designed? If not, it's probably not for him. Those who are not used to DC operations probably won't be happy with the one locomotive at a time scenario.
Yes, you can buy a starter DCC system for close to the same price. Which is what I usually advocate. But after watching how these guys operate, I'm not so sure the Tech 6 isn't the better solution for them. Same throttle regardless of mode, and just keep operating as they did before. The MRC name still has cachet among non-DCC folks.
just my thoughts and experiences, your choices
Fred W
fwright Not quite correct. There are different versions of the Tech 6. The 2.0 version of the Tech 6 has the address limitation you describe. The Tech 6 6.0 can run 6 DCC locomotives simultaneously, as well as providing a very nice DC mode throttle for analog DC locos. Fred W
Not quite correct. There are different versions of the Tech 6. The 2.0 version of the Tech 6 has the address limitation you describe. The Tech 6 6.0 can run 6 DCC locomotives simultaneously, as well as providing a very nice DC mode throttle for analog DC locos.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Yup Bachmann like tstage said don't pay no more than 50-70 dollars, when I bought mine in 2005 on eBay I paid about $55.00 but I got a Bachmann GP38 DCC with it. If you shop around you can still find them.
Don't let the 1 amp only 2-3 loco's bother you thinking you can run more with a basic NCE (2or3) or Digitraz Zephyr xtra (20 with, 3amp) starter system, Digitrax system allows extra throttles by using your dc power pacs, that's all their entry level systems allow. Like I said in my previous post I ran 4 DCC loco's with no problem with 1amp and I'm sure NCE or Digitrax probably run more than the limit they suggest, but I don't know that for certain. The upside of NCE, Digitrax, Lenz etc, is that you can expand them much easier and less costly than Bachmann, the only upgrading I did was adding the 5 amp booster, but that's it. Bachmann walk around companions are way too much money for others to run trains with you as compared to any other DCC system and programming cv's, 2 or 4 digit addressing, advanced consisting with Bachmann is out of the realm. I do consist again on 6 of my nine address slots, and yes I can have more than 2 loco's in a consist and turned back to back, front to back or any position for the loco's in the consist. But I have to run loco's the old dc way to determine the speed match still using DCC though.
The other system are cheaper to upgrade where Bachmann EZ Command is not upgradable at all.
Nobody mentioned Bachmann Dynamis entry level system at about $115.00 and that's infra red not wired. But I won't go into that because like Digitrax, NCE, or any other system I have no hands on knowledge of any thing other than Bachmann EZ Command, only know what I have read in the last 7 years! Simple buy something you can upgrade without limit! Jim
simon1966 MRC Tech 6, the DCC system that isn't! Using "Black Box Technology" the MRC Tech 6 can control a single DCC equipped loco on address 03 only. This is a fairly significant shortcoming as it means that you have to park on unpowered spurs or remove other DCC locos from the track as they would all run at the same time. This shortcoming manages to remove one of the main advantages of DCC, the ability to have independent control of more than one locomotive. Or even to stop one loco, and select another and run it without having to park the first in an unpowered siding or remove it from the layout.
MRC Tech 6, the DCC system that isn't! Using "Black Box Technology" the MRC Tech 6 can control a single DCC equipped loco on address 03 only. This is a fairly significant shortcoming as it means that you have to park on unpowered spurs or remove other DCC locos from the track as they would all run at the same time. This shortcoming manages to remove one of the main advantages of DCC, the ability to have independent control of more than one locomotive. Or even to stop one loco, and select another and run it without having to park the first in an unpowered siding or remove it from the layout.
Also realize that the Tech 6 series is aimed at somebody who has already wired their layout for DC block control, and wants to use DC control on a regular basis. They will already have sidings and spurs that can be turned off when a locomotive is not in use. So the number of DCC locomotives that can be addressed simultaneously is not the issue it is on a pure DCC layout.
