Priceline - not just for airlines and hotels anymore!
Now, if we could get Shatner to do a model railroading commercial...
I really need to find another dealer shutting down - that's how I got my DT402 and DB150, I bought a Super EMpire Builder Xtra set from a dealer who was retiring, at an amazing closeout price. Since my plan on my last layout was to drive the tracks with the 5 amps and use the 2.5 from my Zephyr to run the accessory decoders. Now that I am filling my basement, eventually, I figure a DCS100 for command station now, not that I will likely run more than 20, let alone 12 locos at once, unless I get op sessions organized. And being a much larger layout with more servo switch motors, a full 5 amps for the stationary decoder buss would probably be good, so DCS100 + 2x DB150, maybe 3 boosters, though I don;t think I will be able to have enough trains moving at once to tax 10 total amps.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Name your price, Randy !
Alton Junction
So, about all that Digitrax stuff you won't be needing...
The PB5 is the same booster as the PB105. The PB5 in fact replaces the PB105. Although the PB5 appears more expensive than the PB105, the PB5 includes its own power supply so it is actually cheaper than the PB105. If you already have a power supply, then buy the PB105 if you can still find it.
Rich
Rich and Mike,
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably add Circuit Breakers as you suggest.
So I went ahead and ordered the wireless system from the DCC Shop in Idaho. They're closest to me so the shipping was a lot less than from any other.
One last question. I want to add a booster and looking at the PB105 which is still available on many sites. Since I don't need a power supply it's a lot cheaper than the PB5 that comes with a power supply. Otherwise are they the same?
Cheers,
Yves
Ponoka, Alberta
yvesmary Rich, thanks for all the info. I use the PSX-AR on my reverse loops but I've never added any PSX circuit breakers. Running trains by myself, do I really need to add circuit breakers? Yves
Rich, thanks for all the info.
I use the PSX-AR on my reverse loops but I've never added any PSX circuit breakers.
Running trains by myself, do I really need to add circuit breakers?
For years, I ran my lone wolf layout with an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system with a single booster, no circuit breakers, and a tethered throttle arrangement.
But, I experienced a lot of problems and a lot frustrations. Although I operate as a lone wolf, I try to run a lot of locos and a lot of trains at one time. My layout measures 25' x 42' and is set up in an open-P arrangement. It is a double mainline, continuous loop with a large freight yard and engine servicing facility, a large downtown passenger station with an adjacent coach yard, and several sidings and spurs. There are four reversing sections on the layout, designed to reverse the directions of trains to simulate the actual movement of trains arriving and departing from points east and west into a freelanced Chicago-type setting.
The main problem that I encountered with this original setup was the complete stoppage of everything on the layout when an isolated derailment and/or short occurred somewhere on the layout. I had to locate the derailment or short, unplug the throttle from its location and plug it back in at the site of the derailment or short to get everything moving once again.
So, the first thing that I did was to add a wireless base station and antenna to free myself from the annoyances and limitations of a tethered system. What a tremendous advancement. I never looked back.
More recently, I decided to isolate derailments once and for all and keep the trains moving elsewhere on the layout once and for all. So, I divided the layout into four separate power districts, the mainlines, the engine servicing facility, the downtown passenger station/coach yard, and a diesel servicing facility, each power district protected by a PSX circuit breaker.
That, in and of itself, was a major improvement, in that a derailment or short in one power district was easily isolated and readily located without stopping the movement of trains operating on the mainlines.
The reason that I added a second booster was that I wanted to further isolate the four reversing sections. Each reversing section on my layout is a section of track controlled by a PSX-AR, so I made each reversing section into its own power district. That works because the PSX-AR acts as both an auto-reverser and a circuit breaker. To provide better power distribution, I added the second booster and wired the three reversing sections, controlled by PSX-AR units, to the second booster.
The entire system operates flawlessly.
Well said, Mike.
I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Yves,
Rich will be back, but until then I'll also sing the praises of NCE.His opinion on the circuit breakers etc may be different, too. I find them useful, but I run 2 or 3 trains at once often enough, plus have ops sessions with half a dozen others enough to make it worthwhile. It's really not so much the expense of buying them as it is the hassle of rewiring your power feeds so they each feed a discrete zone via each CB. Well worth it for me.
Mind you, if you have tried it and the NCE just worked better for you, it's a common experience. Not so much because one is inherently better than the other, but because you either relate to the equipment or not. Some folks are Digitrax people and some are NCE...or something else. But this is an area where your preferences are really important to just feeling comfortable with it, so this is very important. It's also not a diss on anyone else's system.
