Hi Folks,
I’m constantly amazed and sometimes perplexed at the vast array of technological advances and gizmos hitting the mainstream market today. And, it seems that this great hobby hasn’t escaped that technological surge either, with amazingly detailed advances on its own accord.
Being fairly new to the hobby, I thought that I would ‘pick the brains’ of the more seasoned veterans of the hobby in helping me to make some decisions on a new DCC starter system – something that I have no experience with (but am looking forward to).
I’m at that point where my tracklaying is now complete, and I am currently preparing myself to launch into the part of the hobby that used to intimidate me the most – the wiring! After careful reading, comparisons, research, and trying out some different DCC starter systems at the various local shows and meets, I have decided on the NCE DCC PH-Pro 5 Amp System for all of the many reasons that it appealed to me. My question is whether I should go with the wireless system or the conventional system.
My HO scale layout is roughly 38’ x 12’ in size, and is located in the basement of our home. It contains two major yards and terminals for passenger traffic, and I have already established where my power districts will be. But yet again, the lingering question remains as to whether or not the NCE PH-Pro or the NCE PH-Pro-R is the right system for me. I’m hoping that some of you may be able to lend your opinions, thoughts, expertise, and experiences with either system (pros or cons) that may be able to assist in steering me to one over the other.
Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.
Chris
Chris - Welcome to Trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
My Blog
If you get the Pro without radio, you can always add it later if you want to. It really is a personal preference thing. Having a throttle you can carry around means that you can walk around with your trains. If you have radio you simply walk around and that is it. All you have to worry about is battery consumption and managing rechargeable batteries. If you have a tethered system you have to make sure you have positioned panels at strategic points and then unplug and replug as you move around. My personal preference is radio, but that choice is up to you.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
With the size of the layout, radio would probably be the better option. No cords to trip over and get tangled up in. With a smalelr layout where everything would be in reach of the length of the throttle cable, you could skip the wireless and add it later, but even a centrally located plug in panel would not allow you to reach your entire layotu without unplugging and plugging in elsewhere. Radio is more expensive, but more convenient. Alternately, if you hook a computer up tot he system, you can use JMRI (highly recommended) to not only program locos but also use things like the WiThrottle app (for iPod/iPhone/iPad) or ENgine Driver (for Android) to use a smartphone or tablet to control the layout wirelessly (through your wifi router).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Our club uses the 5 amp Power Pro but we wired in different places to plug in the cab and works quite well for us. We did not want to deal with issues that might pop up with wireless.
RIch
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I have the 5 amp Power Pro-R system at home. My layout is about 30'X30', and was designed so operators could esily follow their trains. Tethered cabs (like the NCE Cab 04) work fine for most jobs, but having radio capability is helpful for a couple of reasons - 1) every operator isn't concerned about finding an open plug, which makes life easier for the guys on tethered throttles, and 2) I have a few operators who liked the NCE system enough to buy their own cabs, and they preferred radio, so having radio on my layout allows them to use their radio cabs.
I did wire a throttle bus for the whole layout, so either a tethered or radio cab can be used anywhere. If the extra cost of the radio starter system is something you can absorb, I'd get that so the option is there for when you want it. You don't have to purchase any more radio cabs for the rest of the crew so you can save some money there initially, and NCE will upgrade the tethered cabs to radio later for the same cost as the differential between the two.
Rob Spangler
Chris,
I almost skipped this thread when I saw the title.
The NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system is hardly a starter system.
I have a 25' x 42' layout, and it is powered by the NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system. I started out with the sysyem 8 years ago, along with two tethered throttles and too many UTP panels and connecting cables to count. Just this past summer I upgraded to wireless and bought the base station and antenna and sent in both throttles to NCE for conversion.
Do yourself a favor and go with the wireless system from the outset. In the long run, it will be cheaper than the wired system. True, my initial purchase was less expensive than had I gone wireless from the outset. But, when I add up the cost of the numerous UTP panels and cables, plus the eventual cost of the base station and antenna, and the cost of conversion of the two throttles, I would have been better off going wireless from the outset.