This is not to say I recommend the Tech 6 over a NCE PowerCab or similar DCC system. But the 6.0 version of the Tech 6 does have features that PowerCab and Zephyr do not. For someone who has a layout wired for DC, and only some of his locomotives are DCC-equipped, the Tech 6 6.0 could make a lot of ease-of-use sense. Some of my friends are very happy with their Tech 6 systems, as it performs very well in their mixed mode operations scenarios (typically brass or older engines that will not be converted for years).
my thoughts, your choices
I totally agree with Simon. However, I wouldn't pay more than $50 for a Bachmann E-Z Command. It's a very basic 1-amp DCC system with no frills. It will run 2-3 locomotives though.
I still see some E-Z Commands going for full (or near full) MSRP pricing on places like eBay. If you are going to spend $100 for one, you might as well cough up another $50 or so and get a much more robust and more expandable DCC system from Digitrax or NCE.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
For console based DCC systems, the Zephyr would be the most comprehensive system. The Bachmann the more basic route to go. Frankly, if you shop around for a Bachmann you can get them fairly cheap. Its not worth full retail, but at $50-$70 not bad. If you grow out of it, sell it on eBay and get back most of your money. Alternatively bite the bullet and start with a more expandable system.
Have you looked at the MRC Tech 6. It is basic and can be had for less than $90.00.
A lot of people don't like Bachmann EZ Command. I came back to this hobby 7 years ago when I retired. I did a lot of reading and research on this site and many others and a lot of searches on the internet. The bickering and troubles back then still goes on! I bought the Bachmann EZ Command and still use it, I will be upgrading soon to a different system. I ran 4 DCC loco's on my 6' X 11' layout I had at the time with the 1 amp power supply. If I ran a sound loco I could run that and 2 other DCC loco's at the same time. Reason I chose Bachmann EZ Command is this, I just wanted to put my trains on the track and run them using the most uncomplicated DCC system I could find, didn't want to know anything about all this program stuff with CV's and confusion and bickering. And I didn't even know what decoder I had in the Loco's that came with DCC installed and didn't care either, I just simply wanted to run trains. Interface what for, unless you plan on running your train layout using a computer and if that's what the plan is, why on earth bother buying a complete Digitrax or NCE system and wasting $600.00. Jump right into PR3/JMRI. I do, by the way, have this to program my sound decoders and to program CV's.
I added on to my layout it's now 11' X17' with a 2 line subway under it and all the way around. I bought the Bachmann 5 amp booster 4 or so years ago, a little pricey at $180.00 on eBay. Glad I got it by the way! It has a cooling fan and passe's the quarter test no matter where I short out the track even 70' away on the subway tracks. I've read of lesser expensive boosters overheating, mine hasn't overheated or shutdown running 6 trains with 2 loco consists and some with sound. So I can't use 4 digit address, I can't remember the 4 digit road numbers for all my DCC loco's anyhow. I own 38 DCC loco's. 16 have sound! Hey I know train #1 is on A track, train #2 is on B track and so on. I have 9 slots for DCC trains, not just loco's. Since I have 2 loco consists I've only used 6 slots or 12 loco's, I still have 3 slots left. Normally I run 3-4 trains that's enough for me to handle.
I know I miss out of a lot of stuff using EZ Command but you know what it doesn't owe me anything after 7 years I could give it away with the booster for the trouble free hundred's of hours I've used it, penny's a day. Ok so all the sounds I can't use because of the limit of only 10 buttons. But all I use is the bell, horn and the light functions. I have installed decoders for ditch lights and other light functions. The rest of the sounds are default from start up to running to shutting down as we all know. Even the brakes squeal when I slow down to a stop and the wheels screech as though the flanges on the wheels were rubbing the rails and also the steam and pump sounds all on their own by default.
Now if I had known I was going to stay with DCC, maybe I would have bought a better expandable system, but NCE and Digitrax users were also having problems with runaway trains, buttons that didn't work on certain throttles, little annoying things I didn't want the frustration of putting up with at that time. And again I wasn't sure if this whole idea wasn't just a PITA and I would just go back to DC analog if I had any trouble along the way. Bachmann EZ Command has worked flawless for me.