Yeah, if it's just you, the need for breakers is less than it would automatically be with more ops. Just not so many folks getting into trouble. On the other hand, depending on your operating tastes, the state of your track, and how many trains you might be able to runs simultaneously, there's still potential for shorts. Circuit breakers simply slice the layout into smaller sections, so that when a short triggers a shutdown, the neighboring zones aren't affected. If you'll only ever run 1 to 3 trains, less need for the CBs. If the shorts from what you run don't interfere with your other trains yet, then you're probably good without them.
But it's also the case that if you have that limited a demand, then the command station and an extra 5 amp booster are likely more than enough juice. Unless you have multiple trains running under heavy load, you'll never need the third booster. This simplifies your bus wiring some if that's still an issue, if you can locate the two -- command station and booster in the middle of things, run a bus one way from one and the other way from the other. If you're like me and already have a long continuous bus (I had two DC busses and just used one for DCC), then it's easy to cut it in the middle to do this, so requires little modification usuaully to your existing set-up.
One option is to just go with the command station for now, put it in the middle and feed the bus as a T. Then all that's needed is to install a booster and split the bus when you're ready for the upgrade.
As for wireless, well worth it IMO. I still have a wired network for emregency plugin and to suppport use of my non-radio PowerCab, but I never find a need for the emergency plug in really. The NCE wireless has been absolutely bullet-proof for me since they did the big upgrade about 5 years back. No worries about investing in it and going cordless is great.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
yvesmary Rich, Yes, it sounded like your layout was just a bit bigger than mine. I've got two levels connected by a helix in a space roughly 20 X 20. I was wondering how many boosters I might need especially in my engine terminal where I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around. I wouldn't be running many trains but might have to move a lot of locos to get the unit(s) I want. I have a peninsula in the middle coming out from both levels. I was thinking of putting the antenna on the ceiling over the peninsulas. Would there be a dead spot on the bottom peninsula? I was also concerned about batteries for the throttle. Sometimes weeks go by when I don't have time to run trains and when I do I hate it when the batteries are dead or dying. Do you remove them? My little digital camera takes 4 AA's. If I leave them in there and don't use it for awhile it seems that I only get a few pictures before they go dead. Rechargeables are the worst. I can charge up a extra set but when you go to use them weeks or months later they're dead. And they take forever to charge up. Thanks for your reply. Yves Ponoka, Alberta
Rich,
Yes, it sounded like your layout was just a bit bigger than mine. I've got two levels connected by a helix in a space roughly 20 X 20.
I was wondering how many boosters I might need especially in my engine terminal where I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around. I wouldn't be running many trains but might have to move a lot of locos to get the unit(s) I want.
I have a peninsula in the middle coming out from both levels. I was thinking of putting the antenna on the ceiling over the peninsulas. Would there be a dead spot on the bottom peninsula?
I was also concerned about batteries for the throttle. Sometimes weeks go by when I don't have time to run trains and when I do I hate it when the batteries are dead or dying. Do you remove them? My little digital camera takes 4 AA's. If I leave them in there and don't use it for awhile it seems that I only get a few pictures before they go dead. Rechargeables are the worst. I can charge up a extra set but when you go to use them weeks or months later they're dead. And they take forever to charge up.
Thanks for your reply.
Yves, with a 20' x 20' layout on two levels and a lot of loco action, you could justify two boosters, one in the command station and one additional booster, a DB5 or an SB5. My power requirements did not truly warrant a second booster, but when I decided to split the layout into a series of separate power districts, I added the second booster for convenience as much as anything. It just made maintenance and diagnostics that much easier.
I leave my wireless base station and antenna at layout surface level, but I plan to move it to the basement ceiling for even better reception, especially when Programming on the Main. You should not experience any dead spots with the arrangement that you describe.
I do not remove the batteries from the throttles when not in use. Each ProCab throttle takes 4 AAA batteries. I track battery life on a piece of tape on each of my two throttles. I went down to take a look. The average battery life ranges from 9 months to 12 months. I just toss them and replace them, no rechargeables for me.
I use PSX circuit breakers and PSX-AR reversers from DCC Specialties. I run three power districts, each protected by a PSX circuit breaker, on one booster. The other booster protects an additional power district protected by a fourth PSX, plus three reversing sections each protected by a PSX-AR.