Besides, you will get tired fast of moving along your layout, plugging and unplugging the throttle as you move along.
Rich
Alton Junction
Chris1 I’m at that point where my tracklaying is now complete, and I am currently preparing myself to launch into the part of the hobby that used to intimidate me the most – the wiring!
My question is whether I should go with the wireless system or the conventional system. To me the choice between wired and wireless is simple. Once one uses a wireless system going back to plugging and unplugging cords, hunting for a place to plug, tangling cords, tripping over other operators cords, and never having enough plugs in the right place ... just seems silly. If you can afford a wireless system just do it now.
My question is whether I should go with the wireless system or the conventional system.
The first upgrade I propose to most people's layouts is to go wireless.
Thanks for the welcome to the forum, and advice folks. It seems like my intial thoughts on the wireless may have been correct in that it truly does add an element of ease to the layout aisles without plugging and unplugging tethers as I move along with the trains.
Based on some other reading that I've done on the subject, it seems that most users of the wireless system seem quite pleased with how it works. I can't recall exactly where I read it, but NCE has really improved the response time of the Cab Control from the first generation of PH-Pro-R's to the second.
By comparison, the price difference between the tethered and wireless isn't too staggering, so I think that wireless may provide me with the functions, reliability, and ease of use that I'm looking for.
Thanks for all of the advice and opinions. It sure helps when you can talk to people who know what they are doing!
Yes, go wireless.
Just do it and get it out of the way then you can just concentrate on the fun of walking with the train.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Chris1 I can't recall exactly where I read it, but NCE has really improved the response time of the Cab Control from the first generation of PH-Pro-R's to the second.
I can't recall exactly where I read it, but NCE has really improved the response time of the Cab Control from the first generation of PH-Pro-R's to the second.
Chris, the response time is immediate. No perceivable difference between tethered and wireless.
I have the NCE Power Pro Radio with two throttles for my HO scale home layout, and we use the same system with five radio throttles at our large HO scale club layout.
Once you experience the freedom offered by radio throttles of not having to hunt for a place to plug in a throttle or get wires tangled up when two or more operators are in the same location and trying to use the same panel, you'd never consider tethered throttles.
I know that quite a few people I have spoken to have raved about the wireless system. I guess that with my extremely limited knowledge on radio/wireless applications, I wasn't sure if something like that would experience problems in a basement, where sometimes signals can be rather weak on other wireless household systems. But, I guess with the base unit firmly placed in a nice central spot, the signal is going to be pretty strong.
Has anyone had to purchase extra repeaters for their system?
I dont even have DCC,but i think Wireless is the way to go.
Russell
Chris1 I know that quite a few people I have spoken to have raved about the wireless system. I guess that with my extremely limited knowledge on radio/wireless applications, I wasn't sure if something like that would experience problems in a basement, where sometimes signals can be rather weak on other wireless household systems. But, I guess with the base unit firmly placed in a nice central spot, the signal is going to be pretty strong. Has anyone had to purchase extra repeaters for their system?
My layout is in the basement, and it is located beneath my family room, kitchen and the laundry room, two rooms with lots of appliances and electronics. The layout is L-shaped, measuring 25' x 42'. Off to the side of the layout is my furnace and two water heaters.
I have no signal interference problems whatsoever. I use no repeaters, just the RB02 base station and antenna. The base station and antenna sit on the top of the layout where the L-shape is formed. I have even operated the throttle below the surface of the layout, outside of a direct line to the antenna.
You should not need any repeaters.
One of the most frustrating things about the internet is how old information persists for so long. It has been some yearrs since NCE took corrective action for issues with radio reception. Yet here we are with existing users having to defend the current performance. If you are a Digitrax user you are more aware of this phenomena.
Well...I did it and am sure glad that I did!
I went out and purchased the PH-Pro-R, and am pretty excited to see how this little marvel works. Now begins the task of wiring, which doesn't seem to be all that difficult to do. I'll take my time with it, and work carefully.