My recommendation would be if you want to and know you will be expanding from something more than a 4x8 layout or a simple shelf unit buy something that's expandable. I plan on NCE Power Pro since I want to run more than 2 trains as with an entry level system I need more than that. same as if I were to upgrade to Digitrax it wouldn't be an entry level system I'd want to go all out so I can run my 6 trains. I plan on spending just under $600 to be able to do what I do now but with the goodies I don't have at the present time. Like programming on the main in opps mode and advanced consisting which I keep reading about. Simply put some things I read about but don't have with Bachmann EZ Command. I know nothing about these systems except for what I have read. There is no LHS or Club within 200 miles round trip where I live.
Sorry for the long post, Jim
I have an NCE PowerCab and it is truly "Simple" to operate. I don't have a computer interface (yet anyhow) and I don't even have a layout - just a test track. Recently I ran into a problem with an AB consist where the A engine would creep along very slowly at speed level 1 but the B unit wouldn't budge until level 8 on the original factory settings. I think the B unit needs some run time or it may have some binding in the drive system but none the less adjusting the B unit was easy with the PowerCab, and now they are speed matched quite nicely.
I have no experience with any other systems. I dismissed Digitrax from the very beginning simply because the throttles have too many buttons that all look the same, and because I ain't no guitar player that seemed like a recipe for frustration.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
There's three original Zephyrs on right now, one is at $53 with 8 bods, another is at $130 with no bids, and the third is at $87 with a coupel of bids.
Search Digitrax Zephyr from the main page then narrow it down by selecting model railroad/trains and then DCC systems and accessories.
I'd post the auction links but I think that's treading a fine line with the rules here even though they aren't my auctions and I don' know any of the sellers from Adam.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm not obsessing about amperage. More curious.
Also looking thru E Bay and other sites I did not see any used systems for sale. Am I looking in the wrong place or is everyone keeping their systems?
Thx IGN
DOn;t be obsessed with amp capacity. First, it's like horsepower in a car, while 600HP really gets you moving, you can cruise all day well over the legal limit with 100HP. Second, the current draw of modern locos, even with sound, is quite low.
I started with the original Digitrax Zephyr, 2.5 amps (vs the current Zephyr Xtra which has 3 amps). I was able to run 8 locos at one time (and it still wasn't overloaded, I just didn;t have a big enough layout to keep them all going and not crash). 4 were sound locos, 4 did not have sound, just motor decoders. HO, btw. Unless you plan a really big layout nad having lots of friends over to run trains all at the same time you don;t need 8 amps, or 10 amps. Unless you are in O or G scale. I still use the Zephyr as my command station, despite the limit of 12 locos at a time - assuming sufficient current. The number is how many you cna run AT ONE TIME, it does not mean how many you cna have - O own a lot more than 12 locos with decoders in them. My 10x15 room layout does nto have enough track to run 12 trains at the same time. Even with friends over to operate, I won;t ever have more than 3 or 4 going. I'm not even nearly the biggest layotu that runs with a Zephyr, others have even larger physical layout than I do and run them with the Zephyr. In fact that might be a cheaper way to start with a full featured system ('starter' isn't really the right word for it, since the Zephyr has nearly all the features of the top of the line Super CHief set - missing really just the fast clock and routes). If you check eBay you night find an original Zephyr or two going for well below the original MSRP. It was still a current model adn I got mine for $150, you can also find the Zephyr Xtra for around $160 if you are patient.
I would go with either the NCE Power Cab, or the Digitrax Zephyr. Both should be able to easilly handle what you need, and are expandable in many ways.
NS 5050: Southern Style on NS H76.
In the interest of full disclosure, I personally have a Lenz System 100. I have been very happy with it for years. I would not buy their System 90, because the analog dial throttle is very clumsy, but the digital throttle on the 100 is excellent. And, as I alluded to before, it has nice big buttons.
I have a Digitrax PR-2, the predecessor to their current PR-3. These are computer interfaces that can be used to connect to the aforementioned JMRI computer software. The PR units can also download sound packages to Digitrax SFX decoders. All sound downloaders, unfortunately, are proprietary and only work with their own brand of sound decoders, but the PR units can at least deal with all the other aspects of programming any decoder.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
One month ago I had the same questions you are asking now (read Going to DCC on 03/22/2012). In fact I was asking the same questions for quite a time then. Small layout, 2 loco at a time max, solo operation, I could have stayed with DC. Going to DCC with a NCE PowerCab was what I needed to fully appreciate the hobby. I now run trains not electrical blocks.