I am not going to tell you to sell the Digitrax system, throttles and boosters. But, if you do, in favor of the NCE PH-Pro wireless system, you will not regret it. I chose NCE over Digitrax back in 2004, and I have no regrets whatsoever. The system is excellent, the customer service is beyond outstanding, and the support is awesome not only from NCE itself but also on the NCE-DCC forum on Yahoo Groups.
Randy,
I've got everything wired up according to the book. This is several months old now. I've played with the Ops Switches, reset everything to default and start over and I'm just going around in circles now.
Everything works fine with the command station and ONE booster. But when I plug in the second booster (with the Loconet cable) I can't select a loco (tried both the DT400 and DT402). I've tried switching the boosters around but I get the same results. So I can't see that the boosters are at fault. The display shows Power 12.5V and stays there 'till I hit any key. Then the numbers where the selected loco is displayed (and it's not even a number I've ever entered) just stay flashing no matter what number key I press.
My bus wire is 12 gauge and feeders are 18 gauge. I've got 12 gauge for ground between units. My command station and boosters all have their own power supplies. Either Magna Force or NCE P515. I've tested the Loconet cables. I've swapped them all around and nothing changes.
I'm still building so have only been running one or two locos to test as I go along so I can't say I've overloaded the system.
The main reason for the power districts with boosters is I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around and while I probably wouldn't be running more than two trains at a time I might have to move locos around to get the unit(s) I want.
There's a thread on the Digitrax group about voltage readings between the various wires on the Loconet cable and I checked mine and they all seem to be where they should.
I've searched all over the Internet for answers but nothing has helped. There's nobody anywheres close to me that I can ask.
I've been thinking about going wireless and if I went with NCE I could start fresh.
Otherwise I don't know where to go next unless I stay with just one booster until I start having other problems.
I have the Super Chief Digitrax system (2007) with the DCS100 command station and two DB150 boosters which are less than a year old. I have the original DT400 throttle and a DT402 for a spare in case.
I want to go wireless and hence thinking about the NCE system to replace my Digitrax.
Wait, you want to toss out your current system and switch because you are having problems plugging in a second booster? The most likely problem is that you are forgetting to add the jumper between Config A and Ground on the new booster to force it into being a booster and disable the command station functionality of the DV150. Or you have a bad loconet cable connecting them. Our club layout consists of one DCS100 and FIVE DB150's, all works fine.
Do you really run enough trains on that layout to need 15 amps of power, or are you just trying to set up power districts so a short in one area doesn't shut off the whole layout? You can do that with circuit breakers instead of more boosters and power supplies.
yvesmary Rich, I, too, am thinking of going with the NCE Wireless system. I have two power districts and plan on two more. I'm using Digitrax DCS100 and DB150 Boosters. I'm trying to add a second booster but when I connect the Loconet cable to it I have problems with my throttle and the booster is not even connected to the track yet. I've swapped the boosters around and it doesn't help. Everything works fine with either boosters but when I connect the second the problem comes back. I have a DT400 and a DT402 and the numbers on the screen for a loco flash continuously no matter which numbers I press. Anyway, the purpose of this reply is to ask if you have your layout divided into power districts with NCE boosters? Thanks, Yves Ponoka, Alberta
I, too, am thinking of going with the NCE Wireless system.
I have two power districts and plan on two more. I'm using Digitrax DCS100 and DB150 Boosters. I'm trying to add a second booster but when I connect the Loconet cable to it I have problems with my throttle and the booster is not even connected to the track yet. I've swapped the boosters around and it doesn't help. Everything works fine with either boosters but when I connect the second the problem comes back. I have a DT400 and a DT402 and the numbers on the screen for a loco flash continuously no matter which numbers I press.
Anyway, the purpose of this reply is to ask if you have your layout divided into power districts with NCE boosters?
Thanks,
I think you've mis-typed something here. Do you have a Digitrax or an NCE command station? You can use NCE boosters with the Digitrax system, but you are not going to be able to use any of the NCE wireless throttles with the Digitrax system.
Yves, not sure if you are addressing that question to me or richg1998, but I will tell you what I have done.
When I wrote my replies back in 2011, I had the PH-Pro 5 amp wireless system with a single booster, the NCE PB105.
At the time, I had not divided my layout into power districts.
However, since then, I have added a second booster, the NCE DB5, and I have divided my layout into four power districts, using PSX circuit breakers.