Thanks to everyone that answered my questions on this topic. Once again, the MR forums are a proverbial lifesaver!
I'm looking forward to seeing something other than a bunch of parked trains on my layout!!!
Best Regards and Happy New Year
Congrats.
Come back to us with a full report.
Don't be in a rush and skip over steps in the instructions. If you follow them EXACTLY it absolutely will work, unless you got the unlucky one that once in a while slips past quality control. Skip a step in the wiring instructions and you may end up frustrated and chasing your tail around. It's NOT hard, really it's not, but there are some specifics of what needs to go where and what buttons need to be pressed.
Once going though, you'll wonder why you didn't do this sooner. Up until the time you accidently pull a Gomez Addams and have a cornfield meet.
I have one final bit of advice.
The next time that you build a 38' x 12' layout, wire your feeders periodically instead of installing all of your track first before installing any feeders.
I fear that you are going to run into problems along the way as you now wire up that very large layout.
As Randy says, take your time, testing as you go, so that any wiring problems become apparent as the work progresses.
It has also been my experience that very few feeders will actually power the entire layout, but don't be lulled into a false sense of complacency. Stick to your plan of wiring feeders at reasonable intervals. I have found that it makes sense to install feeders at the end of every leg of every turnout.
Thanks for all of the advice and helpful tips. As much as I would love to get the trains rolling, I'm going to take the wiring aspect extremely patiently and work methodically.
I've marked off the where the feeders will go by using small red and black push pins. I really took my time to make sure that I was going about things the right way as I wanted to ensure that things were going to be done right.
With no timeline for this part of the hobby, I'm going about things extremely slowly, making sure all of the bases are covered for some bulletproof trackwork.
Thanks again for all of the tips! The wiring endeavour begins this weekend.
This is one of the simplest questions to answer that comes up on this forum. Since you obviously can afford it (and many of us can, I'm not doing any whining or such here), go wireless from the start. As others have said, (1) for the size of layout that you have, the plugging and unplugging gets old, fast; (2) if you do it from the start, your savings on plug-in panels and the associated wiring will substantially offset the added cost of the wireless option.
Rich,
I, too, am thinking of going with the NCE Wireless system.
My layout is about 20 X 20 on two levels with a helix connecting them. I have two power districts and plan on two more. I'm using Digitrax DCS100 and DB150 Boosters. I'm trying to add a second booster but when I connect the Loconet cable to it I have problems with my throttle and the booster is not even connected to the track yet. I've swapped the boosters around and it doesn't help. Everything works fine with either boosters but when I connect the second the problem comes back. I have a DT400 and a DT402 and the numbers on the screen for a loco flash continuously no matter which numbers I press.
Anyway, the purpose of this reply is to ask if you have your layout divided into power districts with NCE boosters?
Thanks,
Yves
Ponoka, Alberta
Yves, not sure if you are addressing that question to me or richg1998, but I will tell you what I have done.
When I wrote my replies back in 2011, I had the PH-Pro 5 amp wireless system with a single booster, the NCE PB105.
At the time, I had not divided my layout into power districts.
However, since then, I have added a second booster, the NCE DB5, and I have divided my layout into four power districts, using PSX circuit breakers.
yvesmary Rich, I, too, am thinking of going with the NCE Wireless system. I have two power districts and plan on two more. I'm using Digitrax DCS100 and DB150 Boosters. I'm trying to add a second booster but when I connect the Loconet cable to it I have problems with my throttle and the booster is not even connected to the track yet. I've swapped the boosters around and it doesn't help. Everything works fine with either boosters but when I connect the second the problem comes back. I have a DT400 and a DT402 and the numbers on the screen for a loco flash continuously no matter which numbers I press. Anyway, the purpose of this reply is to ask if you have your layout divided into power districts with NCE boosters? Thanks, Yves Ponoka, Alberta
I have two power districts and plan on two more. I'm using Digitrax DCS100 and DB150 Boosters. I'm trying to add a second booster but when I connect the Loconet cable to it I have problems with my throttle and the booster is not even connected to the track yet. I've swapped the boosters around and it doesn't help. Everything works fine with either boosters but when I connect the second the problem comes back. I have a DT400 and a DT402 and the numbers on the screen for a loco flash continuously no matter which numbers I press.