I can't talk about the other systems because i don't know them first hand, but the PowerCab seems to me to be a good starting point. SIMPLE, Expandable and the 7 feet long cable should be right for the layouts your are planning (it will be a nice to be able to follow your trains from one end of the shelf to the other end).
I will convert my locomotives roster (actually 13) one loco at a time and I am considering adding sound to some of them. A whole new world for me. The only thing I regret is that I sticked to DC for too long.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
jrbernier Here is my take on DCC 'Starter Systems': Bachmann - Has a limit of 10 addresses it will talk to(0-9 IIRC) - You cannot select number 4449 for example. It has a 1 amp power supply with the base unit. Unless you got it in a package 'deal' - I would stay away from it. IT has no computer interface that I am aware of. Digitrax - The Zephyr Xtra will run you under $200(discounted price). This is a full featured starter set that can be expanded. It has a 3 amp capacity and a built-in throttle on the case. This has a computer interface to the LocoNet via a USB device. NCE - Power Cab is their base system, and runs around $150 discounted. It has a 1.7 amp capacity in the base unit, and the Throttle is a walk-around type. You can buy a computer USB interface for this system. The system is fully expandable. MRC - Prodigy Express is their starter system(under $150 as well). The upgrade path is quite expensive, and the MRC computer interface will only work with their software. As you may have noticed, I have made a big point about a computer interface. JMRI puts out Decoder Pro software(free) that can be used to program your engines and save that configuration to your home computer. T%his may sound like 'Geek Stuff', but after spending several hours tuning/adjusting the sounds/speed tables/etc - You do not want to lose that information. And if you have a decoder 'fry' you can simply download the configuration into the replacement decoder. Jim
Here is my take on DCC 'Starter Systems':
As you may have noticed, I have made a big point about a computer interface. JMRI puts out Decoder Pro software(free) that can be used to program your engines and save that configuration to your home computer. T%his may sound like 'Geek Stuff', but after spending several hours tuning/adjusting the sounds/speed tables/etc - You do not want to lose that information. And if you have a decoder 'fry' you can simply download the configuration into the replacement decoder.
Jim
By the by how much current can MRC's Prodigy Express put out?
I have been on the road for many years with a little bit of money to waste. Amazing all the things one can find in hobby shops all across the country. Just a partial list of hobby shop locations : Tukwilla, Wa, Sacramento, Ca , Culver City, Ca, Santa Ana, Ca, Salt Lake City, Ut, Denver, Co, Addison, Tx, Des Plaines, Il, Indianapolis, In, Spring, Tx, Memphis, Tn, Riverdale, Ga, Duluth, Ga, W Columbia, SC, N Charleston, SC, W Milford, NJ, Brooklyn, NY, NY,NY, 2 in Ma(forgot the town names). 2 in the Toronto, On.
Now I am going to have some time on my hands to build something at the house. And a lot of time to run stuff.
Everyone has good points and has given good advice.
Also think about re-sale value if you are not sure you will stay with DCC. NCE and Digitrax will re-sell better than any other used systems.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
As you may have noticed, I have made a big point about a computer interface. JMRI puts out Decoder Pro software(free) that can be used to program your engines and save that configuration to your home computer. This may sound like 'Geek Stuff', but after spending several hours tuning/adjusting the sounds/speed tables/etc - You do not want to lose that information. And if you have a decoder 'fry' you can simply download the configuration into the replacement decoder.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I have a Zephyr and DCS200 with different throttles. I like the Digitrax system due to it's loconet, expansion and ease of use. At some point with sound decoders you may find it good to use Decoder Pro for programming. Since this will tie in your PC to your layout, understanding how this works with a particular system may be good to determine. I use a Locobuffer USB btw, not the Digitrax product for interface.
Richard