My layout is about 20 X 20 on two levels with a helix connecting them. I have two power districts and plan on two more. I'm using Digitrax DCS100 and DB150 Boosters. I'm trying to add a second booster but when I connect the Loconet cable to it I have problems with my throttle and the booster is not even connected to the track yet. I've swapped the boosters around and it doesn't help. Everything works fine with either boosters but when I connect the second the problem comes back. I have a DT400 and a DT402 and the numbers on the screen for a loco flash continuously no matter which numbers I press.
This is one of the simplest questions to answer that comes up on this forum. Since you obviously can afford it (and many of us can, I'm not doing any whining or such here), go wireless from the start. As others have said, (1) for the size of layout that you have, the plugging and unplugging gets old, fast; (2) if you do it from the start, your savings on plug-in panels and the associated wiring will substantially offset the added cost of the wireless option.
Thanks for all of the advice and helpful tips. As much as I would love to get the trains rolling, I'm going to take the wiring aspect extremely patiently and work methodically.
I've marked off the where the feeders will go by using small red and black push pins. I really took my time to make sure that I was going about things the right way as I wanted to ensure that things were going to be done right.
With no timeline for this part of the hobby, I'm going about things extremely slowly, making sure all of the bases are covered for some bulletproof trackwork.
Thanks again for all of the tips! The wiring endeavour begins this weekend.
Chris
Chris,
I have one final bit of advice.
The next time that you build a 38' x 12' layout, wire your feeders periodically instead of installing all of your track first before installing any feeders.
I fear that you are going to run into problems along the way as you now wire up that very large layout.
As Randy says, take your time, testing as you go, so that any wiring problems become apparent as the work progresses.
It has also been my experience that very few feeders will actually power the entire layout, but don't be lulled into a false sense of complacency. Stick to your plan of wiring feeders at reasonable intervals. I have found that it makes sense to install feeders at the end of every leg of every turnout.
Don't be in a rush and skip over steps in the instructions. If you follow them EXACTLY it absolutely will work, unless you got the unlucky one that once in a while slips past quality control. Skip a step in the wiring instructions and you may end up frustrated and chasing your tail around. It's NOT hard, really it's not, but there are some specifics of what needs to go where and what buttons need to be pressed.
Once going though, you'll wonder why you didn't do this sooner. Up until the time you accidently pull a Gomez Addams and have a cornfield meet.
Congrats.
Come back to us with a full report.
Well...I did it and am sure glad that I did!
I went out and purchased the PH-Pro-R, and am pretty excited to see how this little marvel works. Now begins the task of wiring, which doesn't seem to be all that difficult to do. I'll take my time with it, and work carefully.
Thanks to everyone that answered my questions on this topic. Once again, the MR forums are a proverbial lifesaver!
I'm looking forward to seeing something other than a bunch of parked trains on my layout!!!
Best Regards and Happy New Year
One of the most frustrating things about the internet is how old information persists for so long. It has been some yearrs since NCE took corrective action for issues with radio reception. Yet here we are with existing users having to defend the current performance. If you are a Digitrax user you are more aware of this phenomena.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Chris1 I know that quite a few people I have spoken to have raved about the wireless system. I guess that with my extremely limited knowledge on radio/wireless applications, I wasn't sure if something like that would experience problems in a basement, where sometimes signals can be rather weak on other wireless household systems. But, I guess with the base unit firmly placed in a nice central spot, the signal is going to be pretty strong. Has anyone had to purchase extra repeaters for their system?
I know that quite a few people I have spoken to have raved about the wireless system. I guess that with my extremely limited knowledge on radio/wireless applications, I wasn't sure if something like that would experience problems in a basement, where sometimes signals can be rather weak on other wireless household systems. But, I guess with the base unit firmly placed in a nice central spot, the signal is going to be pretty strong.
Has anyone had to purchase extra repeaters for their system?
My layout is in the basement, and it is located beneath my family room, kitchen and the laundry room, two rooms with lots of appliances and electronics. The layout is L-shaped, measuring 25' x 42'. Off to the side of the layout is my furnace and two water heaters.
I have no signal interference problems whatsoever. I use no repeaters, just the RB02 base station and antenna. The base station and antenna sit on the top of the layout where the L-shape is formed. I have even operated the throttle below the surface of the layout, outside of a direct line to the antenna.
You should not need any repeaters.
I dont even have DCC,but i think Wireless is the way to go.
Russell
I have the NCE Power Pro Radio with two throttles for my HO scale home layout, and we use the same system with five radio throttles at our large HO scale club layout.
Once you experience the freedom offered by radio throttles of not having to hunt for a place to plug in a throttle or get wires tangled up when two or more operators are in the same location and trying to use the same panel, you'd never consider tethered throttles.