I think you've mis-typed something here. Do you have a Digitrax or an NCE command station? You can use NCE boosters with the Digitrax system, but you are not going to be able to use any of the NCE wireless throttles with the Digitrax system.
Wait, you want to toss out your current system and switch because you are having problems plugging in a second booster? The most likely problem is that you are forgetting to add the jumper between Config A and Ground on the new booster to force it into being a booster and disable the command station functionality of the DV150. Or you have a bad loconet cable connecting them. Our club layout consists of one DCS100 and FIVE DB150's, all works fine.
Do you really run enough trains on that layout to need 15 amps of power, or are you just trying to set up power districts so a short in one area doesn't shut off the whole layout? You can do that with circuit breakers instead of more boosters and power supplies.
I have the Super Chief Digitrax system (2007) with the DCS100 command station and two DB150 boosters which are less than a year old. I have the original DT400 throttle and a DT402 for a spare in case.
I want to go wireless and hence thinking about the NCE system to replace my Digitrax.
Randy,
I've got everything wired up according to the book. This is several months old now. I've played with the Ops Switches, reset everything to default and start over and I'm just going around in circles now.
Everything works fine with the command station and ONE booster. But when I plug in the second booster (with the Loconet cable) I can't select a loco (tried both the DT400 and DT402). I've tried switching the boosters around but I get the same results. So I can't see that the boosters are at fault. The display shows Power 12.5V and stays there 'till I hit any key. Then the numbers where the selected loco is displayed (and it's not even a number I've ever entered) just stay flashing no matter what number key I press.
My bus wire is 12 gauge and feeders are 18 gauge. I've got 12 gauge for ground between units. My command station and boosters all have their own power supplies. Either Magna Force or NCE P515. I've tested the Loconet cables. I've swapped them all around and nothing changes.
I'm still building so have only been running one or two locos to test as I go along so I can't say I've overloaded the system.
The main reason for the power districts with boosters is I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around and while I probably wouldn't be running more than two trains at a time I might have to move locos around to get the unit(s) I want.
There's a thread on the Digitrax group about voltage readings between the various wires on the Loconet cable and I checked mine and they all seem to be where they should.
I've searched all over the Internet for answers but nothing has helped. There's nobody anywheres close to me that I can ask.
I've been thinking about going wireless and if I went with NCE I could start fresh.
Otherwise I don't know where to go next unless I stay with just one booster until I start having other problems.
Yes, it sounded like your layout was just a bit bigger than mine. I've got two levels connected by a helix in a space roughly 20 X 20.
I was wondering how many boosters I might need especially in my engine terminal where I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around. I wouldn't be running many trains but might have to move a lot of locos to get the unit(s) I want.
I have a peninsula in the middle coming out from both levels. I was thinking of putting the antenna on the ceiling over the peninsulas. Would there be a dead spot on the bottom peninsula?
I was also concerned about batteries for the throttle. Sometimes weeks go by when I don't have time to run trains and when I do I hate it when the batteries are dead or dying. Do you remove them? My little digital camera takes 4 AA's. If I leave them in there and don't use it for awhile it seems that I only get a few pictures before they go dead. Rechargeables are the worst. I can charge up a extra set but when you go to use them weeks or months later they're dead. And they take forever to charge up.
Thanks for your reply.
Yves,
I am not going to tell you to sell the Digitrax system, throttles and boosters. But, if you do, in favor of the NCE PH-Pro wireless system, you will not regret it. I chose NCE over Digitrax back in 2004, and I have no regrets whatsoever. The system is excellent, the customer service is beyond outstanding, and the support is awesome not only from NCE itself but also on the NCE-DCC forum on Yahoo Groups.